Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 December 14

= December 14 =

Man size statue
Does anyone know more about the man size statue that is in Laguna beach, California? Something about he was the toun greeter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.77.224.230 (talk) 07:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Eiler Larsen? http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1101&bih=648&q=eiler+larsen&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=f&oq=&gs_rfai= - there's a few news articles about him, assuming that's the statue you mean (not been to laguna beach but my google-ing suggests that's the guy and the statue). ny156uk (talk) 07:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Boxing in the 1930s - Killer Kid Williams
My father, Frederick William Woolsey Sr., was a professional boxer and fought under the name Killer Kid Williams (DOB 15-Jan-1900). He passed away in 1963 and I have always wanted to find out more about him.

The only three things I know is : 1. He won 36 of 37 professional bouts (according to his epitaph). 2. One win was when his opponent and his brother jumped him in a alley before the fight and he beat them so badly they did not show up at the fight. 3. Another was his last fight (his only loss) when he fought a largh Indian out of his class and he decided to quit due to corruption in the sport.

Father was born near Fair Park in Dallas Texas but I believe he may have fought out of the West coast. My older sister was born in 1937 so the early 1930s is only my guess of when he was Boxing. I was 15 when he died after several years of illness due to being hit in the head with a concrete block which lead to being parlized on his left side. He was only around 50 pounds when he died but averaged 170 before becomming ill.

Can you please help me find out more about him ?

Frederick William Woolsey Jr. [redacted email] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.43.131.153 (talk) 15:00, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * We have an article Kid Williams about a pro boxer with a different real name who also died in 1963. He fought in bouts from 1901 to 1931. Maybe your dad took up the "Kid Williams" part and added "Killer" to clarify it was not the same person. Kind of like "Sugar Ray Leonard" and "Sugar Ray Robinson." Do you have any reference to a newspaper article about your dad? Where and when was the obituary you mentioned published? Or by "epitaph" do you mean it says that on his tombstone? There is nothing in Google News archive or Google Books, or Google for that matter, or in a number of online references I checked. You might find information at Ancestry.com, to which I do not currently have a subscription. Online boxing records shows a number of fighters who used "Kid" and "Williams" in their stage names or as real names:. There are several with real last name "Woolsey" but I did not see an obvious match:. I checked Ancestry.com and they have his WW1 draft card image and his Social Security Death record. They also appear to have census records from 1910 for him. He is included in 7 family trees that folks have submitted. You can also look up the 1920, and 1930 US census entries for your family. Edison (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

buildings again
A few days ago I asked a question on here, looking for information on old buildings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010_December_8#Buildings. I received a few replies there, but now I am wondering, can anyone point me towards a website or something where I can study some of these in much more detail? Also, any other suggestions would be appreciated still. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 16:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I added another suggestion to that earlier today. Edit: Pentonville Prison is an example. There is a cross-section shown here http://www.hevac-heritage.org/landmark_buildings/institutional/institutional.htm and much else can be found by searching for it. I think they have top-lighting again, although not shown on the diagram. I think the Victorians thought lots of fresh air was good for health and reduced disease, and as heating then was due to open fires, they were fanatical in getting large air draughts, but when using other kinds of modern heating the quantity of ventilation is too much. 92.15.11.6 (talk) 17:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Lockheed Martin developing for other countries?
Are there laws in the US that prevents companies such as Boeing or Lockheed Martin from developing weapons technology for other countries? For example, would they have some sort of license revoked if they developed a new fighter jet for, say, Russia? Acceptable (talk) 17:13, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * If the work involves the transfer of sensitive technologies (that is, stuff that's designed or built outside inside the US going elsewhere) then International Traffic in Arms Regulations is very relevant. Both of these companies have extensive dealings with the companies and governments of countries other than the US. If memory serves (I'll Google shortly) there were some export-licence issues about a US built (by Loral, I think) satellite being launched on a Russian rocket. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 17:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * There are limits for various arms and weapons systems and specific regulations on US firms about exporting arms to specific countries, but note that the US is the world's largest arms exporter, too. Wiki Dao  &#9775;  (talk)  19:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And even without a law, the government could just threaten to order their next generation fighter-bomber from a different company if LMT did not refrain from selling Mexico missile parts or whatever. Googlemeister (talk) 19:34, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution gives the Congress blanket authority to regulate all commerce that's not strictly intra-state. This government site gets into some details about export regulations. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:08, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

This question seems to arise from a view that all those evil foreigners are our enemies. A healthier view, and one I'm sure that Boeing and Lockheed Martin would prefer to take, is that all those nice foreigners are potential customers. Yes, take some care with security, but don't stop trade. HiLo48 (talk) 22:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * For example, we've curbed cigarette smoking in the USA significantly, but no problem; the tobacco growers have found many foreign markets. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:57, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The Federal Government has wide ranging power to set rules about international exports, and what companies can export, all without any reference to the commerce clause. The ITAR rules are probably the most relevant, but believe that any U.S. arms exports that are legal are strictly controlled. Shadowjams (talk) 11:39, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The correct answer to the original question is yes, definitely, with the qualification that Boeing and Lockheed can develop weapons for other countries if and only if they get permission from the US government to do so. The law in question is the Arms Export Control Act of 1976. The US has very wide-ranging and very broad "export control" regulations that cover all manners of weapons, strategic technologies (even encryption), even certain types of scientific data, and it varies by countries (you might be able to ship something to Iceland that you couldn't ship to Russia, for example). To ship anything on the United States Munitions List to another country requires an export license. Shipping without said license is arms running and illegal. See the links for more information, or this page from the Department of Commerce, but note (as the page does) that different agencies regulate different technologies (e.g. Dept. of State regulates defense tech, Dept. of Energy nuclear, etc.). --Mr.98 (talk) 14:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Dyed vodka smuggling
A movie and an episode of Bones (season 5) (#18) both had as an element the smuggling of vodka by tainting it with blue dye, importing it for industrial uses, then filtering out the blue dye at the other end. Given the repeated motif, I was wondering if there was fact or rumor to this happening in real life.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Alcohol for industrial use is denatured, which is science-speak for "laced with stuff that will make you hurl". I suppose you could disguise normal vodka by dying it, except that normal liquor is dyed blue too: see Curaçao (liqueur), so I'm not sure how making one alcoholic drink look exactly like a different alcoholic drink would work. Plus, plenty of denatured alcohol is not dyed, meaning it looks exactly like vodka. -- Jayron  32  21:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Not vodka, but there is a recognised black-market trade in dyed fuels. Astronaut (talk) 23:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it did happen. See "A Smuggling Operation With a Russian Twist" by William K. Rashbaum, published in the New York Times on August 19, 2000. Gabbe (talk) 11:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Elk with no horns
Way back in my grade school days, my English lessons included a story told by a native American about an "elk with no horns". The poem did not reveal what the creature actually was, but I have always assumed it was a horse. Am I correct? J I P &#124; Talk 22:02, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It would be tough to speculate. If the story predates European contact, then it would decidedly NOT be a horse.  Horses came to the Americas in the 16th century.  -- Jayron  32  23:49, 14 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Was it an elk or an elk? DuncanHill (talk) 23:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Or a Knight of Pythias? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you mean the BPOE -- Jayron  32  00:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm a Buffalo, which is not to be confused with a buffalo, or even a Buffalo. DuncanHill (talk) 00:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo. Gabbe (talk) 11:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you google "medicine dogs" + "Native American" you get several references about post-Columbian Native American neologisms for horses (a sight never seen, as pointed out by Jayron). "Medicine dogs", "good dogs", or "mystery dogs" by the Comanche. "Mystery dogs", "amazing dogs", or even "sacred dogs" by the Lakota. The Native People of North America: A History, Volume 1 (Bruce E. Johansen, Rutgers University Press, 2006, p 246, ISBN 9780813538990). I also found a quote by R. David Edwards in American Indian Identity:
 * "They have animals called Medicine Dogs
 * that stand high as an elk but have no antlers"
 * "But do they bark and warn the camp when strangers approach?"
 * Unfortunately I found no further context here; it was quoted as an aperçu to a chapter in another book by Diane Glancy (The West Pole, University of Minnesota Press, 1997, p 71, ISBN 9780816628940). ---Sluzzelin talk  01:00, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * "a story told by a native American"--was it mythology or a telling of some personal experience? That would help separate pre- and post-contact issues. Somewhere in the house I have a book that tells a story about very early colonial times when English colonists would let their cattle loose to forage, but marked them with a ribbon around the neck, or something to that effect. A group of Native Americans came across one and had no idea what it was. I'm not sure about describing cattle as "elk without horns"--some cattle have horns after all. But then again, they can be quite a bit larger than deer. For people unfamiliar with moose, elk might be the closest approximation. A google search on "elk with no horns" and "native american" turns up many possible leads. Pfly (talk) 07:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It was a telling of personal experience, and surely from the post-Columbian era, after encounter with Europeans. I remember the native American writing "that was the first time I saw an elk with no horns", so I'm pretty sure if it had been just a female elk, he would have recognised it as such. J I P  &#124; Talk 19:33, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Western tribes were so mobile and elk and moose ranges overlap so much that I am having trouble seeing where anyone might have been familiar with only elk and not moose. (Only moose but not elk was more likely.) Rmhermen (talk) 15:09, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * A lady elk is never horny. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:38, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Weren't elk common in places like Pennsylvania, but not moose? I was thinking of the Lenape, Susquehannock, Erie people, and others who lived in the general Pennsylvania area. I just read Eastern elk and learned they've been extinct since the late 1800s. Are there no elk in the Appalachians anymore? Pfly (talk) 20:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Another example comes to mind--there are large herds of elk on the Olympic Peninsula and elsewhere in Washington, like near Mount Rainier, but no moose. I doubt there were ever moose on the Olympic Peninsula. By the way, the range map on the moose page (this one, File:Moose distribution.png), does not seem very accurate, especially when compared with the map of North America on the same page, File:Alces alces NA.svg. The world map would have moose on Vancouver Island, in the Oregon High Desert, and even in the New Jersey area, but not in Yellowstone or the Tetons. The North America map cites its sources but the world map does not. Someone ought to find or make a better world range map for the moose page. Pfly (talk) 21:01, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Historically moose were more widespread than even the NA map. From the moose article: "more isolated groups have been verified as far south as the mountains of Utah and Colorado and as far west as the Blue Mountains of Oregon...In Northeastern North America, the Eastern moose's historical range extended from well into Quebec, the Maritimes, and Eastern Ontario south to include all of New England finally ending in the very northeastern tip of Pennsylvania in the west, cutting off somewhere near the mouth of the Hudson River in the east. Rmhermen (talk) 02:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

There was a Sioux chief named Young Man Afraid Of His Horses. In a story I read, his real, Sioux name, was His Enemies Even Fear His Camp Dogs, since the Sioux word for dogs was also used for horses. Can't say where I read this, though. Corvus cornix talk  22:48, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * He was considered to be immature, hence the saga of "A Sioux Named Boy". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)