Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 May 4

= May 4 =

poem possibly titled Sand
The Pennsylvania Railroad had a handbook which had a beautiful poem either in the front or badk. I read it in my fathers book. He died nin 1948. They read it at his funeral and I want it read at mine. I can not find the poem anywhere. It tells in verse, to always carry a load of sand for slipery times. Like they used when the train was climbing a steep grade. Then they threw sand on the tracks to give the wheels traction. I would love a copy. thanksBarbaraclaycomb (talk) 00:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest you make contact with the person running the Pennsylvania Railroad fansite, since he may recall the content of the many booklets he's scanned. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * How about:


 * The Locomotive (Author unknown)
 * (in memory of Russell Land – his favourite poem)


 * It appears the locomotive
 * Cannot always get a grip
 * On the slender iron pavement
 * ‘Cause the wheels are apt to slip


 * And when they reach a slippery spot
 * The tactic they command
 * To get a grip upon the rail
 * Is to sprinkle it with sand


 * That’s about the way with travel
 * Along life’s slippery track
 * If your load is rather heavy
 * And you’re always slipping back


 * So if a locomotive
 * You completely understand
 * You’ll provide yourself in starting with
 * A good supply of sand!


 * SteveBaker (talk) 01:31, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And the nature of your google-fu on this occasion was? --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Luck! On about my fifth try, I typed "slippery sand railroad" in to Google and nailed it! (Um - I guess I'm supposed to make it look arcane and difficult - right?) - it was on the site of some old people's home - where I guess it had been read at someone's funeral. SteveBaker (talk) 01:43, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm - now I have a decent chunk of the poem - I googled several entire lines of the poem - and found a bunch of sites that quote it. I found the poem at another place that says the title is "Sand" and adds a bunch of extra verses: Sadly, because it was a Google books search, I can't cut and paste it - so click: HERE to read it all. SteveBaker (talk) 01:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Or here if you;re a UKian frustrated by google's refusal to serve brits with the same content they serve to USians. Good find, Steve. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * And at THIS LINK it attributes the poem to "Mrs Fred Peterson (St Petersberg)"..this one is different yet again!


 * The problem here is not finding the poem - it's finding the true/original version of it! No two places I've found it at have had the exact same set of verses! SteveBaker (talk) 01:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Steve's cite was from 1900, with no author cited. The one which attributes it to "Mrs. Fred Peterson" is from a 1979 newspaper, and it is quite possible that she was just the contributor to the paper of an old anonymous poem, rather than the original pre-1900 author. This citation is from an 1899 book and attributes it to "E.P. Walling." Edison (talk) 15:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * An "E.P. Walling" was involved in prayer meetings in 1878 in New York City. Additionally a 1918 "Index to poetry and recitations" credits Walling with authorship of "Sand." A Mr. E.P. Walling of Brooklyn New York, who was an official of the American Sunday School Union, died April 13, 1900.Edison (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

stx38 John Deere
Where is the neutral starter switch located on a John Deere stx38 lawn tractorTommy261 (talk) 00:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This forum post says it's under the floorboards by where the brake pedal goes through...which kinda makes sense. SteveBaker (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Poetry
I've amassed a rather large collection of poems over the years, some good, some bad -- I recall there being ways for people to publish their prose and possibly make a buck or two off of it (I write for the sake of writing, but I certainly wouldn't mind financial help), but I've never figured out how (short of actually publishing a full book, which I've not the time, resources, or talent to do)... So: does anyone know of any viable publications where one can send poems? Magazines, books, newspapers -- anything? I've asked the almighty Google before, but 99% of what I found was obvious scam artistry, and the other percentage was shady, at best. I hadn't even considered the possibility until an English teacher of mine talked a few years back about some poems he had published once. --72.175.191.53 (talk) 02:19, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Poetry (magazine) used to be a fairly small, niche, publication until they received a huge financial endowment in the will of a very wealthy widow. See also Category:Poetry literary magazines.  -- Jayron  32  02:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you very much. I've submitted a few I believe to be worth reading, so we'll see how it goes. --72.175.191.53 (talk) 03:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There used to be (and maybe still is) a book called Writer's Market XXXX (meaning the year, e.g., 2010) and another called Poet's Market XXXX. They were published by a speciality publisher in or near Cincinnati, Ohio. 63.17.78.34 (talk) 02:35, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

gas/oil mix ratio club car golf cart
Hello. I recently acquired a 1988 Club Car golf cart and would like to know the proper gas to oil ratio for it. The former owner didn't even know. I know it has a Kawasaki 9 horsepower 2-cycle engine. I imagine it to be somewhere between 24:1 to 50:1. Thanks in advance--Mark12.179.40.184 (talk) 03:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

can you live off bonds?
I had a talk with an officemate regarding financial security at a late age. She said that bonds would be my best bet and/or stocks. The question is, can you live off bonds? I mean can you collect monthly interest off it, re-invest the capital in bonds, and live a modest life? If so, what kind of bonds would be the best to invest on? I won't ask how much you need to do a sustained bond earning since I don't know if the variables in the Philippine economy is that stable.---121.54.2.188 (talk) 05:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It is pretty easy to do the math. US Treasury 10 year bonds have recently yielded around 3.7%.  If you invest US$1 million in such bonds, you'll get paid US$37,000 per year by the US Treasury, and then you get the US$1 million back at the end of the 10 years.  I don't know anything at all about bonds in the Philippines, so you'll have to consult a local expert; but if you can look up the interest rates of the safest available bonds, then you can do the math yourself, similarly.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 05:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Bonds wise yes you can theoretically take an income. You can use things such as 'automatic partial withdrawls' to regularly pull money from the bond, but a key thing is understanding how much you'd need 'in' the bond (or how rapidly it would need to be growing) for you to be able to live off of it. In terms of which is a 'bet' then you need to seek financial advice. You will often be told to invest in more volatile investments when you are a long way from retirement (as time should smooth the peaks/troughs and result in good growth) but then to move to less volatile areas when you near retirement (as you should've built up a pot and then want to protect it more, rather than risk it). Individual cirumcstances affect this enormously so take it with a pinch of salt and see a financial adviser. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Not over the long term because bonds don't protect you against inflation. That's the main reason for including some stocks in your portfolio. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This sort of comment is one reason why it's a good idea to talk to a qualified, compentent, experienced financial advisor instead of the blokes from work &mdash; or random people on the internet. Have a quick look at Bond (finance) to get some idea of the breadth of the topic, and remember that 'bonds' include government issues (your mational government as well as – in many cases – regional and local levels) and corporate bonds.  Interest can be paid in many different ways on many different timelines; rates can be fixed or floating; bonds can be purchased at issue and held until maturity, but they can also be traded in an assortment of ways.  (To respond to Zain's comment above, a number of governments issue inflation linked bonds.)
 * Planning for one's retirement is a task that does require a certain amount of time, attention, and skill. You're unlikely to find useful information in a general forum such as this one, particularly if you're looking for Philippines-specific advice.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:22, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * To add to the complexity of this, financial advisors tend to offer advice based on how assets have performed in the past. Sometimes, they pay attention only to the recent past, such as the past 10 or 20 years.  At best, they might look at performance over the past 50-80 years.  Hardly any mainstream financial advisors consider the possibility that the future may not look like the past and that investments that have been secure in the past may not be secure in the future. With government bonds, there is a risk of sovereign bond default.  A number of observers have identified the possibility of a sovereign debt crisis leading to defaults across the developed world.  The recent situation in Greece, where default has been put off if not prevented, may be a harbinger of similar crises in other countries, including even possibly the United States.  See, for example, this report.  If such defaults do occur, then bonds would not be a safe retirement investment. But then, nothing is certain, and it may not be possible to identify a "safe" investment in today's world.  Marco polo (talk) 15:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The view quoted in the Financial Times is extremely ignorant, insane, stupid or dishonest. The risk of default from Japan, the UK or the US is zero, unlike from Greece, for the simple reason that Japan etc issue debt in their own currency, which they can print at will. The markets have of course recognized this recently, offering a premium to debt issued by nations who issue it in their own currency. Hereis an article making this simple point, and suggesting  reasons that people who know better make these transparently false statements.John Z (talk) 11:56, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, what is a "snake fence" ? and "run" ?
I'm reading now Arthur Fremantle 's "Diary" to sum it up in the french article I'm now completing, and 2 words are puzzling me. They are on " july 3rd, 1863" page, after the Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg.

Could you explain me :
 * what is a "snake-fence" . Fremantle writes : " Longstreet was seated at the top of a snake fence at the edge of the wood, and looking perfectly calm and imperturbed". Is it a snake-proof fence ? If so, are snakes so obnoxious in Gettysburg that they must be kept away by fences? Or is "snake" ment for evil people (like in "copperheads") who must be kept out, or is it a barricade built up by soldiers against ennemy's charges ? Or is it a fence winding away like a snake ?.
 * what is the "run" spirit Fremantle offered to Longstreet in his silver flask : "He (Longstreet) asked for something to drink: I gave him some run out of my silver flask, which I begged he would keep in remembrance of the occasion; he smiled, and, to my great satisfaction, accepted the memorial.". Is it "rum"?.

Thanks a lot beforehand I just hope I'll be able to find my way back to that rubrique... . T.y. Arapaima (talk) 07:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * According to the OED a snake fence is "a fence made of roughly split rails or poles laid in a zigzag fashion."--Shantavira|feed me 11:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Something like an abatis? By the way, Abatis is so scanty of information mentioning nothing about the Russian abatis fortification against Tartars. 117.204.83.25 (talk) 12:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * A quick google for "my silver flask, which I begged" shows in a couple of google book sources that it is rum.  meltBanana  13:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's a snake fence. Buddy431 (talk) 13:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, a snake fence isn't any sort of fortification. It's just a type of boundary or enclosure fence that can be constructed from rails without nails or other sorts of fasteners. The zigzag pattern keeps it from falling over. The one on which Longstreet sat was almot certainly a preexisting feature of the Gettysburg landscape. Deor (talk) 17:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It is also called a "rail fence", and gave its name to the Rail Fence Cipher. --Anonymous, 05:33 UTC, May 5, 2010.
 * Split-rail fence? Although the fence in the photo doesn't look quite like a split-rail fence to me. Pfly (talk) 08:36, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks awfully for your answers, ladies & gentlemen, either preciously pseudonymated or anonymous !

So the "snake fence" somewhat looks like a latin "plexus". In french w'd call it "une barrière en Z" (Z-shaped fence), or "une barrière en dents de scie" (saw-teeth fence) since it's not as flexuous as a wriggling-away snake ...

Thanks for the nice photo of that bleached piece of handywork, I'd like to use it in french WP, how'd it be possible ?...

Abattis : sorry, no , an "abattis" is made of felled trees ("abattre un arbre" is "to fell a tree") , purposedly laid down with the extremities of their limbs pointing towards the ennemy. Try to penetrate such a falled tree if you find one, you'll see it must be very difficult for foot soldiers, and that horses can't leap over it. Besides horses are very reluctant to force their way through it, since their sensitive belly & nostrils 'll be harmed by the broken sprigs & limbs. If I remember well "de Bello Gallico" (it's so far back now !!!..), Caesar wrote that the Gauls used a lot of "abattis", & that he used them himself because their were very simple, at hand, & effective... T.M.A.L.S.S. : A mug of ("run") grog for all hands ! I hope to see tracks of your visits on [[Arthur Fremantle, frenchWP. BTW , why do your nice iconos I select in Commons so often come out as a maegre red title on my french editings ???.

& if you are interested in my other question ("Polish Soviet War : is the soldier on the left of the photo a woman?"), I think I posted it on "Help, Humanities".

T.y. & thanks again Arapaima (talk) 08:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

GCSE exams in England this winter
Anyone know which GCSE subjects I could do as a private candidate in November 2010, and if it's more difficult to arrange than in the summer? Looks like I'm too late for the summer exam sittings. I have found the private candidate pages on the exam board websites, but I'm a bit confused by the jargon and different types of exam. How many exam papers are there, for example, if I don't do coursework? I'm English myself but went to school abroad and never took GCSEs. Didn't think I needed them, until last week a Manpower consultant told me many employers automatically throw away job applications from people without 5 GCSE passes, regardless of their other qualifications! So I'd like to do at least English, Maths and some kind of Science (there are various science options which I didn't figure out yet) as soon as... thanks! 81.153.237.194 (talk) 12:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're in the UK (and it sounds like you are) I'd say don't take this "consultant"'s word for it. If you're under 19, find your local Connexions service. There's this website which should cater for adults, and they have a contact us facility so I suggest you use this to confirm (or otherwise) the advice you've been given. --TammyMoet (talk) 14:22, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Tammy, I will definitely check out your site. I'm still interested in doing the exams though, unless they are really expensive or hard to arrange. Do you know how many exam papers there are in a normal GCSE? Seems to be too simple a question for the exam boards' sites to answer... 8-) 81.155.57.153 (talk) 16:18, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that depends on the subject. I don't think there are any that only have one paper: most of them I think have two: and others will have theory and practical papers. Over the past few years, there has been a move towards assessed coursework as part of the final assessment. If this is the case, you basically wouldn't be able to pass a GCSE on exams alone. However, there are many colleges who do GCSEs by open or distance learning over a year. You may even be able to find summer schools offering tuition this summer. (Please note I'm not a teacher at the moment so my info may be a few years out of date.) As to when the November dates are, this site should be able to help you. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:16, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I would recommend you try Education Otherwise, a charity that supports and campaigns on behalf of families who choose home education for their children. Many such children take GCSEs as private candidates rather than through a registered exam centre, and EO publishes various guidance and useful contacts to help them.  These might be able to answer your questions on cost, syllabus and subject options.  Their website is here. I don't know what their rules are about membership, but you could always offer a donation in return for good advice.   Ka renjc 11:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've applied to join the Education Otherwise forum. If they come back and say they can only afford to answer questions if I pay for membership, probably I'll do that. From Tammy's second link I found that AQA offer Maths, English Language, Chemistry, Biology, Physics and Combined Science in November... and also in January. If I do all those except Combined Science, I have enough time from now to brush up my knowledge. Then I'll have my 5 good passes and should never have to worry about GCSEs again :-) As for finding an exam centre, Pascals College in south London will take private candidates at £150 per subject, no questions asked. They also do IGCSE, which are exam-only so I wouldn't have to find anyone to mark my coursework. It's a bit expensive, but I'd like to get this sorted out so I might go for it. 81.132.218.0 (talk) 16:13, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thinking I might pay for this by working as an exam invigilator (for other exams of course) with a temp agency. I could take a month's unpaid leave from my current job, but still earn money while doing my exams. I'd have to wait til the January sitting, when A-Level exams take place as well as GCSE, but the shifts are flexible and (especially in London) the agencies seem quite short of people. I've seen lots of job ads for invigilators to cover this summer, and they don't ask for any particular qualifications. 81.132.218.0 (talk) 16:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Dormitory accommodation
What's the protocol when sharing dormitory-type accommodation. Is it acceptable to undress entirely when going to bed? I'm assuming dormitory accommodation (eg hostels) is normally single-sex only, but are there mixed examples? --rossb (talk) 12:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * (This answer is from my experience in US female dormitories; other countries may be different). If you're talking about undressing to put on pajamas, it's acceptable to undress to your underpants, though it's good manners to turn away from other inhabitants.  Underpants are generally changed when dressing after a shower, where there is more privacy.  If you're talking about sleeping naked... this would be very problematic in any college dorm or hostel I've ever stayed in.  While you're sleeping, you should be wearing at minimum (for women) a shirt and shorts or pajama pants, and (for men) shorts or pajama pants. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * My experience with dormitory-type accommodation (specifically youth hostels in Europe) is now about 25 years old, but at that time, I never experienced a mixed-sex dormitory, only male dormitories. In male dormitories, some people were more modest than others, but it was acceptable to be completely naked both to change and to sleep (inside the sleep sack).  If you slept naked, though, you'd dress as soon as you woke up.  People certainly did not parade around naked.  Even when walking between the bedroom and the shower, a person would cover up at least with a towel.  I'd say that most men did not sleep naked, but probably most were briefly naked while changing, facing away from the rest of the room.  In general, most males would try to show modesty, but not to the point of avoiding nakedness when it would be cumbersome to do so.  If I were planning a trip now, more than 20 years later, I'd plan to pack a pair of shorts to wear in bed and/or to and from the shower just in case modesty is more extreme now than it was then.  If it turns out you don't need them for that purpose, you can always use them for swimming or something. Marco polo (talk) 15:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I've stayed at quite a few hostels in Europe, and only some of the official IYHF places had same-sex dorms. All the private city centre hostels were mixed. Anyway, I haven't noticed anyone sleeping nude. People changed in the shower room and slept in at least a tshirt and underpants. 81.155.57.153 (talk) 16:25, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That rather depends on the type of hostel and the country it's in. In my (extensive) experience, Youth Hostels are stricter in their rules, especially in the US. I don't know if they have any rules about this, but the sort of people who attend them might be more likely to mind nudity (again, especially in the US). Then again, they're often single-sex, so that should solve that. Not sure though, since I spent as few nights in them as possible. Except for the ones in rural areas, which are often in beautiful locations and vary hugely in style, depending on the manager. I prefer to sleep in so-called Backpackers' Hostels (which are really just hostels, but the name is meant to more clearly distinguish them from Youth Hostels). There, mixed-sex dorms are quite common, and of course that limits the acceptability of nudity much more. In single-sex Backpackers' dorms I think few people would mind nudity just to change your clothes, although prancing around might raise some eyebrows. However, I've never seen that happen and any nudity is normally brief and not an issue. I can't remember ever seeing anyone sleep in the nude, but then again since I wouldn't mind, I wouldn't take note, so I may have just forgotten. I don't think anyone would mind.
 * Btw, there's a third kind of dorm, which I like to frequent (especially in New Zealand): back-country hiking huts. There, nudity is much less of a problem (despite being mixed-sex) because the situation is more 'primitive' (closer to nature anyway :) ). But since they're often cold, it is also not likely to last very long. :) DirkvdM (talk) 18:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * All very interesting. Back in my day, there were few hostels other than the IYHF hostels.  I remember a handful in Athens and Amsterdam.  Even those did not have mixed-sex dorms back then.  I don't think women would have felt comfortable with them.  It makes sense that people would cover up more in a mixed-sex dorm.  Marco polo (talk) 20:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

laptop
hi....... I have a retail shop,I want to bye a laptop for maintaining stock in my show room and billing in my shop. any laptop can perform 12 hours in a day .please suggest me can I used laptop for such a long hours or I used pc.Supriyochowdhury (talk) 12:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Unless your retail shop doesn't have mains power, both a laptop and a pc can be plugged into the mains electricity and run pretty much forever (not including power-cuts.) If you are in an area where there isn't mains power, or there are likely to be lots of power-cuts, a laptop will continue running for maybe 6 or so hours on it's battery, whereas a pc will be unusable during the power outage. 82.43.89.71 (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Regular contributor 82.43.89.71 did you mean to type "on its battery" ? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:52, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * If you expect to be without mains power for extended periods of time, you can also purchase more than one battery for your laptop. (Though for most machines you will need to be able to plug the laptop into mains power – or shut it down briefly – whenever you switch batteries.)  Battery life varies from laptop to laptop.  Generally larger displays with brighter backlights will shorten battery life.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * An uninterruptible power supply is also an option, if you are concerned about intermittent power. -- 174.21.225.115 (talk) 15:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I interpreted Supriyochowdhury's question as asking whether it's OK to leave a laptop on a lot, not about uninterruptible power. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * As her countryman I can assure you that what Comet Turtle interpreted is the meaning of her question. Can she work her laptop for 12 hours continuously? She knows that she can do that with a desktop. So, she asks if it is OK with the laptop to be on for that long or should she look for a desktop.--117.204.86.44 (talk) 19:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand now. For just maintaining stock, using spreadsheets, microsoft word etc a laptop will be absolutely fine to do that all day (if plugged into the mains electricity of course..). If she wanted to do more resource hungry stuff like gaming or processing videos all day I would suggest a desktop, but even then a modern laptop would be fine too. So to sum up; a laptop is more than capable of doing what she wants and for long periods of time. 82.43.89.71 (talk) 20:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

'Popsicle'
Hi. I'm looking for the name of the wooden popsicle-like thing doctors use to push down the bottom of the mouth when they are examining it. Cuban Cigar (talk) 12:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Tongue depressor. Dismas |(talk) 13:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * ...or as some comedian called it "an ahh stick".--Artjo (talk) 22:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly what it is. Thanks =)114.77.47.75 (talk) 01:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Soccer Record
Hi... Just curious and can't find any meaningful answer on google... My football team (called it soccer in the title for any US editors reading this) Swansea City A.F.C. have just finished the 46 game season having scored just 40 goals... It's this season's lowest scoring team, but I was just wondering what the record is for lowest scoring team... I know there are many leagues, so I'm talking just the main English Leagues (Premiership, Championship, Leagues 1 & 2)... Just wondering if there are any other teams over a 46 (roughly) game season that have scored less goals? Just to try and ease the annoyance...

Thanks! Gazhiley (talk) 13:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The article Football records in England provides the answer: 18 by Loughborough in the Second Division, 1899–1900, in a season of 34 games is the fewest goals ever scored in an English League season. No doubt there are more scores in between 18 and 40 over the intervening century! FiggyBee (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sweet... That over a 46 game season works out as just over 25 goals, so I feel a bit better now... Thanks! Gazhiley (talk) 14:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Swansea's achievement this season is actually rather impressive, I think - when you consider that the 18-goal Loughborough that was mentioned there lost the league in extreme style, winning only one game and conceding 100 goals. Swansea, on the other hand, came 7th and very nearly made the playoffs thanks to conceding very few goals too. If the Championship was ranked on goals scored, they'd have been 24th, but if it was on goals conceded, they'd be 2nd. ~ mazca  talk 15:52, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * True, and I am proud of that... But the reason we were 7th not 6th is the inability to put the inflated pig's bladder into the over-sized onion bag on a few more occasions... Gazhiley (talk) 21:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If awarded losses count too, you may want to see the current Turkish championship season. --Магьосник (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Derby County managed a mere 20 goals from 38 games in the 2007-2008 Premier League.--Frumpo (talk) 17:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I know the question is specifically about English football, but Tasmania Berlin famously ended the 1965/66 Bundesliga season with a mere 15 goals from 34 matches. Tasmania only played at the top level because someone thought for political reasons Berlin must be represented and Hertha Berlin had just been relegated. That's what you get when politics interferes with football.213.160.108.26 (talk) 23:52, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * We have an article on Tasmania 1900 Berlin. Why a German football club would want to name itself after part of Australia is beyond me... FiggyBee (talk) 00:03, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's explained on the talk page. They even had a Tasmanian devil, of all things, as their early logo.  (Mind you, Tasmania wasn't a part of Australia as such in 1900, except in a geographic sense; that occurred at federation in 1901.  In 1900, it was still a British colony.) --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

size of foals
What is the average size of a Quarter Horse colt and Shetland pony filly at birth? It's for a school project and I cannot find the info anywhere online or in my books! Thanks! PrincessofLlyr royal court 15:28, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This site (http://www.shetlandponies4sale.com/id31.html) says that they range in size from 12" to 20" at birth. No idea if that's average or based on any facts but it's a start. (I got to this by searching for shetland pony foal. ny156uk (talk) 12:13 pm, Today (UTC−5)
 * Thanks so much! That helped. PrincessofLlyr  royal court 17:22, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Gloria Allred
I'm confused. Isn't what Allred did to tiger and David Boreanaz called EXTORTION? How is it that she gets these sleazy clients and then demands money or the dirt gets publicized and doesn't get prosecuted? Is the D.A. her best buddy, or what? the guy who did it to david letterman went to jail. a example of what im talking about is here

http://www.tmz.com/2010/05/04/gloria-allred-attack-david-boreanaz-extortion/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom12350 (talk • contribs) 15:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sf5xeplus (talk • contribs)
 * Is your question why Allred has not been prosecuted? If this became public knowledge yesterday, it may simply be too soon- if she broke the law, she may be prosecuted once the lawyers involved have a little more time to look at the evidence and decide the best course of action.  -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

she did the same with tiger woods and his girls. it was common knowledge and the law never cared. example

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001577-504083.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom12350 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It is an interesting question. Demanding cash for silence is blackmail, but in a case where the victim and the blackmailer both got what they want, neither is going to talk to the police and present evidence of the blackmail.  Without anyone to press charges, the prosecutor probably lacks evidence to charge the blackmailer with a crime.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:45, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

yes but why would a lawyer agree to help blackmail if they know its illegal. why would they risk it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom12350 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * $$$ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Googlemeister (talk • contribs) 19:23, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Often &mdash; not necessarily in these cases, but often &mdash; it's because the lawyer is comfortable in a particular gray area of the law. Most tort lawsuits end in a settlement where one person ("A") pays another ("B") in order to stop a lawsuit.  In cases where A did something harmful to B, and the allegation itself would damage A's credibility publicly, A really, really wants to settle the case before the allegations are made public.  This is a gray area and it sounds a lot like blackmail, and it could be in some places, depending on the exact definition of blackmail.  In general, if B says to A, "Pay me $5 million or I will tell everyone what you did to me," that's different than B saying to A, "I am going to sue you for $5 million for the harm you did to me" and then negotiating a settlement with a confidentiality agreement attached.  That said, I don't know anything about the specific two cases you linked to, and don't know what harm might have befallen each "B" in those cases.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

how is that different from the guy who did it to david letterman and went to jail. example

http://www.tmz.com/2010/05/04/david-letterman-extortionist-robert-halderman-sentenced-jail/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom12350 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * According to our Joe Halderman article, Halderman told Letterman that he would expose Letterman's affair if Letterman didn't pay Halderman $2 million. This is simple blackmail, which is different from Halderman telling Letterman that Letterman had caused damage to Halderman in some way, and that Halderman was intending to sue Letterman for damages, and that he (Halderman) wanted $2 million to settle the lawsuit.  It's pretty close, isn't it.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

IP Blocks
I enjoy trivia about anti-vandalism, so what's the longest time that an IP has ever been blocked from Wikipedia?  2D Backfire Master  pretzels rule 20:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't open proxies get banned forever? I've just noticed a vandal has been on my house connection today... living in hope that one incident is not enough for a ban :-o 81.155.57.153 (talk) 21:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * To 81.155: See WP:WHY. You can stop such problems forever.  Your call.  To 2D Backfire Master, see Category:Indefinitely blocked IP addresses.  -- Jayron  32  21:27, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note that an indefinite ban is not a permanent ban or 'banned forever'. An open proxy for example would be blocked as long as it's an open proxy. But if the person in control of the IP removes the open proxy, the block would almost definitely be lifted if they make a request. If the problem is persistent vandalism, if the person says they will no longer vandalise or they're sure no one behind the IP will vandalise or whatever, the blocked is likely to be lifted albeit with a low tolerance for any futher misbehaviour. In terms of the longest time, I guess you'd have to find a way to find the oldest IP which remains blocked. However I don't know if it means much. As I've already mentioned, they could be unblocked at any time, it may just be no one asked. Further, I suspect several cases they shouldn't have been indefinitely blocked anyway, Blocking IP addresses strongly discourages it even for open proxies (see the section above the one I linked to as well). For example I just removed an indef block tag from a user page of a no longer blocked IP User:24.205.30.158, from what I can tell no one requested it be unblocked (it hasn't contributed since it was blocked), simply somene noticed it and decided it shouldn't have been indefinitely blocked. Or another example, User:78.129.201.189 blocked for one year then 5 years as a TOR exit node. Nil Einne (talk) 00:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)