Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 April 6

= April 6 =

Twenty sensible questions?
After I posted some questions from New Era Publications who sell Scientology materials they have sent me 20 more. How should one respond to these?

1. Have you ever become frustrated because dealing with the “wrong” person in doing a job for you?

2. Or what about the hours of wasted time trying to come up with an “agreement” with an individual that was below 2.0 on the Tone scale - and you didn't spot this in time?

3. How can you conclude a deal with someone on 1.1 or apathy? Is it actually possible?

4. How do you recognize the tone of a person with only a handshake?

5. Or, what do you need to know about a person who is too fat?

6. How do you know when you have just spoken with a person who is 1.1?

7. How do you sell to people at different tone levels, i.e. cover hostility, apathy, boredom, antagonism etc…?

8. Do beings have different theta “peculiar capabilities” or are we basically all the same?

9. How does reactivity affect the performance of the individual at work?

10. How can you predict a person's honesty, ethics level, persistence and responsibility level?

11. Why does a businessman need to know the tech of Human Evaluation?

12. What is the importance of goals and ideals to survival?

13. What does the ability to conquest the physical universe have to do with a thetan's tone level?

14. How can you introduce someone to Scientology very easily?

15. How does the individual handle truth at various points on the tone scale?

16. How would you like to know how a thetan creates the MEST universe?

17. What is energy?

18. How does a thetan use his mind and body to operate and control motion and MEST?

20. How would you like to know how to tell a person's tone level from the condition of his belongings?

21. How would you like to find out what the true cause of anxiety is?

(I added numbers for easy reference to the questions and some links to help with the Co$ jargon.) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 00:16, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * If there are 20 sensible questions, which one is the crazy one ? :-) StuRat (talk) 00:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotta be number 14. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * These questions can only be answered by the Scientology organisation since only they actually use the terms involved. If you want to know the answers, you need to join Scientology. You may wish to research the organisation and find out about the harassment, fraud and general nonsense they spout before handing over any cash, though... If you do, don't expect the answers to actually make sense. --Tango (talk) 00:58, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sure it all makes sense to a "Cleared Theta Clear". StuRat (talk) 01:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I kept waiting for the question, "And hast thou slain the jabberwock, my son?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * DFTT: One should ignore them and hope they stop sending you annoying junkmail. SteveBaker (talk) 01:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Has anyone ever tried to take their tests and things with no intention of joining, just to mess with them? It seems like the kind of nonsense that any sensible person could easily reject. Or are they so good at it that that would completely backfire? Adam Bishop (talk) 15:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * They seem to have a strategy of only telling you the logical parts, like improving your life by getting off drugs and alcohol, at first, and leaving the really wacky stuff until you are into them for thousands of dollars and many years of your life. StuRat (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll confess, I took their introductory quiz once, just out of curiosity. I scored 9/10 across the board, and decided that any organization which would hold me up as a near ideal has deep and serious problems.    -- Ludwigs 2  20:02, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are Americans so gullable? 78.147.35.82 (talk) 19:54, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know. If I send you all my credit card account numbers, could you tell me ? StuRat (talk) 20:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Why are non-Americans so condescending and dismissive of Americans? -- Jayron  32  20:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * See the questions at the top of the thread. On the other hand, many Americans can at least spell "gullible". Matt Deres (talk) 20:31, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Why do Britons have such a penchant for sweeping, uncharitable generalizations? And why are Britons so insulting?  Marco polo (talk) 20:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Centuries of assiduous practice, dear boy :^). 87.81.230.195 (talk) 23:01, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why do faulty generalizations deserve responses in kind? ---Sluzzelin talk  20:47, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Dear God - Forgive me - mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa - I actually read this question - AND its responses. Deo Gracias. 92.30.40.36 (talk) 23:38, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm clobbering this off topic banter. You're lucky I don't collapse the crap above it too.  If you're not going to give a reasonable answer, don't respond. Buddy431 (talk) 00:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

1. yes/no answer 2. yes/no answer 3. Assuming 1.1 refers to covert hostility on the tone scale, yes, people make deals all the time with hostile parties with diplomacy. (ex. Obama's health care reform). If they are apathetic either seal the deal yourself, get a representative to speak for their behalf, or pester them until they go through whatever motions are necessary. 4. Presumably by correlating "tone" with a (hopefully) accurate first impression. Read their body language, observe their dress, and listen to what their saying and how they say it... 5. See Obesity. 6. They were covertly hostile towards you. 7. The same way you sell anything to anyone - tailor your sales pitch to the person. 8. Unproven supposition thetans exist. 9. Assuming reactivity refers to the Reactive mind, this question has a false premise. All of those things listed on the WP page have proven non-somatoform eitologies, assuming the subject doesn't actually have Somatoform disorder. That said, having various mental and physical ailments tends to negatively impact work performance. 10. If you could, con-artists wouldn't exist. 11. They don't. 12. Human behavioral ecology, Evolutionary ethics, Sociobiology. 13. Unproven supposition thetans exist. 14. Send them bizarre questionnaires. 15. Covariance = 0 16. Personally, I'm not interested, also unproven supposition thetans exist. 17. A quantity. 18. Unproven supposition thetans exist. 19. Personally, I'm not interested, since I don't think the tone scale has any value or basis in human psychology. 20. I'm not interested because I already know what causes anxiety: stress, uneasiness, apprehension, fear, worry- reactions to threats that are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable. 23:50, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm impressed with question 7 actually predicting the responses it will get on here. As for question 5,it's obvious-what we REALLY need to know about fatties is...is it possible to bounce up and down on them like a trampoline? Lemon martini (talk) 00:18, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Blacksmith
What is the difference between an ordinary blacksmith and a master blacksmith?--79.76.156.101 (talk) 01:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There's this WikiAnswer FWIW, according to which, you're looking at 10+ years of training and the approval of your guild. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The size of the anvil ? :-) StuRat (talk) 02:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, the muscles of your brawny arms must be strong as rubber bands. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:22, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I dont understand the above answer: is it some sort of weak joke? --79.76.156.101 (talk) 05:49, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a parody of a line from this famous poem. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Specifically, by Bullwinkle J. Moose when he was reading Longfellow's poem in the Rocky and Bullwinkle feature called "Bullwinkle's Corner". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The poem says muscles strong as iron bands not rubber bands. So again its not only not funny, but its not an accurate quote. And the poem does not refer to the fact of his being a skilled man. --79.76.239.84 (talk) 02:42, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Bullwinkle said "...rubber bands", Rocky whispered "Iron bands!" to him, Bullwinkle flexed his puny biceps, and Rocky conceded, "Rubber bands!" Get back to us when your sense of humor is out of Intensive Care. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:47, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have a sense of humor: but just not yours. Im not familiar with Bullwinkle so the the joke fell on stony ground. Thats the trouble with jokes: it depends on the recipient having the same knowledge as the joker.--79.76.239.84 (talk) 23:49, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a prime example of a *cough, cough* master smith. I couldn't find the Porky Pig rendition. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be th-th-this one: ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, I mean this one, or is that clip part of it? If I remember correctly, Porky gives a once-in-a-lifetime (that's how long it would take him) reading of the poem. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

So we could have someone who prepares and deals with bait and may be known as a baiter,and if he were to fit the qualifications(guild membership or self-employed,employing others)he would be...;) Lemon martini (talk) 00:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC) who is very easily amused
 * Only if he went at it hammer and tongs.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.236.198 (talk) 17:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)


 * See Master craftsman for the general sense of "master" meant here. Specifics probably vary by country. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:41, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Today the term Master is often used to distinguish a craftsman who is self-employed and employees others. My father was a Master Butcher, without any Guild membership.Froggie34 (talk) 06:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Selling a found cell phone
I found a Blackberry. The phone is disconnected and I do not know who the owner is. Can I sell the phone on eBay without any reprocussions? --67.134.239.205 (talk) 15:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Almost certainly depends where you are. In Britain, the Theft Act 1968 (as amended) requires that you genuinely believe "that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps" – which in your case is highly unlikely, because if you hand it in at a police station, someone who's lost £100s of technology is likely to go looking for it. ╟─ Treasury Tag ►  constabulary  ─╢ 15:26, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The OP is in New Jersey  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 22:48, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

You should send this to "lost and found" at your local police station. They will hold it for a set period of time and (depending on where you are) if nobody claims it within a set period you may be allowed to become the owner of it. We cannot offer legal advice so you are strongly advised to speak with your local police (obviously don't dial 999/911 find a local number for them!) and they will advise you of the best process to follow. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note that not all jurisdictions give lost property back to those who found it if unclaimed. The police station in my home town (in the US) was notorious about keeping it and auctioning it off itself. This provoked outcry—it demotivates people to report lost property, obviously—but was not illegal in any way. (I don't know if it still does this today—knowing them, it probably does.) --Mr.98 (talk) 16:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by "disconnected"? There should probably still be owner information on it even if it does not make calls. Look in the contact book for a phone number for "Mom". Try looking under Options > Owner. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * If it is a contract phone then the network should be able to identify who the handset belongs to through its IMEI number. Even if it's pre-paid, there may be some authority with which it needs to be registered that will enable the owner to be identified. Failing all that, as mentioned above, it is reasonable that an entry such as "Home", "Mom", "Dad" or "ICE" would exist in the phonebook. Last resort would be to contact the network to identify which were the last dialled numbers from that phone, or even what the number of the last SIM card inserted into the phone was (if such information is kept on record). In short, it is very hard NOT to identify who a lost phone belongs to. Zunaid 20:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note that eBay does not permit the sale of stolen items and has a specific policy whereby it will cooperate with the authorities if an investigation is launched. If you sell or attempt to sell the phone on eBay rather than making reasonable attempts to trace the owner (which may count as theft, depending on your jurisdiction, as discussed above), then you may fall foul of that policy too.  Ka renjc 18:17, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't assume that the owner of the phone does not know its whereabouts. One tech-savvy person had a phone stolen recently, and tracked its location via GPS software. The police recovered it, and made arrests. This sort of recovery of property will only become more common. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:39, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Orientation in space
Hello, Wikipedians. This question concerns a problem of the Star Trek variety! I'd love to know what system one might use, in order to convey verbal directions to a point in 3D space? For instance, when LaForge says there's an incoming Klingon vessel, it might be at "302.20". Disregarding any notion that the script-writers used anything but made up numbers, how can one provide directions in space?

It is true that, say, a holografic representation of the situation, within a frame of reference (whatever it might be; own ship, planet, sun, etc) would be most likely to convey good situational awareness. What I am asking for is a system of conveying 3D space coordinates verbally, where the one most easily adapted by humans (intuitive while precise, etc) can be deemed most successful.

Fighter pilots actually employ a system that is half relevant to this query, one relatively straining on the mind: A radar operator will call out a target's position relative to a predetermined spot on a map, called Bullseye: 45 50 to make the target NE, 50nm out. Onboard, the fighter pilot has an instrument that tells him his own position relative to Bullseye. He must then work out where he is, relative to the target. This, I think, can be a decent benchmark on mental capability. But I digress!

I would be very thankful, were you to invest your time and intellectual effort on this question. Thank you in advance. 88.90.16.251 (talk) 18:25, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Astronomers use the equatorial coordinate system for this purpose, that is two orthogonal angles expressed relative to the celestial sphere. Out in some random part of the galaxy, you'd need a different reference. Fighter pilots (at least in old films) use a system relative to the orientation of their own flight ("nine'o'clock high"). Alternatively you could establish an arbitrary system based on fixed points - the Pioneer plaque described the position of the Sun with respect to a number of pulsars, each of which has an idiosyncratic cadence. But the Enterprise's preternatural speed makes for serious problems for such a celestial system, as those standard markers move and evolve with time, and you see them in radically different positions depending on where you are (because you're seeing with light); that doesn't matter much for ordinary travellers, but things are downright weird for the supralight Enterprise. A number of Star Trek references, including Wikibooks, simply say the Enterprise uses "Starmark Warp Celestial Guidance".  As an alternative to an external reference, you could carry with you an internal inertial reference (based on super-accurate gyroscopes); every ship in the fleet gets their own one that was synchronised against the standard one in San Francisco. Again the unscience of Star Trek, with its relativity-flouting and its inertial dampening makes how these might work anyone's guess. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 18:46, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * In Star Trek they use two systems. Bearings, which are relative to the centre of the galaxy, and headings, which are relative to the direction the ship is facing. In both cases, it's a form of spherical coordinates. --Tango (talk) 18:59, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * (Edit conflict with Tango)
 * Well, in Star Trek they're theoretically either using two-part bearings relative to the ship (Yaw, then pitch), or three-part coordinates in a system that is never really explained, but seems to be relative to Earth.
 * However, even when they give bearings, they often give ones that don't really make sense, and/or don't correspond to the special effects shots. APL (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There is one episode where LaForge says there is "a bogey on a five o'clock tangent." Maybe the universal translator fixed that for the rest of the crew... Adam Bishop (talk) 19:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Related question for all editors: What's the name of the "three o'clock" system that pilots use?  A quick Google didn't come up with a term for the system, and I couldn't find a Wikipedia article on it.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:35, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I am pretty sure they are just called "clock face directions". We lack a wikipedia article titled "clock face directions" perhaps because of the self-evident nature of the system, but a Wikipedia search turns up variations of the phrase "clockface directions" or "clock-face directions" or "clock face directions" used in this context in several articles.  -- Jayron  32  20:13, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The Memory Alpha article on navigation might be of interest to the OP. Dismas |(talk) 00:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The OP (me) thanks all for their input and answers, but this is not about Star Trek. I likely should have known better than to bring up that example with LaForge. I've boldened the part of the OP which is important: The approach to verbally provided directions in three-dimensional space; up, down, left, right only go so far. Consider this poor example, if you will: A sphere is seen from its center; directions are provided by adressing individual manifolds (estimations of directions) on the inside surface of this sphere. For instance, were we to denote these manifolds by use of the old degrees, we could have the target be "straight ahead, 45 degrees up", this becomes "360, 45". We then get 270-360-090 = W(est)-N-E or Left-Ahead-Right. On the vertical plane, all values between 000-090 are up from the ship, 090-180 is down on that plane. This is a way of verbally providing these directions. 88.90.16.251 (talk) 01:18, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You use spherical coordinates or a related system, which is basically what you are describing. You have a choice of where to put zero and what direction to consider positive, but what you describe is a common way. The main choice is whether you consider zero to mean North (one would usually say 0 rather than 360, although they mean the same thing) or to mean forwards. The former is used when plotting a course, say, the latter is used when saying where to look for a nearby aircraft or something. --Tango (talk) 01:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * There are also cylindrical coordinates and Cartesian coordinates (x,y,z). All systems would require at least 3 non-collinear reference points to use in establishing direction and orientation. StuRat (talk) 02:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That Memory Alpha article is pretty terrible. But the spherical, ship-centered bearings at least sometimes used on Star Trek TNG would probably be the best way to specify positions in space if they're near your ship.  Doing it for things halfway across the galaxy is trickier, because not only to you need a commonly agreed upon reference frame, you need a high degree of accuracy. APL (talk) 03:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Atomic Rocket is a wonderful resource for all sorts of science fictiony (with an emphasis on the science) stuff about spaceflight. Sadly, their astrogation page seems to talk about everything that's adjacent to your question without answering it!  There's even a sister project about starmaps that also doesn't relate.  But if you're interested in this question, I bet you're interested in the stuff they do cover.  Paul (Stansifer) 03:34, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Wikinews
Is it true that the first WikiNews interviewee who died was Gene Amondson? --William Saturn (talk) 23:19, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Renting work animals
Is there an online registry of rental businesses from which I can rent pigs for plowing the garden, and sheep or goats for mowing the lawn? (I do not mean that a pig would pull a plow, as an ox or a horse might do, but that the pig itself is a plow.) -- Wavelength (talk) 23:40, 6 April 2010 (UTC) I have found the following pages with background information. The last one of those says that http://goatfinder.com/ "rents out grass-munchers", but the title bar of http://goatfinder.com/ says "Free Nationwide Listing Of Goats For Sale - GoatFinder.com". -- Wavelength (talk) 02:58, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.richsoil.com/pigs/; http://www.round-river.com/pigplowing.html; http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_pig.html
 * http://www.seattlepi.com/local/319789_goats14.html; http://www.allaboutlawns.com/blog/are-farm-animals-a-lawn-mower-alternative.html
 * http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/gardening/earth-friendly-ways-to-mow-the-grass.htm
 * http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/sheep-goats-electric-mowers-tending-a-sustainable-lawn/Content?oid=1209758
 * I found http://www.goatfinder.com/renting_goats.htm ("Renting Goats Directory - GoatFinder.com").
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 16:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there anything like that in the UK? I have quite a large garden that could be either 'mown' or 'ploughed' but I do not want the responsibility of looking after them. 92.29.42.231 (talk) 10:32, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I found http://www.rbst.org.uk/stock-exchange/ and http://www.emmaspigs.co.uk/PigKeepingCourse.shtml.
 * -- Wavelength (talk) 16:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)