Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 July 14

= July 14 =

Coke or Pepsi
When I order a cola flavoured drink in the pub, I ask for "a coke". I am often asked by the barperson "We only have Pepsi. Is that OK?" It seems to me such an odd thing to ask, since as far as I can tell they taste identical especially with the large amount of ice and lemon they frequently add to the glass. Has anyone (in a British pub) seriously said "Oh, no it's not OK. I'll have something different"? Astronaut (talk) 04:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The response shows good service training and care for the customer. As someone hailing from the American south, I can beat your blind Coke-Pepsi taste test 10 out of 10 times (and have) and if you told me you only had Pepsi, I WOULD ask for an alternate beverage. In fact, I'm drinking a coke right NOW! 218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In America, at least, there's definitely a different taste between the two. In particular, Pepsi tends to be sweeter. Too sweet, actually, which is why I like Coke better. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I always order something else if I am told "we only have Pepsi. Is that OK?"  I, like 218, can identify the difference 10 out of 10 times.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 05:37, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I can also confirm that in the US, Coke and Pepsi do indeed taste different. Is it possible that the British (the OP used the word first, don't complain to me for using it) version of these beverages uses cane sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup? Maybe that would make them taste similar in your particular location. On a side note, in the American South, "coke" is a generic term for any carbonated beverage and it's not unusual for you to hear the following exchange: "What would you like?", "Just a coke.", "What kind?", "Mountain Dew." Dismas |(talk) 05:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In Germany, all soft drinks are called "Limonade", and a lemonade would be Zitronenlimonade. Kinda similar. 86.154.105.143 (talk) 10:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Lemonade is not a "soft drink"! It's made by squeezing fresh lemons and adding water and sugar to taste.  Accept no substitutes!  --Trovatore (talk) 17:40, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless you also add alcohol to it, it *is* a "soft drink" (as opposed to a hard drink). While "soft drink" is most commonly used to refer to carbonated beverages like Coke/Pepsi/Sprite/7UP, that's not the defining feature. Additionally, 86.154 was referring to the German term "Limonade", not the English term "Lemonade". -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 23:23, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * And, of course, a link to lemonade is called for. Regional differences in language? Oh my goodness, how shocking. I only take comfort that User:Marco_polo is not here to be disillusioned by an American being intolerant of Commonwealth English (for lack of a better term). Oh! The seamy underbelly of oppression we toil under daily, hidden from the eyes of such people! In case this is unclear, this is sarcasm. Such assumptions that the rest of the world must conform to your own pattern are common on the web, but people less often meet, recognise, and remember when it is their own pattern that is being defended. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 00:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In this case my objection is not mainly linguistic. I did know about the linguistic difference, but it isn't the point.
 * The point is that genuine lemonade is good, whereas all those other things, 7-UP and Sprite and all the stuff they call "lemonade" in the UK, are bad. I object to the linguistic usage because I object to the drinks themselves, or more specifically with conflating them with something that's actually good. --Trovatore (talk) 18:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I can also tell the difference (also between Sprite and 7UP), but they are not so radically different that I am unable to drink one or the other. But maybe this is because I'm Canadian and we aren't so militant about this sort of thing. I mean, it's not like it's beer (if a pub only had Bud Light I would definitely order something else!). Adam Bishop (talk) 05:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * (just finished my Coke) as Bang-qiu Bugs said, Pepsi is quite a bit sweeter. I don't care for it at all. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 05:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The original question seems odd to me - they certainly do taste different in the UK. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Having lived all over the U.S., "Coke" versus "Soda" or "Pop" is a regional thing, and there's a map somewhere on the internet mapping the distribution of those phrases.
 * As for the actual flavors, CocaCola Classic is what we have most widespread in the U.S., and in Europe I don't remember the "classic" designation, and there is a difference between American Coke and European Coke. I remember reading that the whole Pepsi Challenge issue involved Pepsi having a higher sugar content that was good for a sip, but not for a whole 12 ounces. I don't know if that's true, however Coke did quickly switch back to the classic formula after "new" coke was introduced. I don't think it has anything to do with cane sugar versus corn syrup (molecularly sugar is 50% fructose anyway). This book has a very interesting take on the whole CocaCola thing. I definitely prefer the taste of American CocaCola Classic to whatever they have in Europe. Shadowjams (talk) 07:26, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * About "sugar being 50% fructose": Not exactly. Sucrose is formed from fructose and glucose by splitting off a water molecule; it's not the same as a mixture of fructose and glucose.  If you reverse the reaction to make a 50% molar mixture of fructose and glucose, that's called invert sugar I think.  There's no obvious reason it shouldn't be distinguishable by taste from sucrose. --Trovatore (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Whatever the sweetener is, glucose has a very different metabolism than fructose. Shadowjams (talk) 10:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * While Pepsi may be generally considered sweeter than Coke, it's interesting to note that Coke actually has more sugar in it, at least here in Canada. A can of Pepsi has 41 g sugar and a can of Coke has 42 g. I imagine it's the flavorings that make Pepsi seem sweeter. 75.157.57.12 (talk) 09:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Both taste the same to me - horrible!! Fragrantforever 08:30, 14 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fragrantforever (talk • contribs)

I don't think there is a difference from the American and the European coke. The "classic"-appellation in the US was to distinguish it from the New Coke, which was only released in the US. --Saddhiyama (talk) 08:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree from personal experience and taste. Shadowjams (talk) 10:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The UK coke tastes a lot more like Pepsi. I didn't believe this so we brought some UK coke and pepsi bottles to the USA and did a side by side comparison. The UK and USA pepsis tastes the same but the UK and USA cokes were different. I have been told that UK has the "new" Coke, which was unpopular in the USA but increased sales in the UK though I have not found a reference to this -- Q Chris (talk) 10:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's my experience too. Shadowjams (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I see. I haven't done a blind taste on them myself (in fact I have never tasted the American Coke), I was only basing my assumption on the information provided in the Coca Cola and New Coke articles. It would be nice if someone could find out if there is a difference in recipe between the US and European Coke and add it to the article. Quite relevant information imo. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I guarantee you my personal experience suggests that Coke in the U.K. for a time is vastly different than Coke in the U.S., at least during the time period I'm referring to. Shadowjams (talk) 10:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Upon further research it seems that it might have something to do with High fructose corn syrup vs cane sugar. At least according to this. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought I was right about that. Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 10:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * According to a blogspot page.......
 * Are you really proposing that European and North American versions of Coke are identical? Shadowjams (talk) 10:34, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not proposing anything, as I said I have not made a comparison myself. But I am trying to make sense out of the apparent confusion about whether there is a difference in taste regarding the US and European coke. So far the result has been that there is and that there isn't, according to the various Google hits. And not a single reliable source found on the matter as of yet. But it seems that hfcs is used in the US coke where it might very well be cane sugar in the European variant (although the blog doesn't mention anything about Europe, only Thailand), as well as the difference in taste that the local water might add as well. Which I guess would support your claim that there would be a markedly difference in taste after all. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * From personal tasting in a small group I would say its more than that, the UK Coke is sweater and tastes more like Pepsi. I used to think they were the same, but my wife (American) complained that the worst thing about living in the UK was that the coke didn't taste right. That's why we took UK coke to the USA when we visited to do a taste - and tasting them side by side it was clear that my wife was right and I was wrong, they were very different! -- Q Chris (talk) 11:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

They might taste identical to some after all the ice and lemon has been added, but Pepsi will retain its flavour longer against the diluting agent of a glass half full of frozen water. Vimescarrot (talk) 09:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Most people in the U.S. don't add lemon. Shadowjams (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that the real issue is one of trademarks, not taste. --173.49.10.26 (talk) 10:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The various Colas (of which Coke and Pepsi are only two) have individual formulas, and there are differences in the taste. I switched from Pepsi to Coke (i.e. Coke Classic) because I was finding Pepsi to be too sweet. Someone said earlier that the "taste test" that Pepsi kept "winning" was due to Pepsi tasting "better" when you're only having a sip, while as you drink more of it, Pepsi's sweetness starts to overwhelm. But some folks like the Pepsi taste better. I don't think it's driven by brand loyalty as such. Oh, and Sprite and 7Up taste differently also. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There was some legal action by the manufacturers against retail outlets in the US that served Pepsi when asked for a Coke (or vice versa) that made servers very particular about specifying what they were actually serving.  Acroterion  (talk)  14:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It's basic customer service. If someone shows up and asks for specific brand by name, you don't give them some other brand and hope they don't notice!
 * (And I do agree with everyone else... For those of us who drink an unhealthy amount of soda the taste difference is noticeable. I'm irritated when a waiter brings me a Pepsi without asking. If I'd known it was a Pepsi-only establishment I would have ordered a Mountain Dew.) APL (talk) 14:38, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You may have seen the TV ad some years back featuring Ray Charles, who was hawking Pepsi, and "unknowingly" was given a Coke instead. He took a sip and said, "Hmm. All right, now, who's the wise guy?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Possibly a bit of a stretch but under the Sale of Goods legislation in the UK goods MUST be "as described". If you ask for a coke you could mean "I want the branded Coca-Cola soft drink" - if the server didn't get your verbal consent to serve Pepsi they could theoretically break the law by serving you something different to your request. Exxolon (talk) 16:48, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * We're talking about two different mixtures that are typically water and high-fructose corn syrup with hints of cola flavor. In the U.S., Coke and Pepsi often grant discounts to restaurant chains in return for exclusivity, which is why in the U.S. you typically can't get Pepsi at McDonald's or Coca-Cola at Taco Bell.  At a certain level of abstration, despite the preferences expressed above, they're both colas.  So you order Coke, the server says, in effect, we don't have that particular flavor of sugared water but we have a different one; would you like that instead? --- OtherDave (talk) 17:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's like saying all hamburgers are alike. They may all be the same nutrionally, but they taste different from chain to chain. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:24, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm just surprised that no one has brought up John Belushi's Greek-diner-owner skits in this thread yet. The ref-deskers are being very sober today. Deor (talk) 19:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, SNL's version of Billy Goat's. Memories. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:22, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * In the past, at any rate (don't know if they still do this), Coke would send their employees into restaurants and order a "Coke". If they got any other product, they would then report back to their employers, who would take appropriate action with the restaurant.  Generally, they'd ask the owner if they'd like to switch from their current cola drink to Coke brand.  Everard Proudfoot (talk) 19:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * There are people who will say "No" to the question. I know someone who only drinks Diet Coke, and if offered a Diet Pepsi will have another type of drink instead. More importantly, even some people who will begrudgingly accept a Pepsi would be offended if they asked for Coke and received a Pepsi without being warned one was coming. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Bugs, my comment was not about the inherent virtue of one kind of sugared water over another. I was suggesting to the OP that one reason a server will offer you X when you ask for Y is that the business has a contract under which they only have X.  Whichever chain has the platonic egg sandwich, if you're ordering an Egg McMuffin at Burger King, they're likely to offer a substitute for that as well. --- OtherDave (talk) 23:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. Your typical restaurant will have a sign and/or menu item making it clear whether they serve Coke or Pepsi products (or whatever). If Coke vs. Pepsi matters to you, then you need to pay attention. If not, then any old cola will do, presumably. (Maybe not Dr. Pepper) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:51, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, yeah, I'm one of those. I detest Diet Pepsi, so if they don't have Diet Coke, I'll go with iced tea.  Everard Proudfoot (talk) 18:13, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess it just depends on how much of a connoisseur you are. Someone who rarely drinks soft drink might use the word "coke" to refer to any cola and not care about the difference.  Similarly, someone who rarely drinks red wine might not care if they are getting a syrah or a merlot.  I'd like to point out that in some regions of the US, the word "coke" refers to and soft drink, even clear or orange ones.  —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 18:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, especially in the American south, as noted earlier (Coke was invented in the south). More generally in the US, facial tissue is "Kleenex", a paper copy is a "Xerox", etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to chime in on the HFCS/sugar discussion above, which didn't seem to reach a conclusion, the recipe is indeed different for various territories; eg:
 * UK – Ingredients: Carbonated water, sugar, colour (caramel E150d), phosphoric acid, flavourings (including caffeine)
 * USA – Ingredients: Carbonated water, high-fructose corn syrup, caramel color, phosphoric acid, natural flavors, caffeine
 * I can assure you that the difference between sugar and HFCS is very noticeable. Local sellers here in the UK often stock imported Coke, and I've tasted both the American and (I believe) Egyptian versions, which both use corn syrup.  The taste is vastly inferior to Coke made with proper sugar, and the mouthfeel in particular is unpleasant.
 * Oh and to answer the OP's question, I find there to be a clear difference in taste between the two major brands and do indeed refuse Pepsi when Coke is unavailable. I am also very disappointed when a seller withholds this information, but I unfortunately suffer from the British affliction which means I'll do nothing about it except grumble quietly while sipping my unwanted Pepsi.  AJ Cham  19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In North America, Coke produces a sugar version for Jewish Passover. Corn is apparently not kosher for Passover.  It excites a lot of soda aficionados and nostalgic types because it supposedly tastes the way Coke did before the switch to corn syrup.  Although the Toronto Star says the HFCS version won their taste test.  And I also might turn down a Pepsi if I'd asked for Coke, even for water.  I'm only going to drink something that unhealthy if I really enjoy it. --JGGardiner (talk) 22:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I will not drink Coke in the US as I find the taste much worse than in Canada. I wonder about that: does the water at the bottling plant contribute?  Also9, fountain vs. Bottled seems to make a big difference.  I can't stand fountain Coke in the US, but Fountain Pepsi is great.  The bottled versions are the exact opposite for me. 72.2.54.34 (talk) 00:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Naming convention of British Army equipment
Wikipedia has a page on the equipment used by the British Army. I noticed that many models of the equipment have designations like L...A... What does the letter "L" stand for? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.10.26 (talk) 10:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Our article SA80 says (without a source) that it stands for "Land Service". That also seems to be the prevailing opinion among random people on the Internet, and the bit of "Encyclopaedia of the Modern British Army" shown in the third search result here seems to confirm it. Deor (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

How Many American Tourists Visit The European Union Each Summer
...and visa versa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.51.107 (talk) 16:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * This PDF on page 27 says there were 29 million tourist arrivals to Europe from North America, in 2008 (not segmented by the summer or by the USA specifically, unfortunately). Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:59, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * That's a good start. If I can now find how many Americans went to Europe in 2008, I'd be happy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.51.107 (talk) 17:08, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * This site looks useful, although its numbers are from 2004. --Tango (talk) 17:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * As an aside, how many of the circa 300 million US citizens currently hold a passport? 92.30.102.184 (talk) 23:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The New York Times, in January 2007, reported that "according to the State Department, an estimated 27 percent of Americans currently carry a valid passport." (No specific source given.) So, 80 million or thereabouts now, say. Maybe more, if you count the passport card that gets you into other parts of North America if you're not going by air. --- OtherDave (talk) 02:34, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Meta-question
The Wikipedia article Meta notes that a meta-answer is not a real answer but a reply, such as: "this is not a good question",... The knowledge that I need but I don't yet posess, since I have no Metaknowledge, is whether a meta-question is an ungood question for which there is a good answer, or a good question for which there is no answer, or something else. Please help me understand the term meta-question. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I have added to the title the words "Renamed to avoid problems with table of contents", for the reason given. This reformatting of the title, as we would with a title that said "question" or "query", retains the original title in brackets, so that Cuddlyable can find their question again using the find function in their browser. If it didn't break the formatting, I would have left it. 86.163.212.254 (talk) 22:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've slightly altered that - to preserve the original title at the beginning of heading - easier to find /
 * ...I've not read the article, but if the term "meta-question" was used generally around the Internet, it would mean "a question about a question" (much as your meta-answer is "an answer about an answer"). If you were after language specifics and not general use, that answer won't help you, of course. Vimescarrot (talk) 18:12, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Couldn't a metaquestion on the Reference Desk be a question about the reference desk? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:32, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's precisely what it means. There is no "could" involved. --Tango (talk) 20:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Surely that wouldn't be a "question about a question" though. It's just a question about the reference desk. If someone asked: "are all reference desk questions pointless?" that would be a meta-question. 129.234.53.144 (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

OP here. I wonder whether a meta-question is a good question that is not to be asked, such as "Don't ask me what this has to do with toilet paper!" Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

What is the best (free) tool to convert .avi to animated Graphics Interchange Format?
Please tell, and from where I can download it ? -- Jon Ascton    (talk)  21:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Irfanview will save a movie as a series of bitmap files, which is half the battle. (Options->extract all frames) From there I suggest using GIMP along with this plug-in for optimization. ...In fact I think you can import movies directly into GIMP; here  is a (rather old) tutorial. 81.131.22.238 (talk) 21:53, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * See also the "mplayer" (see SMPlayer) examples in Commons:Help talk:Converting video - just replace the "video.ogv" with the name of your avi file. Another free tool that might work for you (but I find it creates poor quality GIFs) is SUPER video converter. Other resources might be found linked from Commons:Commons:Animated image resources, for example: Graphic Lab. -84user (talk) 00:09, 15 July 2010 (UTC)