Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 August 24

= August 24 =

Australian politics
Julia Gillard was said to have won the "two party preferred" vote: What does this mean?Milwhee (talk) 06:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * We have an article on it, but in my opinion it is explained rather more clearly here.--Rallette (talk) 07:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It should also be noted that Julia Gillard did not really win the two-party preferred. What it is effectively saying is that, after preferences, Labor party members (who would support a government formed by Julia Gillard) attracted more votes than Liberal party members across all electorates for the lower house. 124.171.201.251 (talk) 08:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The OP's terminology is understandable, given the way Australian elections have become presidentialised of recent years. The media's focus is overwhelmingly on the party leaders, as if every voter in Australia personally casts a vote for these people.  That's not how it works in a Westminster parliamentary system.  But you'd never know it to hear people talk about how they were going to vote: it was all about Gillard this vs. Abbott that, not about Labor's policies vs. the Coalition's polices.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   11:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know that much about the Australian electoral system, but surely both Gillard and Abbott did win the two party preferred vote otherwise they would be in the embarassing position Howard was in last time? Nil Einne (talk) 23:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the point I was making is that it's parties that win or lose elections, not their leaders (not that the leaders can't share some, or a lot, of the glory/shame, but a leader without a party is nothing). Last time, the Coalition lost the election outright (and PM Howard lost his own seat to boot); the 2-party preferred figure was irrelevant given the decisiveness of the Rudd victory, which saw Labor winning an absolute majority of lower house seats.  This time, neither side has an absolute majority, hence the horse trading that's now going to see whether either side can establish a workable arrangement with the Greens/independents for a stable government.  Various factors are being brought in to the equation this time, including the 2-party preferred figures vs. the raw votes for either side, in an attempt to convince those holding the balance of power of the rightness of the major parties' respective causes.  By definition, only one party can win the 2-party preferred vote, unless they happen to coincidentally be exactly the same figure, which they're not in this instance.  But at the end of the day, the 2-party preferred figure will play second fiddle to the magic number 76; that's an absolute majority of the 150 seats in the House of Reps, and the party that can cobble together that many votes gets to form the next government.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 06:25, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * My point was that while only one party can win the 2 party preferred vote in the general election, in each seat one candidate does/has to win the two party preferred vote (two candidate preferred vote if you wish) and that must be the leaders in each of their respective seats otherwise they wouldn't be in parliament and so what their parties did would arguably be moot from their perspective (even if their parties won 149/150 seats, they still wouldn't be able to form a government until and unless they won a seat in a byelection). Nil Einne (talk) 21:56, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we’re talking at cross-purposes. When people say “I’m voting for Gillard”, what they mean in 99% of cases is “I’m voting for the Labor Party” (and likewise for the others).  It’s only the people who live in Gillard’s own electorate (the Division of Lalor in Victoria) who get to vote for her directly, but even then they vote for her as their local MP, not for her as the Prime Minister as such.  This popular merging of the party name with the party leader’s name (there’s a linguistic term for this, which escapes me right now) is what I’m sure the OP has also done, because the 2PP vote makes most sense at the national level.  You’re dead right, though, that a party leader has to win their own seat to be capable of leading their party in the next parliament.  But I’m sure this is not what the OP was on about.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 04:43, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate all that (from the beginning), I was simply pointing out they did win the 2PP in their seats no matter what people may say about the general electorate (hence the small). Sorry if it wasn't obvious enough. Nil Einne (talk) 10:15, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

German 1910 Census
I wish to locate the census for the Memel area (Klaipeda)which I understand was carried out as part of the German Empire in 1910. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.94.3 (talk) 08:09, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Your task is not an easy one. These numbers exist, but not online.  The main problem is that the Memel area was not defined as such in 1910.  It was not separated from the German Empire until after World War I. Before the Treaty of Versailles defined this region in 1920, it was part of the Province of East Prussia in the Kingdom of Prussia.  It is possible to find the population of East Prussia as a whole in 1910 online, but not of the region that later became the Memel area.  Within East Prussia, the region that later became the Memel area lay within four different Landkreise (counties or districts): Memel, Heydeburg, Tilsit, and Ragnit.  I have not been able to find the populations of these Landkreise in 1910 online, but even if I could, this would not solve your problem, because only parts of the Heydeburg, Tilsit, and Ragnit Landkreise later became part of the Memel area.  Parts of these three Landkreise remained within East Prussia and Germany after 1920, until 1945.  (I believe that all of the Memel Landkreis became part of the Memel area in 1920.)  So, even if you could find numbers for the four Landkreise I've listed, you'd have the population for a larger area than was later included in the Memel area.  So, you'd have to research exactly which communes or municipalities were later made part of the Memel area.  I am guessing that around 100 municipalities (mostly small villages) were involved.  Then you'd have to locate archived records of the Statistisches Reichsamt, which performed the census.  I believe that these records are housed in the Bundesarchiv Berlin-Lichterfelde in Berlin.  Good luck.  Marco polo (talk) 14:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, I see that your IP address geolocates to London. You might check with local research libraries, such as the British Library or the library of the London School of Economics, to see whether they have those census records.  Some web searching suggested that German census records might also be housed at the Bodleian Library, though of course you'd want to confirm that with a librarian before setting out for Oxford.  Marco polo (talk) 14:45, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Plumbing - wc
there is a standing pipe next to a loo having a filter on top. maybe 2.5 feet high. what does it do? what is it called? how does it work? Maybe it is a pressure relief valve. Maybe an air admittance valve. My problem is that when the upstairs loo is used, the shower tray below emits smells, suggesting air or water are somehow pulled out. What should I do? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  10:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If I had this problem I would ring a plumber (one a friend has recommended) and ask for an opinion. It sounds as though the toilet pipe and the shower drain pipe are not connected properly. Maybe there is a vent needed and/or the shower needs a drain trap. Richard Avery (talk) 13:25, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Our article on drain-waste-vent system says "Excessive negative air pressure, behind a 'slug' of water that is draining, can siphon water from trap seals at plumbing fixtures. ... An empty trap can allow noxious sewer gasses to enter a building". If the "standing pipe" is vertical and quite wide, with some form of cap on top, then it may be a vent mechanism and it may have become stuck in the closed position. This could then cause a siphoning of water from the trap in the shower drain downstream, and explain the smells. If so, running the shower for a short time should replenish the water in its drain trap and reduce the smell. But, as Richard Avery says, you should really consult a plumber. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Advanced Euro plumbing technology? In US plumbing, such a pipe should be extended to the outside as a vent for the toilet drain. It would be open to the sewers, and would admit sewer gases to the room, unless the "filter" somehow equalizes pressure without allowing out foul gas. Edison (talk) 14:17, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is a description of an air admittance valve. Has this technology not reached the colonies yet ? Gandalf61 (talk) 14:31, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The cistern siphon has not reached there yet. Flush_toilet. 92.29.117.205 (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, definitely a Durgo valve. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  16:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd kill to have a set of British-style Thomas Crapper syphon flush cisterns at my home here in Texas. The stupid things with the flap valves that we're stuck with here are a terrible design...they need SO much maintenance.  I've probably changed at least one or two parts of every one of the three in my house about every year.  I tried replacing them with really expensive/high-quality ones (figuring that the house was built with cheap junk) - and it didn't help at all.  Argh! Come on Americans - I know this new-fangled idea has only been around for a mere 112 years, let's get with the program here! SteveBaker (talk) 05:35, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Environmental Skepticism and Global Warming Skepticism
Some people claim that the purpose of environmental skepticism is to protect the economic interests of businesses and industries. For example, some people claim that the purpose of global warming skepticism is to protect the economic interests of businesses and industries.

What do environmental skeptics think about this claim and accusation? How have they reacted and responded to it? What do global warming skeptics think about this claim and accusation? How have they reacted and responded to it?

Have Bjørn Lomborg, Penn Jillette, and Teller heard about this claim and accusation? If so, then what did they think about it? How have they reacted and responded to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.63.234 (talk) 10:39, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The same as the last dozen or so times you asked this question...Is there some greater purpose to all these near-identical questions you've been asking? Vimescarrot (talk) 11:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Man, if you really care about what these three people think, go read their books and watch their shows. Don't endlessly post specific questions on here. It does not take any great ingenuity to imagine what a skeptic would say to such statements if you understand their mindset. What do you think they would say? "Oh, I guess you're right, the whole purpose of my argument is to promote economic interests of businesses and industries?" Obviously not. They counter a sociological claim with another one: that global warming advocates are liberal elitists who would like to use the threat as a means of getting people to live their lives according to a more liberal elitist model, and all that. This is not rocket science. Read the blogs if you want to see this in real time. It is really, really tedious to post endless variations of the same question on here. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:23, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

why "life boy" still hold the market share in India at the semi urban and the rural area?
The life boy one of the oldest FMCG products in India still holds the market share in India specialy in the rural and the sei urbar area. But if the rule of product life cycle does not go with the product.Life boy also not change their product line, then how it's carry the market share.

I try to answer this case. My answer is as follows... All tough "life boy" is a old product, but it continually try to change there product life. They change the product package and product flavor.

that is why they can still hold the market share in India at semi urban and rural area.

please make necessary editing. and some others points and suggestion.

Pras9874 (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not familiar with "life boy" (although I have heard of Lifebuoy (soap)), but I will remark that one does not *need* to change the product in order to stay relevant. A prime example of this is Coca-Cola, which carries a large amount of the market share for soft drinks *because* it's the same as it always was (e.g. the New Coke debacle). The appeal to tradition/nostalgia is also very strong in the soaps and fragrances market, as the distinctive smell of a particular soap reminds you of home/mom/grandma/etc. I, for one, use many of the same soaps and cleaning products that my parents did, as other ones just don't work or smell "right". -- 174.21.233.249 (talk) 15:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, he means Lifebuoy (misspelled it). And it does hold quite a piece of market in India, due to it's economical, idealist and sportsman image as oppsoed to things like Lux that are effeminate and filmi, but it too has it's own competitor like OK...   Jon Ascton    (talk)  04:28, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Bearing in mind that Wikipedia will not do your homework for you, may I suggest the following: (1) Clarify whether or not the subject of the question is Lifebuoy soap. If so, spelling it correctly in your answer will probably make a better impression on your teacher.  (2) You state that it has retained its market share by updating the packaging and changing the scent, which is probably true, but it's a very sketchy and unsupported statement. You don't offer any evidence, such as when and how often it was updated, and what kind of changes were made.  Nor do you address the question of why this approach would be particularly successful with its core customers in rural and semi-urban areas - what's special about them, and why would they be encouraged to keep buying the product by a change of image?  If you want a good mark for your answer, you need to be more specific about what has been done with the product, and why this strategy has worked.  I found quite a lot on the subject in a quick Google search, so you should be able to improve and expand your answer.  Good luck.  Ka renjc 16:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)0

sorry for misunderstanding.m not asking you to do my home work. I just try to improve my evaluation skill to answer any case.and thank you for this help, can you suggest, wht should I search in google? Pras9874 (talk) 06:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * By FMCG, I assume you mean Fast moving consumer goods. The simple explanation might be what is called "brand loyalty". But you're looking for specific information that may not be in wikipedia. If I were to google it, I would say [lifebuoy soap "brand loyalty" India]. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:58, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

While some products change with every season (say, mobile phones or Nike shoes), others almost never do, as in the case of Coca Cola. It would appear that this particular product developed a very strong consumer following, perhaps at a time when competitor products were weak, and has managed to remain popular without the need to relaunch, reposition or reintroduce itself periodically. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Hans Einstein House in Greenville, SC
What is the street address for the Hans Einstein House in Greenville, SC? I understand that it is open for tours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.230.104.94 (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * According to a real estate site about Greenville attractions, "The house is located just off Earle Street in Greenville’s Historic District." — Michael J  16:11, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Home Internet
if you rent a home in the uk, do sometimes the internet included in the rent price? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prize Winning Tomato (talk • contribs) 15:58, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Many things happen "sometimes", and I see no reason to expect that this wouldn't ever happen. Rental terms can vary widely. &mdash; Lomn 16:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you are renting an entire house or flat normally none of the utility bills (which would include an internet connection) or the council tax are included in the rent, you are expected to arrange and pay for these yourself separately. If you are lodging in a home, the costs are normally subsumed into the rental payment. In a shared occupancy house such as a student house arrangements vary. Sometimes the landlord pays all the utility bills and sets the room rents to cover both the rent and bills, other times the occupants share the bills, but this can lead to problems when there is one 'name' on the bill who is actually liable and has to get the funds off everyone else when the bill is due. Exxolon (talk) 16:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Very unlikely, except sometimes this might be provided for students sharing a home. 92.15.15.228 (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, very uncommon for long-term lets of a full house, but often included for holiday lets.   D b f i r s   01:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

code solving
Any ideas how to solve this code? I figure it is a straight up letter replacement encryption, but the short length is very aggravating. Any ideas?

iwap fxspbmu vfxrc vsxjfe

Googlemeister (talk) 18:55, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * It says "Just another manic Monday". Also "Burn against camel, Compaq!"  See here if you want to play.  Marnanel (talk) 19:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I just typed in a very, very simple code and it did not work. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 19:34, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Giant traffic jam on Beijing-Tibet Expressway
Where can I find a map and a satellite photograph of the current traffic jam on the Beijing-Tibet Expressway? (http://theridgeonline.co.za/world’s-worst-traffic-jam/) Does Wikipedia have information about the traffic jam?—Wavelength (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article about that expressway is China National Expressway 6. -- Wavelength (talk) 21:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I googled [beijing traffic jam] and there were plenty of hits, naturally. The first was this WSJ item which doesn't have any satellite photos but does have a minimilistic diagram that might give some perspective. This much I know: After reading about that, I'm never again going to complain about having to spend an extra hour or two on the Dan Ryan. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:33, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article about that expressway is Dan Ryan Expressway. -- Wavelength (talk) 21:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you speak Italian, look up the song l'Ingorgo by Lucio Dalla. I don't know whether it refers to a real event or not.  It.wiki has no article on it. --Trovatore (talk) 21:08, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know that one, but there's a generic song called "Damn that Traffic Jam", by James Taylor. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:23, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that link, Baseball Bugs. According to that article, the expressway seems to be China National Highway 110.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 21:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like they should rename it the 110 parking lot. I've got a hunch some heads will roll over this fiasco. (maybe literally) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article is China National Highway 110 traffic jam. You can find plenty of images on a Google news search. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 19:31, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Axe identification
hi im new to this site but ive got something to show which maybe of interest, i recently worked on the scrapping of the Clemenceau (R98) and in one of the locker rooms and i came across a pair of old overalls with something wrapped in them so i unfolded them and there i came across like some sort of axe looking device with a hole in the bottom as if it was suppose to sit on something it also has the tigers head on it with the ships name carved in around it it stands around 2 and a half feet tall and the end looks like a sword point and then two like axe blades come from the side its quite heavy chrome and brass looking any ideas what it may have been used for thanks neily39 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neily39 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 24 August 2010


 * Posted here on behalf of this new user, who actually asked this on their talk page, but I thought RD might be able to help.  Chzz  ► 20:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Some kind of Halberd?  Chzz  ► 21:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * On an aircraft carrier it seems most likely to be a fire axe, although I can't find a reference to any that looks like that. Looie496 (talk) 01:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * This is an encyclopedia. How is anyone supposed to understand what you mean by "scrapping of the clemenceau" Is the "clemenceau" a ship, a building, a statue, a Frenchman, or what?  Most of the Wikipedia readers will only think of some old Frenchman who had a big moustache. Edison (talk) 03:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Edison. If you put "scrapping of the clemenceau" into the Wikipedia search box, then the very first match is French aircraft carrier Clemenceau (R98). Similarly, Google makes it quite clear. Plus, they did say "ship". Hope that helps,  Chzz  ►  04:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently the question has been clarified since I asked the question for clarification. And it should not be necessary for every Ref Desk volunteer to do research to figure out what clemenceau the questioner is talking about. Edison (talk) 19:38, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with the iconography of the French Navy (La Marine), but the French Republic, like the American one, looked back to the Roman Republic for inspiration, which is why the fasces, an axe (often double-headed) surrounded by a bundle of rods, can be found as a republican symbol in both countries. See National Emblem of France. [It was, of course, later used by Mussolini's Fascists looking back to Imperial (rather than republican) Rome, and when Philippe Pétain became leader of Vichy France {L'État Français, rather than La République), he adopted the Francisque, a double-headed axe deliberately mirroring the symbol of fascism, but allegedly based on an old weapon of the Franks.] A more traditional fasces (reminiscent of those on the U.S. Senate's wall and the Mercury Dime) is on the presidential flag of Valéry Giscard d'Estaing of the Fifth Republic (served 1974–1981). Now that I think about it, I remember collecting "RF" postage stamps that made use of the republican fasces, and I think that one (like the U.S. Senate's) may be on the wall of the Chamber of Deputies where Clemenceau served as Prime Minister (1906-9; 1917-20). See also the symbol chosen for Wikipedia's own Template:Politics of France. ¶ If you consult the article on Georges Clemenceau, you'll see that one of his nicknames was Le Tigre (the tiger), so I think this object must have served as a symbol of the ship, like the figurehead. I hope it's been kept from disappearing into the collectors' market, because I think it would have a strong meaning for the officers and men who served aboard the Clemenceau. —— Shakescene (talk) 08:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Also note the third insignia on this page, The nickname of the French premierminister during WW I was "Tiger" and a Tiger's face was chosen as Insignia of the Ship bearing his name.  Chzz  ► 06:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)