Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 June 28

= June 28 =

Global Warming
Have Bjørn Lomborg, Penn Jillette, and Teller heard about Al Gore's documentary film An Inconvenient Truth? Have they heard about his book An Inconvenient Truth: The Planetary Emergency of Global Warming and What We Can Do About It? Have they watched the documentary film An Inconvenient Truth? Have they read the book An Inconvenient Truth? Do they own a copy of a DVD of the documentary film An Inconvenient Truth? Do they own a copy of the book An Inconvenient Truth?

If so, then what do they think about them? What do they think about the documentary film An Inconvenient Truth? What do they think about the book An Inconvenient Truth? How did they react and respond to them? If not, then what would they think about them? What would they think about the documentary film An Inconvenient Truth? What would they think about the book An Inconvenient Truth? How would they react and respond to them?

Do they know why Al Gore made the documentary film and wrote the book? What do they think about why Al Gore made the documentary film and wrote the book? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.60.151 (talk) 09:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Do they know what the title means? Do they know why Al Gore called and decided to call them by the title? What do they think about the title? What do they think about what the title means? What do they think about why Al Gore called and decided to call them by the title?

Do they know that Al Gore is an environmentalist? What do they think about him? How much did Penn Jillette and Teller vote for Al Gore in the 1992, 1996, and 2000 United States presidential elections? Who did they vote for in the 2000 United States presidential election, George Bush or Al Gore? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.60.151 (talk) 7:39 pm, Today (UTC+12)


 * Season 1, episode 13 of Penn & Teller: Bullshit! deals specifically with environmentalism. And while it was broadcast three years before An Inconvenient Truth was released, I have no doubt that Penn & Teller are aware of Al Gore and the film/book.  I'd say that over 95% of the educated public of the US is familiar with or at least aware of the film.  As for their political views, both Penn and Teller are libertarians.  Dismas |(talk) 08:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, in episode 6 of season 6 "Penn and Teller look at the climate change debate and question Al Gore's motives." So yes, they know about Al Gore and feel that he is an "Egregiously Pushy Asshole".  Dismas |(talk) 08:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Bjørn Lomborg is clearly well aware of Al Gore and his documentary; this article notes a debate at which Lomborg challenged Gore directly. Warofdreams talk 08:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the same question from the science desk, please don't cross post particularly when it is mostly OT anyway. In addition either sign your post with four tildes ~ or don't remove the signature when others add it Nil Einne (talk) 08:23, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Will I get a criminal record??
Hi, Ive never been pulled up by the police for any infraction before and am scared/curious as to what happens now.

I was recently stopped By police with a group of friends for drinking in public in an alcohol free zone. I am 17 and had never encountered the police before and was scared/in shock. At first I gave a fake name - then realised that that was a stupid idea and quickly told the truth.

A) Does any of This go on a Criminal Record? B) If it does, does it go on a juvenille record and not be held against me once I am over 18? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.78.92.3 (talk) 08:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * It probably depends on where in the world you are. In Germany, I'm fairly certain that nothing as trivial as that will go onto a permanent criminal record. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I would be almost certain it's the same story in the UK as well. Chevy  monte  carlo  - alt 12:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Chevy. It would only go on a record in UK if you had been prosecuted and found guilty by a court. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  12:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Not so, cautions, reprimands and final warnings will go on record in the UK, and juvenile offences are still part of your record after you turn 18 in the UK. The OP should consult a lawyer if he is concerned. DuncanHill (talk) 12:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't seem to be the whole story. First according to Police caution, cautions aren't issued to people 17 years and under so if the OP were in the UK then it seems if our article is reliable they can't have been issued a 'caution' as such so cautions are irrelevant. According to Reprimand (UK law), reprimands do go on the record but only stay past 18 if they were issued more recently then 5 years ago in which case they stay for 5 years. This would mean the reprimand should be gone by the time they turn 23. I'm not entirely sure if it stays on the record as such after 5 years, but I presume it's almost never disclosed (if it is then the situation is rather odd compared to that for adults which seem unlikely to me).
 * While cautions aren't particularly relevant, according to our article supported by while they do stay on the record permanently, depending on the type of caution you don't have to disclose you've had a caution if asked either from the moment one is issued or 3 months later unless it's a case when the post (i.e. why they're asking if you have had a caution) is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. It does normally stay on the record permanently but depending on the type of offence, the reason for the check and the length of time it may not even be disclosed when someone does a background check.
 * Of course since the OP doesn't seem to be in the UK none of this seems to be relevant but anyway... Nil Einne (talk) 08:29, 29 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Assuming you are in New South Wales, where your IP address is based, These links   might be helpful. My understanding (and this is not to be taken as legal advice) is that the police may give a caution for underage possession. The Police caution article says that cautions do go on the criminal record under English law, but NSW law may differ (for one thing, the article also states that cautions are only given to adults under English law).
 * I'm sorry this isn't the answer to your question, but it might help you understand the issues. It would help you if you know whether you have been given a caution. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't shouldn't do legal advice for legal/ethical reasons. Ask a lawyer. I wish you the best of luck. Falconus p t   c 16:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I would suggest asking the police. I don't think we have sufficient information to answer this question, but the police will know if they gave a formal caution or not. I don't see any need to consult a lawyer. --Tango (talk) 16:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Alien?
Are these pics of an alien ? Jon Ascton   (talk)  09:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt it, good sir. That creature is most likely a heavily mutated common animal or one that has suffered a rare disease of some sort. It is also possible that it has been photoshopped in such ways, or if I may say it, an outright plastic fake. 64.75.158.193 (talk) 11:23, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There are enough sad things that can go wrong in fetal development that there's no need to cry 'alien' or 'monster' when we see one of them. I found a discussion of some of the possibilities among the folks at Snopes- they don't have anything more than the picture, just like us, but personally, I found the 'holoprosencephalic calf' theory the most plausible.  One of them asked a Thai person, who said that the pictured ceremony isn't praying to the dead animal, but praying for its spirit, since the early death of an animal is unlucky for the community. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:52, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There are some pretty obvious "photoshopping" artifacts in two of those pictures - and the perspective in the two photos doesn't match the scale of the "body"...so it's pretty safe to say that it's a fake. SteveBaker (talk) 20:22, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I see no obvious evidence of photoshopping or faulty perspective. -- BenRG (talk) 22:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * You may not, BenRG, but are you, like SteveBaker, an experienced professional in a field encompassing video display? That said, perhaps Steve might, if he feels so inclined, point out a couple of the artifacts explicitly. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Who makes this range of sauces
There's a range of "traditional" English sauces marketed under the brand "Geo Watkins" (short for George) - the range includes Mushroom Sauce, Anchovy Sauce, Brown Sauce, etc. Here is a link to an example on Ocado.

Who produces these? I can find no information on the company behind them. Anyone? Bobby P Chambers (talk) 11:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * A quick search finds File:Mushroom ketchup.jpg (and later ) which says G. Costa & Co. Ltd. with an address which I guess from another quick search is who appear to have a part of a label which looks similar to the Geo Watkins sort of labels but doesn't provide any info or links for that specific brand. I don't know much about the brand, so it's possible different people have different rights, I would look more carefully at a bottle next time you see one (on all labels), it seems unlikely to me they won't have manufacturer info since I suspect it's required by law in the UK Nil Einne (talk) 11:44, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The link provided by Bobby shews the manufacturer as G Costa and Company Ltd, which is the compnay linked at www.gcosta.co.uk, and is part of Associated British Foods, also known as AB Foods. DuncanHill (talk) 12:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * See also under "2003" on this Associated British Foods webpage . DuncanHill (talk) 12:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, that was a bit dumb of me! Thank you very much! Bobby P Chambers (talk) 12:58, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * This site used to be very good for this kind of question. Unfortunately it now seems to be very out of date.--Shantavira|feed me 14:08, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

do indian ppl wipe themself with there hand?
hi pls my name is stan and i am new to the rferenc desk thx. okay my question is about i heard indian people wipe ther bottom with there hand even today in the modern era. i thought this was just a racist sterotype but my indian friend says this is true. is there an wikipedia article about indian bathroom hygein i would like to read about this because it is a bit hard for me to believe, thanks you.--69.114.214.58 (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Cecil Adams touched on this in part 3 of this 1986 column, though it isn't a statistical survey. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Having traveled in India, away from the tourist hotels with their Western toilets, I can explain how most Indians handle this aspect of personal hygiene. In an Indian squat toilet, there is a place to squat and a hole, lined with porcelain and leading to a sewer, or just a hole in the floor leading to a cesspit.  In the same room is at least a pail of water with a dipper and a bar of soap and usually a towel.  Where running water exists, there will be a sink.  You do not really wipe yourself. You rinse yourself off.  You are supposed to do it fairly thoroughly, using your left hand and pouring from the dipper (so as not to contaminate the pail of clean water by putting your hand into it).  Then you carefully soap and rinse your left hand, dry off, and you're finished.  Indians are VERY careful to use only their right hand for eating, shaking hands, offering cash as payment, and so on.  To use your left hand for any of these purposes is considered offensive, for obvious reasons.  In fact, the Indian use of soap and water is arguably more hygienic than our use of paper, which cannot provide the same kind of thorough cleaning. Some Indians view with disgust or distaste the Western habit of using only paper to wipe and then using the same hand for eating or shaking hands.  Marco polo (talk) 18:09, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've never been to India itself, but I have been to Indian quarters of other Asian countries, and my experience is that there is often a hole in the floor like you describe and then there is a tap with a short length of hose on it. You then use that hose, together with your left hand, to clean yourself and then clean your hand. --Tango (talk) 19:40, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * How could one wash the left hand with water and a bar of soap without transferring fecal bacteria to the right hand, and without transferring fecal bacteria to the next handler of the soap bar and the common towel? Soap is not self sterilizing. Great way to spread pathogens from person to person, such as Category:Intestinal infectious diseases. Wet wipes sound like a great alternative where a sink, running water, roller towels/paper towels/electric hand dryers are not available.  For those who can afford them, carrying a pocket pack with you sounds like a good idea. Edison (talk) 19:19, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Edison, I've fixed your link to the category. In future use category:whatever rather than . Without the leading colon you add the category to the page, with it, you link to the category. I noticed the error because I saw the misc ref desk was suddenly an infectious disease! --203.22.236.14 (talk) 10:37, 29 June 2010 (UTC) (psud when I remember to log in)
 * (Snort!) Thanks! Wikipedia has untold subtleties of formatting and coding.Edison (talk) 16:58, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm having a golden run on the RefDesks lately, what with questions on Engineering, the World Cup, South Africa and now Indian culture. It is true, probably less so in modern times. Typically you'd use water and the left hand. And yes, it sounds disgusting to me too. I've seen those bum-washer pipes (a parallel of the French bidet) not only in India but in the middle East as well at the airports and in hotels. In our home (I'm from Cape Town) we've got the best of both worlds, toilet paper and the washer although this isn't typical, most people would simply have a jug for water. (Note in Cape Town this is not an Indian thing per se but more a Muslim thing. I'd point you to istinja but it's been on Request Articles for more than a year). I can't understand how you'd feel clean without using water. We also had a squat toilet for my grandmother when we built the house although she never ended up using it, preferring the western style seated toilets instead. Zunaid 20:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * In response to Edison, I think one is supposed to make an effort to keep the right hand away from this whole process. Certainly, there is a chance (all right, a near certainty) of transmission of microbia between people in Indian public toilets.  However, the same is true in Western toilets, when you think about things like flush toilets (dispersion of aerosol droplets), flush handles, toilet paper dispensers, faucet (tap) knobs, soap dispensers, paper towel dispensers, blow dryers (aerial transmission), and door handles.  Marco polo (talk) 20:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * When I lived in university residence, there were a few south Asian Muslims, who kept a watering can in the bathroom for this sort of thing. (It did not occur to me that a watering can would be used for that, but there were also no flowers anywhere nearby, so I figured it out eventually, heh.) Adam Bishop (talk) 21:02, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

What you appear to be talking about is not an Indian thing, but rather a Muslim thing. See Islamic hygienical jurisprudence. Friday (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * This system may be common in the Muslim world, but it is definitely widespread across Hindu India as well. I recall a toilet with this system at a Hindu temple. I don't know in which culture this set of practices originated, but the extent to which Muslims have adopted Indian cultural practices (such as their system of numerals) is underappreciated.  Marco polo (talk) 22:53, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Maybe there is something I'm missing but.. can someone explain a bit more? I don't get the mechanics of how you would take a bucket of water with your right hand behind your back, and pour it to hit the right "spot" while washing with your left hand, using soap, etc. without making an ungodly mess! do you have to get naked to use the bathroom or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.218.50.226 (talk) 22:47, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * No. You use the dipper to take water from the pail.  You pour water from the dipper into your left hand and splash it into the areas that need cleaning and repeat as needed, following up with soap and another dipper full of water.  You don't use a ton of water or soap.  I was a little messy at it but managed to keep my clothes dry.  I think it gets easier with practice, like most things.  Marco polo (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok... that sound better 8') —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.218.50.226 (talk) 22:52, 28 June 2010 (UTC)


 * In addition this is probably easier with a squat toilet then a sitting one. Nil Einne (talk) 22:57, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

We await your inventions, till then, apna hath jagannath(my hand my lord) :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 12:19, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

See Anal cleansing and Health faucet. -- 58.147.53.253 (talk) 12:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Ice in Middle Ages
I have read that during reign of Akbar the mogul emperor they used ice in this and that beverages or recipes ! Of course they had no refrigeration, how the hell did they made it ? Jon Ascton   (talk)  22:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I can offer a general description though without knowing the specifics of the place and time you ask. Ice is "mined" from where and when it occurs naturally (cold zones and seasons) and is then kept insulated with such readily available substances as straw, possibly in underground chambers. -- Deborahjay (talk) 22:20, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * See Ice. --Anonymous, 22:35 UTC, June 28, 2010.
 * That was the standard procedure until refrigeration was invented. The original refrigerators were insulated boxes. You would buy ice from vendors and you would store it in the designated spot in the refrigerator. Hence the terms "ice man" and "ice box". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:46, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Some ice boxes even had openings to the outside of your house so the ice man could replace the ice without coming inside. They were clever designs. --Tango (talk) 22:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The chambers in questions are ice houses. (Linked to from the Anonymous' article, admittedly, but I can pretend to be adding something to the answer!) --Tango (talk) 22:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

After the Battle of Hattin, Saladin offered his noble christian captives, who had suffered appallingly from thirst in the lead-up to the catastrophic defeat, rose-water, iced with the snows of Mount Hermon. Well, most of his noble captives. He made one notable exception when the tea trolley came round. --Dweller (talk) 14:47, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * According to this the first mention of ice-making in Egypt was in the 15th century BC. A combination of cool nights and evaporation in shallow containers, apparently.   Zoonoses (talk) 23:44, 29 June 2010 (UTC)