Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 February 28

= February 28 =

Pioneers by Frank Hudson
Pioneers by Frank Hudson is an Australian bush ballad but what I want to know is when it was published or written (what year will do) because i've searched in quite a few places and can't seem to find the date? 220.233.83.26 (talk) 01:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I've had a look and can't find it either. It is mentioned as being taught in schools in the 1950s HERE. "Images of Australia: an introductory reader in Australian studies" Ed. By Gillian Whitlock, David Carter,University_of_Queensland Press might help. Otherwise I suggest trying the WP:language desk. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 20:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Oil and Natural Gas
Coal is used to generate electricity. But do all power stations that use fossil fuels to generate elctricity use coal? Are there any power stations that use oil or natural gas to generate elctricity?

Oil is used to power transports. But are all transports powered by oil? Are there any transports that are powered by natural gas?

Bowei Huang 2 (talk) 04:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you Google "natural gas bus" you can see many images of public transport buses that use natural gas. Dismas |(talk) 04:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And googling "natural gas power plant" will bring up links about plants powered by natural gas, while "oil power plant" finds a couple of plants where electricity is generated by burning oil (both of which do exist, though are less common than coal fired plants). And of course, some transports are powered by coal, some use rubber bands, and I even have one that runs on Cheetos. Buddy431 (talk) 05:01, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Coal is abundant in America, and thus is used in many American power plants. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:08, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * (EC with below) I'm pretty sure the 'though are less common than coal fired plants' is not applicable everywhere, although in terms of the overall world situation it's perhaps true given the US and China's high usage.
 * I don't believe it's the case in NZ for example. Take a look at Category:Power stations in New Zealand & List of power stations in New Zealand, while I'm not sure if these are complete I believe they're probably not that far and likely cover all the major plants. In terms of amount, our article Electricity sector in New Zealand supported by this ref shows 23.7% is from natural gas and 10.5% coal. It's possible/likely there was even less coal used in the past, diminishing natural gas supplies have meant that Huntly Power Station for example is increasingly turning to coal and this may or may not get worse as time progresses (see for example and the last paragraph of our article).
 * I believe it's also the case in Malaysia. Again take a look at List of power stations in Malaysia and Energy policy of Malaysia which mentions 62.6% gas, 20.9% coal possibly supported by this ref (there doesn't appear to be any overall figures, you may be able to work it out from the other figures given but I'm not sure since there doesn't seem to be figures given for the generation mix from IPPs and it's not clear to me where/how the 20.9% figure came from). As with NZ, coal usage is increasing, given increasing power demands, diminishing local supplies and its relatively low cost.
 * Somewhat illustrated by these two examples I guess, it depends significantly on factors such as local supplies particularly historically. BTW, as mentioned in this answer, there are coal/gas power plants and even coal/gas/oil plants, a plant doesn't necessarily only use one.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 07:29, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For a good example of natural gas use, try the UK. Here is a graph. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 11:55, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * How about a reference from the reference desk? Here are two graphs from the Electricity generation article.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 07:14, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Are there any cars that are powered by natural gas?

An Unknown Person (talk) 03:50, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. See natural gas vehicle. 06:21, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

John Terry v Wayne Bridge

 * I'm not asking for moral or other opinions here - simply to ask for a bit of clarity over the timing of the "alleged" relationship between John Terry and his former team mate Wayne Bridge's ex-girlfriend. Did the "alleged" relationship take place before or after the the ex-girlfriend became the "ex" girlfriend? Thanks. 92.30.7.27 (talk) 10:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Considering the extent of media hype over this so-called "news story", concrete detail is surprisingly hard to find. This report states that the relationship between Bridge and Ms. Perroncel ended in December 2009, and that the relationship between her and Terry began "after Bridge moved to Cheshire when he joined Manchester City". Our article Wayne Bridge puts Bridge's debut for Manchester City in the first week of January 2010.  Assuming both sources are correct then the anwer to your question is just after, not before.   Ka renjc 11:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, rereading it I'm out by a year. Bridge joins City in early 2009, so if the other source is correct the relationship began almost a year before Bridge and Perroncel split, with no indication how long it lasted.  But there's no guarantee the source is correct.  Ka renjc 11:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Difference between hits and visitors
I joined a fanfiction site where you can see the number of people visiting your pages. Can anybody tell me the difference between "hits" and "visitors" in such sites. Often, the number of hits is higher than the number of visitors in my page. What does that mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.233.206 (talk) 12:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * If Jenny visits a site and views ten pages, that's just one visitor (Jenny) but ten hits. A big visitor:view ratio is generally taken to mean that visitors liked the site and stayed for a bit to look around; a low ratio that they weren't very taken by what they got and left soon after they came. But the collection and interpretation of these statistics is confounded by so many technical and social factors that relying on the raw numbers to tell you all that much about who is actually visiting a site and what they're doing can be very tricky. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 12:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually that's page views and not hits. "Hits" is the number of file requests, so a single page view might involve 1 "hit" or 55 "hits".  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Which is why, for example, Google Analytics and other services break down the numbers into finer categories, like "How long do people stay on the site?" and "Do they immediately close the site's window when they see it? (did they get the page accidentally?)" and things like that. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:40, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Webley-Fosbery
Hi, I don't know if I'm in the right place for this question, but is the Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver auto or semi-auto? The name would suggest that it is fully automatic, but it never clearly states the rate of fire or type of fire. Thanks --Amendola90 (talk) 12:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Semi-auto: Automatic as in automatic pistol. With the Webley-Fosbery, the cylinder is rotated and the hammer cocked by recoil, rather than by the trigger pull as with normal DA revolvers. FiggyBee (talk) 13:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Map distance marker
Is there a name for the bar on a map that indicates distance? Thanks. Axl ¤  [Talk]  13:06, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Linear scale. FiggyBee (talk) 13:11, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Axl  ¤  [Talk]  16:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * More commonly just "scale". On some maps you may see "scale of miles" or similar -- I don't think I've ever seen this with metric units, so I guess it's an old-fashioned usage.  --Anonymous, 17:10 UTC, March 1, 2010.

Prices
Suppose I aim to buy a particular thing. Before I go out looking for it, I think about how much thing costs. I decide that I'll probably have to pay 70 currency units for it. That's OK, I think, I'm happy with that price. So I go to a market, and see the thing I want on a stall. Now instead of saying "I'm willing to pay 70 for that," I ask how much it is. The guy says it costs 50. "Great!" I say, hand over a fifty currency unit piece, and walk away with the thing, having concealed the fact that I was willing to pay more. Question is, was this dishonest of me? 213.122.31.82 (talk) 13:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No. I don't see how that could be interpreted as dishonest. Even if you knew that what you were buying for 50 units was actually worth 50,000 units, it wouldn't be dishonest.--Shantavira|feed me 13:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Isn't it generally dishonest to conceal beneficial information from the person it concerns? 213.122.31.82 (talk) 13:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I think your question is a bit vague, and there are several possible scenarios. If you've merely slightly overestimated how much a low-value, commonly available item costs ($70 vs $50), then there's no dishonesty in taking it for the lower price (but you might want to wonder why it's being sold cheap; maybe the seller's being dishonest!).  On the other hand, if "you knew that what you were buying for 50 units was actually worth 50,000 units", but the person selling it doesn't know the true value of what they're selling, then you're definitely taking advantage of them in a dishonest way. FiggyBee (talk) 13:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * See also information economics, information asymmetry, and linked articles. Conversely, if the shopkeeper would have been happy to sell the item for 45 rather than 50, did he cheat you &mdash; even though you would have paid as much as 70?
 * As well, our article on supply and demand (and linked articles) touch on how prices are determined within a free market. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:26, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, those are good links. I had information economics in mind, actually, I love me some Hayek. My concern was that it would be more rational to reveal the prices we would be willing to accept and pay up front; but then I can't see how negotiations would proceed from there, unless we just agreed to settle for whatever the market price appeared to be, which doesn't take into account local conditions like how much the thing costs on the next stall along, how much I want it and how sore my feet are - but I'm concerned that price gouging destroys information too - but I've probably got it all backwards. 213.122.31.82 (talk) 14:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Let the buyer beware - and also let the seller beware. If he doesn't know the value of the stuff he's selling, he ought to find another line of work. Buying something at the price it's marked is not being dishonest, it's being smart. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→


 * Remember that supply and demand curves are just an aggregation of the reserve price of buyers and sellers. Almost every sale involves a buyer paying less than their reserve price and a seller selling for greater than their reserve price. In fact, economists argue that this difference is the value to society of that trade (see economic surplus)203.217.33.23 (talk) 08:12, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * In addition to all the good links so far, check out consumer surplus. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I wonder if any of you remember a legal brouhaha over a Nolan Ryan rookie baseball card a decade or two ago. The shop owner wanted 2,500 for it. The customer paid an ignorant clerk 25 for it. But the shop owner had written the price as 25 with the two 00's underlined. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Economically, the key to a good (i.e., unbiased) transaction is a willing buyer and a willing seller. If you're willing to buy at the price he's willing to sell, that's just fine. There is no reason why either of you should be at the extreme of your price ranges. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:54, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * At the article economic surplus there's a nice graph showing that equilibrium is where producers are willing to sell X units at Y price and consumers are also willing to buy X units at Y price. In order for this to work, there have to be some failed transactions: some of the producers weren't willing to sell at that price, and some of the consumers weren't willing to buy, hence a particular quantity is sold. In my scenario there is only one producer and one consumer, so I have to think in terms of probabilities: the equilibrium is the price-quantity pair at which I and the stallholder are equally likely to agree to the deal. What bothers me is that individual transactions hardly ever occur at this price, even if we go through a haggling process, since we conceal information about our reserve prices. Surely by sharing information (and behaving unselfishly) we could arrive at equilibrium with great accuracy - somehow? I guess information about reserve prices isn't sufficient, though, it's only the start. I'm not sure what information we'd need to find equilibrium: some kind of quantifying of amount of preference (for each possible price). 81.131.42.83 (talk) 12:49, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be mixing theoretical and real world concepts to the point of confusion. In the real world, there may well be failed transactions, but that isn’t theoretically necessary for the analysis to work. In addition, the concept of “failed transactions” is just another way of saying “bargaining,” which is not a transaction but the means of getting to a mutually acceptable price (or, failing to do so). Whether laying all of our cards on the table every time would benefit society as a whole (faster and more accurate pricing) is irrelevant: I’m not going to show you my hole card unless it is obviously to my advantage. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:12, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

When you see it...
Can somebody tell me what is supposed to be so shocking in this picture? It's bugging me!-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  15:53, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

P.S. If you feel this would be better under /Entertainment, please do not hesitate to move my post.


 * Using Tineye, the only thing anybody seems to have seen is the face beyond the upper right border of the picture. It has not caused anybody to shit bricks.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:01, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You mean the cloud formation that vaguely looks like a skull or something? That can't be it. Either that, or someone is too easily startled. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That TinEye looks pretty nifty. Now if someone e-mails you some weird photo, you could look for it on the internet and maybe even figure out where it came from. In the case of this one, it looks like that company that parodies "Successories". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:20, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, you mean the little blurb that's in the black part in the upper right? I downloaded the image and it's just a few lighter-colored pixels. It doesn't look like much of anything. Maybe you have to have the original? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If I may, I would like to add that 'When you see it, you'll sh*t bricks' is an internet meme.-- Editor510  drop us a line, mate  16:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, if you put that in Google, you get a gazillion references. This site discusses the photo in question and some others. A seriously overactive imagination in some cases, including this one. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That first one is outstanding. The one linked by the original poster is superlame.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 06:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If you have to brighten a photo extensively in order to see the thing that's supposed to scare you, it kind of takes the punch out of it. You're right, the werewolf thing is pretty good, although it's nice to know a werewolf can be defeated by a golf club. Now, this thing, if it still works, is fairly scary, or startling at least, especially if you have the sound up. FYI, a friend once sent me this with no warning. I'm at least warning you. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If you pull the image into a paint program and dramatically boost the image brightness, you'll see that the vague spodge outside the frame to the top-right is indeed a picture of a face. I'm not sure what's special about it though...just a lame piece of photoshoppery. You can see what I found here.  So far, no bricks have been shat. SteveBaker (talk) 18:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't even need a paint program; you can see it if you zoom in using a web browser's zoom. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I just looked at it at an angle and my LCD screen made it stand out without any adjustments at all. --Tango (talk) 20:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeh, you have to brighten it. Pretty lame. "Officer, there's a couple making love in the apartment across the alley, and I can see them through my window!" "Ma'am, I can't see anything." "Well, you have to stand on this ladder..." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:32, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The green tree to the right of the tower looks like a face. Try magnifying the image to 400%. Not scary though. -- SGBailey (talk) 11:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Read Pareidolia. No the face off the top-right corner is the thing we're supposed to be scared by...again, look at the brightened version on my web site here.  SteveBaker (talk) 13:43, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I hope I'm not the only one that finds a lot of these sorts of things vaguely racist. "Oh look here are a bunch of happy white folk .... ON NO THERE'S A BLACK PERSON IN THE BACKGROUND!" Scary. (Hopefully this is a parody.)
 * On the other hand, the golfer/werewolf one is pretty damn cool. The first couple of times I saw it totally didn't see the werewolf and assumed it was just someone's imagination playing up. Then I noticed it just now. Awesome.   (The wolf's pointed ears are at the top of frame just opposite the "UC", his scary face is right below that.)   APL (talk) 18:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Quite some of the stuff that's been popping up in the Cloaca Maxima of the Internet featuring black people in a more or less subtle racist manner is IMO actually anti-racist - it's playing on racist stereotypes and to an extent used to troll people that actually are racist. Consider the similar vein of pedophilia humor - it seems very warped and just plain wrong to a casual observer, but when push comes to shove, the same people who post pseudo pedophilic jokes on the Internet have been responsible for the arrest and incarceration of at least two actual pedophiles. Of course, the disdain for pedophilia is much stronger than the disdain for racism, so the subtle anti streak is more easily discernible, and on the other hand it's easier for actual racist people to get on the bandwagon, creating their own image macros (not even realizing they are being trolled), so the situation with black people image macros is much more muddled. Ultimately, I think of it as coping with difficult issues through humor. I've seen this before with Bosniaks, they are capable of poking fun out of some of the most gruesome moments in their history, the Balkan wars - not because of irreverence or ignorance, but to cope with it. Or I could be just too optimistic regarding the human race and it's actually just plain old racism, who knows. TomorrowTime (talk) 08:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Not very scary. Maybe I'm too much of a literalist. The faces peeking around the corner are a bit spooky, just because of expressions. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:21, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Multi-storey car parks
What is the multi-storey car park with the most levels? --88.76.18.70 (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * According to this site, the Hotel Harrison in Chicago, at 21 stories. There were apparently taller ones in Chicago and Cincinatti which were demolished in the 1960's, and there are taller vehicle storage facilities (such as the one in the Volkswagen adverts, which is a real building, not CGI), but they're not really _car parks_. Tevildo (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

 thee Volkswagen thing is a Autostadt (Car Silo i've heard it called). ny156uk (talk) 23:01, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

What is the split-level multi-storey car park with the most levels? --88.76.18.70 (talk) 02:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Found copy of New York Bill Of Rights
Where can I have a copy of the NY Bill Of Rights reviewed for it's value? I purchased a copy at a local Goodwill Store in January. four tildes —Preceding unsigned comment added by History1700 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You could take it to an antiques dealer. Be advised, though, that barring some exceptional chain of events that leads to a 200-year-old original document not just reaching Goodwill but physically surviving the process, it's just a print-out and of no monetary value at all. &mdash; Lomn 17:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Mikado
Back in the 1918's the US took over the Railroad System under USRA. One of their designs was the 2-8-2 USRA Light Mikado.

What is the origin of the name 'Mikado'? Why did they use this particular name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.194.15.141 (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * 2-8-2. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * From mikado 1727, former title of the emperor of Japan, from mi "honorable" + kado "gate, portal." Similar to Sublime Porte, old title of the Ottoman emperor/government, and Pharaoh, which literally means "great house." By 1918 the name was best known as the title of a comic opera by W. S. Gilbert and Arthur Sullivan. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to make the point explicit, "Mikado" was a name for the 2-8-2 wheel arrangement -- that is, for any steam locomotive with 2 leading wheels, 8 coupled driving wheels, and 2 trailing wheels -- and not for any particular model of locomotive. It was customary with steam locomotives to invent a new name for each widely used wheel arrangement.  Sometimes there was more than one name and some of the names were more widely adopted than others.  For example, a 4-4-2 was an "Atlantic", a 4-6-2 was a "Pacific", a 4-6-4 was a "Hudson" or "Baltic".  See Whyte notation.  --Anonymous, 21:21:21 UTC, March 1, 2010.

How to sleep cheaply overnight in London?
I will need to sleep overnight once or twice each week during May and June in London. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can arrange this cheaply? I only need somewhere from about 10pm or 11pm until the morning. I would be happy to sleep on a clean floor, or even in a small tent, provided it is safe. I would not want to be in a Salvation Army hostel or among down-and-outs though. Thanks 89.242.47.252 (talk) 18:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * YMCA? Youth Hostels Association (England and Wales)? --Dweller (talk) 18:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Or other "backpackers hostel". There is one in Earls Court, for instance. 81.131.41.170 (talk) 18:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * If you have a tent and don't mind commuting, there are several campsites within 10 miles of central London.--Shantavira|feed me 19:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Bunk down in Hyde Park, or any other. If the police bring you in, well, that's still a bed. Vranak (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hyde Park would not generally be considered a safe place to spend the night, even if the police were not extremely likely to move you on. 86.177.121.239 (talk) 21:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I have a friend who's stayed in a youth hostel in London a few times when visiting friends. He hasn't been brutally murdered. Yet. ;-) 131.111.248.99 (talk) 21:22, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Also see Wikitravel. BrainyBabe (talk) 22:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm no longer a youth unfortunately. I'd prefer somewhere I could book now. I wish there were "tube" hotels as in Japan. 89.242.47.252 (talk) 22:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There are such things in London - they are called "Capsule hotels" (presumably because "tube" has an entirely different meaning in London). Here is one .  Google "Capsule hotel london".  (I checked on Google maps - there are four "easyHotels" in central London and another in Heathrow. SteveBaker (talk) 02:37, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Youth hostels no-longer cater only to youths; anyone can use them. And (for a very modest increment) you can get your own room (or share a two-person room) rather than sleep in a big dormitory. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 23:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Do they still have bunk beds in YHAs? I wouldn't like to sleep on the top bunk, I'd be worried about falling off. 89.242.47.252 (talk) 23:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * When I was going back and forth to London (a few years ago, mind you), the cheapest option turned out to be University Halls of Residence, which are often let for general use over the summer months. The one I used was very close to Russell Square tube, and cost about £20/night including breakfast/linens for a single room. This website provides some links. As far as I know, there is no age restriction. I would also second the suggestion about youth hostels; the ones I've used have had a wide variety of guests (including families with children) and have been fairly reasonably priced. One issue can sometimes be noise - check out reviews on a site like hostels.com for pros and cons. I've also used capsule hotels in London; very nice, but ended up rather pricey (for me, at least). -- Kateshortforbob talk  12:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * How about looking into Couchsurfing? Not sure about coverage in London though.  Astronaut (talk) 03:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Would like suggestiosn for history investigation
Alright I'm studying history and as part of our exams we must do an investigation and write up about some event (It can be literally anything from a rugby tour to a ship sinking to a battle) before 1993. I need to write about 1,500 words on the subject and I need have a couple of sources. The more obscure the subject the better, stuff liek the berlin wall, holocaust, lusitania etc that everyone knows about usually do very poorly, while stuff about some submarine accident nobody has heard of usually do quite well. So basically it shouldn't be too well known, but there needs to be books and other sources on the subject. I'm not quite sure what I'm interested in, but I would prefer to do it about soemthing that happened after 1919. I would really appreciate it if you could suggest a few things. Thanks!--92.251.180.170 (talk) 21:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Any country in particular? And from 1919 until what date? BrainyBabe (talk) 22:00, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The OP indicated 1919 to 1992. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:13, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've always been fascinated by the rise and fall of Leon Trotsky, especially the gory death. Historians do love a gory death. And most of your peers are more likely to focus on Stalin or Lenin than Trotsky, so your bored teacher may be pleasantly surprised. --Dweller (talk) 22:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Beware that teachers don't generally consider copying from Wikipedia to be proper investigation. Taking the example of Leon Trotsky mentioned above, look at the list of references given on that page. Such references contain a wealth of information sources that go beyond what Wikipedia has, some of it as obscure as you could wish for. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For a couple of UK events, how about Ronan Point or the Munich air crash? 1960's architecture and (especially) football are potentially interesting subjects to write about after you've covered the facts of the event. Tevildo (talk) 22:32, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're in the UK, you could look at Timeline of British history, pick a period (say, 1970-89), pick a year (say, 1986), find a topic that looks interesting (say, "17 April, Journalist John McCarthy is kidnapped in Beirut, where three other hostages are found dead"), do some reading around the subject, and take it from there. Obviously, there are similar articles for other countries as well.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Ooo, you could research the Windscale fire. It's the first of the three big nuclear reactor accidents, the worst in the UK, and happened in 1957 - meaning it's well within your timescale and there's lots written about it. It also has the advantage that the BBC made a pretty good documentary about it in 2007: if you can get your hands on that, it will give you a lot of context and a good overview to get you started. It has all sorts of links to WW2 and the Cold War, if you want those, and to the generally political situation in the UK at the time. Plus, you can make it very relevant to recent problems at Sellafield - showing the importance of learning from history. 86.177.121.239 (talk) 00:47, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * How obscure your event can be depends on your access to sources. If you can get to the important repositories like the National Archives or the British Library then you could do some really good digging and uncover a story that hasn't been written about extensively. Otherwise make sure you pick something where there are lots of contrasting viewpoints available - look for a subject on which there has been a lively debate in the history magazines and journals. There was quite an interesting spat about the BBC's suppression of The War Game in the Journal of Contemporary History not that long ago (abstract here). Sam Blacketer (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * You want obscure? Interesting?  Unlikely even?  How about the Boston Molasses Disaster (which happened on January 15, 1919...not exactly "after 1919" but close enough!) - there are plenty of references for you to follow - even a relatively recent book on the subject.  Somewhat more obscure (and in a similar vein) is the London Beer Flood. SteveBaker (talk) 02:28, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I saw a TV show about the Romanian Revolution of 1989/downfall of Nicolae Ceauşescu and found the events really interesting; outside of Romania they are probably not nearly as well known as events like the fall of the Berlin Wall or end of the USSR. Alexius  Horatius  02:43, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Learning about Bretton Woods will introduce you to many of the most important subjects of the post-WWII era, at least in the "western world." It's obscure to most people (though standard stuff to the better-educated), and will impress your teacher.  AND you can do a good 1500-word summary. 63.17.36.101 (talk) 04:16, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can understand Bretton Woods, you belong in a master's program, not high school. One interesting UK item that's kind of obscure (at least in North America) is the Great Smog, an air pollution event that killed thousands of people in London. Another environmental tragedy was the Bhopal disaster of 1984 which got a lot of attention at the time but is hardly ever mentioned now (again in North America). One thing you could do is focus on something that is obscure in your country (Ireland, judging from your IP address) but well-known elsewhere in the English-speaking world, ensuring there will be a lot of sources to work with. The racial integration of baseball is a fascinating topic. So is Operation Entebbe and Canada's October Crisis. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I suspect your teacher is more interested in how you set about your investigation than in the obscurity of the facts you collect. Your 1 500 words goal seems adequate to include your own account of what you set out to do, what leads you followed and how far they took you. End with a summary of what you gained from the experience. I describe what I would try but it would be wise if possible to check first whether your teacher is okay with that approach. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Given this is specifically a history course, about GCSE by the sound of it, I doubt that is what the teacher wants. Far more likely that they want them to demonstrate the historian skills of researching and writing up what sources say, weighing them and reaching a conclusion. The teacher doesn't want to know "...and then I went to the library and looked for books on 20th century Britain. I found a good one and checked the index..." 86.177.121.239 (talk) 15:18, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ...and definitely don't tell your teacher "what you gained from the experience." That is a recipe for disaster with even a high school history paper unless it is explicitly asked-for. It will be seen as a way to pad out any other kind of paper. --98.217.71.237 (talk) 16:13, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Another possibility (if you don't want to go with any of our suggestions) is that you can type any year number into our search box (over on the left there) and hit "Go" and you'll get to an article with all of the events of that year laid out. So if you want something after 1919, just look at the 1920 article and you'll see a LONG list of notable events, births and deaths of notable people, who won the Nobel prizes that year, etc. SteveBaker (talk) 13:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Submarine accident you say? This is quite possibly the most catastrophic death ever experienced by a human being. LargeScaleForest (talk) 16:39, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Able Archer 83. "This relatively obscure incident is considered by many historians to be the closest the world has come to nuclear war since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962." ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:43, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I recommend some sort of local history event. It's obscure, because no one cares about local history anymore, but it's easily researched in the microfilm room of the local library.
 * One of those sepia-toned books from Arcadia Publishing would be a good start.
 * Or just pull a random roll of microfilm from the local library's collection and write about the most interesting event that you happen to notice. APL (talk) 18:46, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Haha I would have liked to do the london beer flood but unfortunately I'll have a hard time finding sources for that. According to references section in our Operation Entebbe article, however, there are a lot of books on the subject yet it's still quite interesting an different/ I'll go with that. Thanks a lot!--92.251.153.209 (talk) 23:33, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Start with your available sources, since you probably don't want to spend a lot of time searching for basic information. If you have access to a library, get the bound copies of a magazine for 1946 and write about what happened at a particular time -- everything from fashion to politics, economics and sports. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:21, 5 March 2010 (UTC)