Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 July 20

= July 20 =

Inglourious Basterds
I watched this movie tonight on TV and later did a bit of fact finding about it on Wikipedia and also IMDB, and having noted that it was very successful at the box-office, I was taken aback at how many of its actors were actually German, and that it had been partly filmed in Germany. But what really surprised me was how well it had perfomed financially when released in German cinemas (with some alterations to remove swastika symbols in order to comply with German Law). But I am left curious to know how it was actually received by German audiences, given its over-riding theme of violence, both to and by the Germans in France during WWII, and by the scalping of German soldiers and carving of swastikas on their foreheads and the fictional killing by fire and guns of Hitler, Goering, Goebbels and Borman (and hundreds of other Germans in the closing scenes). Does anyone here know how it was received by its German audiences who spent over $4 million on tickets to watch it? 92.30.1.241 (talk) 01:31, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's too bad we don't have a spoiler template any more. I could have benefited from seeing one before reading this question.  (I haven't seen the film yet and now know something about the ending)  Dismas |(talk) 01:56, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't help but agree with Dismas on that. I saw Inglourious Basterds (or "Inglourious B*****ds" as Sky show on their EPG) was on tonight, but it was already halfway through, so thought to myself "I'll make a point of watching that tomorrow". TBH, there is no need to go into that much detail for the purposes of your question.  Astronaut (talk) 02:31, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * First person original research: As for the violence, it was typical Tarantino - extremely graphical and somewhat over the top. Either you like that, or you don't. I don't think it matters much who is on the receiving side. Moreover, most of today's "Germans" do not identify with 1940s "Nazis". For one data point, I liked it, but I liked Pulp Fiction more, and I found Kill Bill (part 1) much more intense and disturbing. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh come on Guys - you really don't want any detailed discussion here on Wiki on a subject that has been in the public domain for over a year and has been extensively reviewed across the whole spectrum of the media -  in case you might want to discover for yourself (in camera) the context of it a year after it first appeared on film???? Get real. Stephen, thanks for your pragmatic response which is much appreciated. 92.30.139.11 (talk) 10:19, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I agree. Please don't tell me what happens at the end of The Bible as I keep intending to read it and don't want to find out on Wiki. 80.192.57.134 (talk) 11:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Spoiler alert! Everyone gets burned at the end. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Stephan Schulz; few German Tarantino fans would take umbrage at seeing Nazis being slaughtered. The swastikas had to be removed from the posters by the way, because of the Swastikaverbot. I don't know whether you read German, but there is something on reception in Germany under de:Inglourious_Basterds. First of all, it is interesting to note that the film was co-financed by German subsidizing institituions (mainly the Deutscher Filmförderfond, the German Federal Film Fund). Together, these German funds gave 7.7 million EUR, over 10% of the production costs. A lot of people I spoke to highlighted Christoph Waltz's performance. Criticism in the media was mixed, but I only saw one review, by a Zeit journalist, expressing offense being taken. The title is "Scalp the Germans!" and the critic sees I.B. as a fantasy of revenge. He concludes that Tarantino misuses Nazis and Jews for a "film aesthetic beyond all moral intention". Tarantino fans will likely scratch their head and say "Duh?" ---Sluzzelin  talk  14:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks Sluzzelin for that informed and informative response - I really do appreciate that. I was born after the war and have no personal vendetta against Germany or its people, and I do welcome Germans I have met abroad and here in the UK into my home, and we do discuss such matters as the foregoing. But from their sometimes sensitive exploratory questions about how we Brits perceive the German people and their history of Naziism, I get the impression, as you suggest in your response, that obviously, there must be some who would see I.B. as "A fantasy of Revenge", which strangely, was an emotion I experienced as I watched it, which worried me personally, and that's what prompted my question on Wiki. But I do apologise to those sensitive souls above for whom my question spoiled the surprise. My thanks and my apologies to all. 92.30.175.183 (talk) 15:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Sports stuff that draws crowds regularly
I went and saw the Stanley Cup yesterday and I started to wonder: What other sports-related object brings such reverence from the fans such that it is pretty much guaranteed to draw huge crowds. The Stanley Cup brought thousands through its tour around Vancouver and environs with this year's winner, and I imagine it would continue to do so if it came more often.

I can think of the Grey Cup and maybe The Ashes because both, like the Stanley Cup, are enduring symbols, the same artifact year after year. Do people care about the trophies of NBA/NFL/MLB, all of which are new each year to my understanding. Anything else in other parts of the world, or any other items? Aaronite (talk) 01:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * There was a story recently about the World Cup trophy. I don't know if people make pilgrimages to see it, especially since the original was stolen a few decades ago. But it's a unique trophy. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:03, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I have (well, there exists somewhere) a picture of me with the MLB trophy, which was on tour and passed through Toronto at some point (I'm pretty sure it was before the Jays won it). It's not a new trophy every year, is it? Are the NBA and NFL ones new each year? They always look exactly the same. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:39, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The World Cup one is the same since the 70s. Not so for the Vince Lombardi Trophy, the Commissioner's Trophy (MLB) or the Larry O'Brien Trophy.  At any rate, the question stands, even with those trophies.  Do they draw the crowds? Aaronite (talk) 04:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * After the Red Sox won a couple years ago, the MLB trophy went "on tour". It made it up here to Vermont somewhere.  Not being a big baseball fan, I don't remember where it showed up or for how long.  Dismas |(talk) 04:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The Claret Jug, symbol of The Open Golf Championship, must be one of the most recognisable. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:02, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The FA Cup. Dalliance (talk) 10:31, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Anything Dale Earnhardt drove. Recury (talk) 18:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Criminal laws applying to only one person
In the course of wandering through our various articles, I happened on the one on high treason, and decided to click over to the Italian version, it:alto tradimento, and see what it said.

Turns out that in Italy, high treason is a charge that can be lodged only against the President of the Republic! This, not surprisingly, has never happened (well, they've only had 62 years; give them time).

And it occurred to me to wonder whether anyone knew of any other crimes of which only one person in an entire country can even be accused.

In the United States, the only thing I can think of that's sort of similar is the vaguely-worded "high crimes and misdemeanors" that justify impeachment. But that's not a specific crime, and it can be applied to the president, the vice president, and all federal judges. --Trovatore (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Impeachment lists some countries where it notes only one person as impeachable: Austria, Croatia, Germany, India, Romania, Russia. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:05, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That's interesting, thanks.
 * I wonder whether it's really true about Italy. The Italian article doesn't specifically say that no one else can be charged with alto tradimento, but it's the only case they mention. --Trovatore (talk) 23:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The OP says "against one person", but technically it's against the office-holder, not a particular person. Nitpicky, yes. But for example, we could have impeached Bush anytime between 1-20-2001 and 1-20-2009, but we didn't, so now it's Obama's turn, if it comes to that. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Old time banishment perhaps, where it would be illegal for the specific person banished to return? Googlemeister (talk) 18:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe at some time during 2009 the New South Wales government passed a law preventing Dennis Ferguson from being re-located in certain areas in their state. Not a crime, but certainly a law applying to a single person.Jabberwalkee (talk) 15:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Our article simply suggests:
 * In September, 2009, in response to public anger at Ferguson living in the Ryde area, the Government of New South Wales under Premier Nathan Rees moved to introduce legislation to allow the government to evict child sex offenders from public housing. Critics dubbed the legislation the Dennis Ferguson Act, and said it was created as a result of the state government caving in to vigilantism.[13]
 * Which seems more likely to me. Governments making laws in response to certain cases and people is not uncommon but they usually do make those laws generic Nil Einne (talk) 01:03, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * There are some laws known as private bills that only touch named individuals. Probably the best-known concerns divorce in Britain; prior to the passage of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1857, only the very rich could afford one, by annulment or by taking their case to the Houses of Parliament. A private bill is "a proposal for a law that would apply to a particular individual or group of individuals, or corporate entity". BrainyBabe (talk) 16:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

job dilemma
in the search for job i always come across a situation i..e an MBA degree which i do not have and hence not qualified for the job inspite of meeting all the required criteria for experience and the rest. i do not have the resource/time/inclination to enroll for MBA, so what should be my rebuttal for not having it, is there someting like "aplied for an online mba" will help? please suggest and help me out of this..thanks in anticipation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 13:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately most vacancies these days receive many many applications from well qualified people such as yourself. Something like possession of an MBA is one of the things personnel departments do to cut down the number of applicants into a long list.  I would say that you probably won't get very far with vacancies for which an MBA is a requirement and you should lower your sights to jobs where it is not. --Viennese Waltz talk 13:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand you can achieve breakthrough and at least get onto the long list. It takes creativity. You need to create a presentation that will strike through to the key issues of importance to the employer. Remember that the initial screening is probably being done by a relatively minor staff member who basically has to see if an application "ticks the boxes" It is he or she that screens and he or she will see dozens of CVs that all follow the same pattern. Dare to be different ! What have you got to lose ?Froggie34 (talk) 14:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Just as an example: My wife wanted to work back stage at a London theatre. She was told it was impossible to get a job. Closed shop. She actually was offered six interviews (out of 19 applications). Her breakthrough was to use an A3 sheet of bright yellow paper and create her "CV" using text, pictures, sketches, anecdotes. She was applying to creative people, of course. She was a Principal Dresser within three years.Froggie34 (talk) 14:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Your mileage may vary. Most business type jobs would probably just throw out a resume with pictures, sketches and bright colors.   Googlemeister (talk) 14:11, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Though I do know someone who got a job at a small software house by applying on "postman pat" paper. The CEO/company owner had a similar silly sense of humour! -- Q Chris (talk) 14:14, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The degree of 'uniqueness' that is likely to be beneficial (or that you can even get away with) is going to vary greatly from company to company, and indeed from person to person &mdash; if your CV passes through the hands of one person who lacks a suitable sense of humor, you may be in trouble. Generally speaking, the 'unusual' CV is going to go over better with (very) small firms that lack a full human resources department, and with companies whose line of business involves a creative component (marketing, design, artistic stuff).
 * I would tend to avoid getting too bizarre. Bear in mind that it is possible to have a 'creative' CV that is elegant, polished, clear, and still highly professional in appearance.  It doesn't need to be on colored paper, and it definitely shouldn't employ Comic Sans.  Remember that you selling a product; that product just happens to be you.  The CV or resume is just a pamphlet you're handing out to get people interested.  Are the important specs readily gleaned from the product sheet?  Is the prospective buyer able to see how you meet their needs?  Have you avoided inundating the reader with a giant wall-o-text? Proper use of whitespace may be the most important aspect of making a document readable.  Visual cues like indents, horizontal rules, and a restrained use of different typefaces can all make a huge difference to efficient readability.  Make damn sure that your spelling and grammar are impeccable; if necessary, get a friend to look things over for you.  Don't write your resume or cover letter the same way that you would write a text message or a casual email to a friend (or the way that you've written your question here).
 * Having said all that, the fact remains that you don't meet the standards set out by the job ad. Some employers deliberately ask for more qualifications and hope to get lucky; others will consider the MBA a minimum standard that must be met.  Unfortunately, for most employers, the first stage of resume screening is to throw out as many applications as possible.  The screener will be looking for reasons to get rid of applicants, because calling people in for interviews is costly and time-consuming.  Your might address your lack of an MBA in a covering letter ("While I have not completed an MBA, I believe that my extensive/relevant/respected/whatever business experience at Alpha, Beta, and Gamma will be a valuable asset to the FooCorp's widget division").  That's not what you lead with, but don't act like you're hiding something.  You might consider declaring an interest in a part-time/online MBA program during your employment.  (Don't assert something you've not given serious thought to, however, and definitely don't claim that you've applied for a program if you haven't.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * (ec) As the OP is discovering, there is competition for jobs and having an MBA is not necessarily the only key to getting a job. But the reality is that there are people who do make the effort to obtain an MBA and it is not obvious why someone who never had the "resource/time/inclination" to do so should displace one of them from the job they have worked to get. It is no excuse to say that you always are in the situation of needing an MBA because that just means you are probably chasing the wrong jobs and overlooking ones that you actually fit. This sounds harsh but you must revise your confidence that you already meet all the required criteria, and a good start will be to improve your English grammar if you plan to APPLY (correct spelling) for jobs in that language. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:27, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * We don't know what your background is, but one common rebuttal of a degree being acquired is "I have equivalent hands-on job experience". To an employer, the MBA is shorthand for having a certain amount of knowledge and tenacity.  Having had several years of success in the field is going to be just as valuable, in the eyes of most employers.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, that is usually a good approach. I'm not sure it applies for an MBA, though. Usually you need to have several years experience before you can even take an MBA (eg. see ). MBAs are intended to provide skills you wouldn't get just from experience so I don't think employers will accept experience in lieu of an MBA like they would for other degrees. --Tango (talk) 16:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd second the caution against claiming that you are studying for a qualification (online or otherwise) when you are not. Distance learning is every bit as taxing as in-house study in a college or university, and will usually take longer because the student is fitting study time around his/her other commitments. If you claim to have enrolled on a distance learning MBA and get as far as the interview, your interviewer will undoubtedly ask which MBA you're doing, with which institution, and how far your course has progressed. Facts like this are checkable, and no employer is going to appoint someone who, during the interview, is found to have lied on the application form.  Ka renjc 16:31, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Alway be a tryer - do not be afraid of failure. Have a go. That motto about regretting the things you didnt do rather than the things you did is very true. 92.28.243.14 (talk) 19:22, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I had three years of experience before I applied for second job which required graduation as minimum qualification and I am undergraduate. I was surprised to get interview call, only to find that the interviewer was visibly upset when he realized that I am undergraduate and he called up those who shortlisted me and was told that it was just a mistake to call undergraduate candidate. He apologized for the mistake but said I am not eligible. I only said that it is serious mistake because in covering letter I had clearly mentioned that "you need not call me for interview if academics takes precedence over excellence and experience". Then he checked the letter and went out of the cabin, returned, interviewed me and I got the job. Later I was told that he showed the covering letter to directors who were impressed by the statement and they ordered to hire me; my interview was only a formality. - manya (talk) 04:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Leo Laporte's visit to the Mustang factory
Does anyone know when Leo will be going to the factory? He mentioned it a couple of weeks ago on his Tech Guy show but it seems to have been forgotten. Does anyone who listens to the TWiT network have any ideas? Thanks. Chevy monte  carlo  - alt 16:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess no one knows :( never mind. Chevy  monte  carlo  - alt 07:06, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, I know! Next weekend, during Maker Faire, although I'm not sure on the exact day. I'm almost certain though that it's Saturday. katherine_a (talk) 16:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes! Thanks a lot :D I love that show. Chevy  monte  carlo  08:45, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Urban Legend or History
I remember reading about a Russian or Armenian stage actor, who was also an officer. He was posted to some frontier town during WWI when a regiment of angry infantrymen bent upon rebellion, railed right behind their seniors, whom they held in gross contempt for some reason or other. There was no way anyone could stop them from slaughter except our hero. He did. How ? by acting before them ! He started reciting passionately the lines from Hamlet or something like that. They got so involved with his performance that they forgot their anger and went back in peace. When did this happen, if it did. And who was this great real-life hero ? The guy's name should be something like Vahan Shatouni, no link on Wikipedia of course. Only three on google but unfortunately none works, the last is actually to an Indian book by Pustak Mahal, I am reading. This book is the only source (that's quite unnatural) that carries the story, thus needs further investigation Jon Ascton   (talk)  19:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Déjà vu. 92.28.243.14 (talk) 19:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, didn't we have this exact question a few days ago with almost exactly the same wording? --Tango (talk) 23:26, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup. Removed from there, already. Or is it not legitimate ?


 * How do we approach snopes.com (if that is a good idea) for help  Jon Ascton    (talk)  23:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * You might try their message board. Dismas |(talk) 00:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The Pustak Mahal article you linked suggests that this is probably the name of the publisher, not the author. Can you confirm the actual author's name (if any is given), and give us the title? Are you sure that the book in question is not actually a work of fiction (which sometimes can appear at a casual glance to be factual as part of their mystique)? If the book purports to be factual, be aware that the article - which appears to be promotional material written by the Pustak Mahal company - contains clues suggesting that they might be at least in part a Vanity Press, which means that they may not check the veracity of everything they publish. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I am quite sure it's non-fiction. Writer is Abhay Kumar Dubey. Pustak Mahal is one of India's leading and respectable publishers. Here is the book
 * Sounds a little bit like this, from our Emperor Norton article:
 * "Ugly riots, some resulting in fatalities, broke out on several occasions. During one such incident, Norton allegedly positioned himself between the rioters and their Chinese targets, and with a bowed head started reciting the Lord's Prayer repeatedly until the rioters dispersed without incident." Paul (Stansifer) 15:33, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

peugeot toy cars
Where can I find toy cars of peugeot, citroen, renault, alfa romeo and fiat, and aston martin, jaguar, roll-royce, bentley, and mercedes-benz and bwm and volkswagen, audi, and opel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.130 (talk) 19:37, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Here are many sources of model cars, if that is what you mean by "toy" cars. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You might be able to find some of them from Matchbox or Hot Wheels. Having just gone through their web sites though, I didn't see too many of the European brands.  Though, with Hot Wheels, I could only see the 2010 and 2009 releases.  Matchbox's site was even more useless.  Dismas |(talk) 02:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Bburago and Maisto both produce cars from these brands. Chevy  monte  carlo  - alt 07:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course, you can often frequently find them for sale on eBay. --Phil Holmes (talk) 08:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Council estates
1). Do council estate tenants pay Council tax? They did not pay rates in the past. If they don't pay, do their rents reflect this, or are they being double-subsidised with low rents and no Council tax, as well as bigger houses? 2) How do the per capita GDP and crime rates on a council estate compare with non-council estates? Thanks 92.28.243.14 (talk) 21:25, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The answer to the first part appears to be yes. Not sure about the second part. Enter CBW, waits for audience applause, not a sausage. 03:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That link does not mention anything about council estates. and CBW does not apear to be British and hence would be unlikely to have local knowledge. 92.28.255.176 (talk) 08:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * How would "crime rates on a council estate" be defined (as distinct from measured)? Would you be counting crimes geographically committed in an estate (whether by its residents or by people who actually live elsewhere)? Crimes committed regardless of location by an estate's tenants? How do you take into account the non-homogeneous make-up of many estates (given that many former council houses have been sold to private occupants)?
 * With that question settled, are either crime rates or "GDP" contributions actually measured by anyone on such a basis as council house occupancy? Would it be possible (and legal) to do so? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. If it were possible to obtain such data, what use would it be, and would the possibility (likelihood?) of its being misused for malevolent purposes outweigh any benefits of having it? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 06:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

By crime rates I meant the proportion of convicted criminals in the population. I'm wondering what council estates would be like if all the council estates in Britain were magically made into a seperate country - where they would be compared with the various indicies of other countries. And what the non-council estate part of Britain would be like as a country. 92.28.255.176 (talk) 08:45, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Council estates don't have any sort of special status. Council tenants, whether or not they live on a council estate, do pay council tax.  See, for instance, .  Depending on income, anyone, including a council tenant, may be eligible for Council Tax Benefit.
 * On crime, figures aren't generally available at a sufficiently detailed level, particularly not for things like "proportion of convicted criminals". Besides, that would be pretty meaningless as a measure of crime.  You can obtain some useful statistics from this site, by locating wards or super output areas which primarily contain council housing.  Logically, I would expect a higher proportion of council tenants to have a criminal conviction than the population as a whole, because crime and poverty are linked in various ways (e.g. people with criminal convictions are likely to struggle to find work, and poorer people are often more likely to be charged with and convicted of crimes). Warofdreams talk 10:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Since the "Right to Buy" came in in 1980, council estates have been mixed owner/occupied, local authority tenants or private tenants (with the rise of buy-to-let during the 1990s). Therefore, any attempt to categorise people according to their area of residence is based on a situation which has not existed for over 20 years. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:03, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, the rates were always payable by landlords rather than tenants. Landlords obviously adjusted the level of rent to cover the rates, or required a separate payment for rates. A payment for rates was imposed on council tenants, but it was payable along with the rent, so in that sense the rates were "included" in the rent. Also, I endorse Tammy's above comment, and would further point out that "social housing" is by no long limited to council housing. Housing associations are major landlords. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe non-council tenants usually paid the rates in addition to the rent. 92.24.185.33 (talk) 18:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Is it legit; how can I check?
A friend of mine is considering using Alertpay (which is on Wikipedia's blacklist, so I can't post the link). My first recourse would be to check its Wikipedia article, which doesn't exist, unfortunately. Does anyone know if this particular site is trustworthy? And more importantly, for sites which I'm giving sensitive information in general, how can I be confident if a website is safe to trust? Presumably there are ways to check, I just don't know what they are. Vimescarrot (talk) 23:32, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * U R right. A page Alertpay has been deleted. But what the hell is this Alertpay ?  Jon Ascton    (talk)  23:40, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's an online payment service provider. Vimescarrot (talk) 23:53, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Why that one and not one of the more established ones, like PayPal? Clarityfiend (talk) 00:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Because apparently, Alertpay is the one that http://www.sofurry.com/ uses. Vimescarrot (talk) 01:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Presumably there is a good reason why Wikipedia blacklists their site, and the article has been deleted. That alone would ring alarm bells for me.--Shantavira|feed me 07:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Articles have been deleted on several occasions at AlertPay, too, but as copyvios and later as blatant advertising. The suggestion that somebody presumably connected with the company has attempted to promote it using Wikipedia may or may not matter to you, but don't in general assume that a deleted article means that an organisation is untrustworthy. Warofdreams talk 09:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not proof, but combined with the fact that no third party thought it was worth enough to write an article about, it certainly should raise a few eyebrows. -- 174.24.196.51 (talk) 16:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I googled for "Alertpay scam" and read LOTS of comments about them. From what I gather, they are a perfectly legitimate online "bank" - much like PayPal - and they are well-intentioned.  However, they do seem to be something of a honeypot for people and businesses who are anything but legitimate!  People who have been blocked from using PayPal (for example) seem to immediately switch to AlertPay in order to carry on their nefarious ways.  So the general view appears to be that while you can trust AlertPay - you have to be extra-super-cautious about businesses that accept AlertPay if they don't also accept PayPal.  Think about that.  Why would a legitimate company accept a little-known service with an unremarkable track-record and not the world leader in online cash transfers?  I should explain that this is just a broad impression I've gotten from reading lots of blogs and forums - there is no real solid evidence here. SteveBaker (talk) 02:11, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In this case, the answer may be PayPal won't allow the sort of business we're talking here it probably falls foul (or should that be fowl?) of their "considered obscene" term (or perhaps they do but people think they don't). In other cases it may of course be the fees (I believe some prefer Moneybookers for that reason). Of course some don't like PayPal's policies towards sellers/merchants which while is something to be suspicious of it's worth remembering there are dodgy buyers out there who cost sellers. Nil Einne (talk) 19:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)