Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 November 24

= November 24 =

Motorbike flip
In Quantum of Solace, Bond whacks the guy on the motorbike in the left hand/arm area and the bike sort of flips in the air and the rider is knocked off (Bond then attacks the guy again and takes his bike). How did this happen...is the bike on automatic "go" and knocking the guy's hand off the handle brake made the bike jerk suddenly enough to surprise the rider? I don't see how Bond whacked the bike to make it flip -- seems like it's way too heavy for that!  DRosenbach  ( Talk 01:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know how to tell you this, but the James Bond series is not known for its rigid adherence to realism. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * But you don't see Bond teleporting or apparating or using or doing anything that's inherently impossible. So yeah, he doesn't get hit by even one bullet from an automatic rifle even after losing his side door, but to smack a motorbike on the handle and have it flip over -- I think of those two things as different.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 02:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * He was driving an invisible car in one of Pierce Brosnan entries. Shades of Wonder Woman. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:39, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I would wager that 90% of all physical stunts in the Bond movies are nonsensically fictional. They're silly stunts made to look cool; they're not real. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mythbusters did an episode exploring a similar stunt based on a scene in one of the Indiana Jones movies where Indy places a stick in the spokes and the bike flips over. Mythbusters pretty much busted that one.  -- Jayron  32  01:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Specifically, see MythBusters (2008 season). --Anonymous, 11:06 UTC, November 24, 2010.
 * I think the Italian team did that same thing to one of the protagonists in Breaking Away. Although that was a bicycle. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As I recall, Dave in Breaking Away (a really good movie BTW) didn't flip over; he just crashed. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:19, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Doesn't Bond just knock the rider's hand off of the clutch? Blakk and ekka 17:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Military conquer of land
I searched for this wordage in Google, but found only stuff related to Biblical Joshua -- So, if Canada committed an act of war against the US in the area of northern NYS, and the US responded to such an act of war with a troop-mediated rebuff that resulted in the US securing all of, let's say, Niagara Falls and greater Toronto, what's the international law in regard to this land? Does the US give it back necessarily? Where can I find information about this type of conquest, or any kind of conquest, for that matter? With this premise, I'm assuming that Israel was similarly confronted by acts of war (such as blocking of the Straits of Tiran), and trying to make up a similar situation to help me understand.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 02:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This is called, unsurprisingly, the right of conquest, and was LONG an implicit part of international law. One aspect of Sovereignty is the ability to secure a land an a people, presumably if an invading force captures a plot of land, then the plot of land was not secured by the prior claimants, so they have lost claims to soverignty over it.  This is an evolving aspect of international law, however, as the "right to conquest" article notes, in the past 100 years or so international law has progressively come out against wars of conquest and aggression, tending to deny the right of the aggressor to take territory by force.  The last notable attempt at taking a widely-recognized sovereign nation by force was the 1990 Invasion of Kuwait, which led to a rather broad coalition to reverse that invasion, the 1990-1991 Gulf War.  The "right of conquest" article goes over the specific changes to international law which have made the right of conquest a pretty much universally rejected right to claims of sovereignty.  See also Territorial integrity, which is a principle of international law which pretty much denies the right of conquest.  -- Jayron  32  03:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This was actually the gist of Defence Scheme No. 1, amazingly enough. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright -- thanx!  DRosenbach  ( Talk 04:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * For more about practical examples of the US at war with Canada (or the British, actually) and associated respective invasions see War of 1812. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:36, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Filling up with gas
How does the gas machine measure the gas dispensed, from the tip of the nozzle or some other location in the tube? If it's from some other location in the tube (or prior to the tube), how does the gas machine charge the first first first customer properly if there's no gas in the tube yet? Of course, I may be getting multiple things wrong but it all just occurred to me last night.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 04:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't answer your question directly, but I do have a relevant sidenote - in the "olden days" gas pumps had glass reservoirs atop each pump, with clearly delineate volumes, so you would read the starting mark, fill your tank, then subtract the finishing mark to get the volume you had removed. It wasn't as accurate as digital, but you paid for what you got, in a sense. The Masked Booby (talk) 08:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

The OP may wish to rethink his assumption that the customer is getting exactly the right amount of fuel. I've often raised the middle part of the fuel hose higher than the nozzle in order to get the remaining fuel in the hose into my tank, even if it is worth only a few cents. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That rips off the next guy. Unless everyone does it. Because by that principle, when you put the nozzle in, you're going to gain whatever the previous guy's filling left in the hose, countering the loss at the end of filling which you're describing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And we're all speculating that the machine counting mechanism is prior to the hose, so doing so won't even trigger the machine to notice any extra gasoline being dispensed -- but what if you're filling one of the regulation red plastic containers sitting on the floor, and there's no drip cord effect...the next guy doesn't get the tube remnant there, either?  DRosenbach  ( Talk 22:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How often does that happen? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact, I don't see how DOR's method would do anything. The shutoff is on the nozzle, so you're still going to leave some gas in the hose, no matter what angle you hold it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Car idling in cold
How long should I let my car run for before I can start driving when it's -20 to -30C (about -5 to -20F) so I don't hurt the engine, and at what point am I just wasting gas? It's a 1999 Neon if that matters. If it hasn't been plugged in it usually whines for about a minute or so, then returns to normal engine noises, and I figure that's about when I can start going.

Also, my little sister says she needs to let her truck run for 20 minutes even when it's been plugged in and I think that is a load of rubbish. Who's right? Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 05:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Click and Clack recommend about 2 minutes of warm-up for fuel-injected cars when the temperature is under 10F. Link  Haus Talk 06:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * We had a similar question to this one (probably last winter) and the conclusion was that it doesn't take much time at all. Dismas |(talk) 06:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * From my own experience I'd agree that 2 minutes sounds about right - it's probably best to avoid really thrashing the engine until it's warmed up well and the oil is fully up to temperature, but I imagine that if it's -20C you're unlikely to be driving particularly aggressively! ~ mazca  talk 11:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Even two minutes is probably more than necessary (note that the Car Talk link provided actually quotes the hosts as saying "a minute or two", not "about two minutes"). Any modern (last two decades or so) fuel-injected vehicle will automatically begin a fast idle after being started in cold weather; the idea being that this rapidly warms the engine and oil to a safe operating temperature.  After the car warms sufficiently (ten or fifteen seconds usually, and even in cold weather likely less than a minute), it will drop back to a regular idle – if you listen for it, you'll hear the change – and you're definitely good to go.  If you start the engine, then put on your seat belt, check your mirrors, and adjust the radio before you drive off gently, you're fine.  If someone wants to troll the Ref Desk archives for the previous iterations of this question they'll find the sources for this info.


 * A lot of people will let the engine run for a while on a cold morning just to let the interior of the car warm up before they set off (these people will usually get out of the vehicle after starting it, go inside to have another cup of coffee, and then return 10 minutes later). They will then pretend they need to create a cloud of exhaust fumes in their driveway for mechanical reasons, not because they value their own comfort more than the health of the planet... --207.236.147.118 (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh. Must be obsessed by trolls. What we need is someone to trawl through the archives.  :)  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   14:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Trolling (fishing). . TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Why? 86.166.40.102 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I remember being told that you should be extra careful with cars with a turbo-charger, waiting a couple of minutes before driving off because if you spin the turbo when the oil is cold it could cease. That was when turbos first came in, so it may be out of date. -- Q Chris (talk) 16:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * According to the German motoring organization ADAC this is a myth and it's idling your engine in cold weather that may damage your engine. (in german I'm afraid). Winter temperature in Germany can be -10C to -20C. 86.135.217.213 (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The engine should be fine by the time you get through a song on the radio. The real wait is for the windshield to defrost.  If you don't wait long enough, it will fog right back up as soon as you hit the streets.  If it's dark out, you'll be driving blind.129.128.216.107 (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The engine should be fine by the time you get through a song on the radio. The real wait is for the windshield to defrost.  If you don't wait long enough, it will fog right back up as soon as you hit the streets.  If it's dark out, you'll be driving blind.129.128.216.107 (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Christmas E-Card Donation to wikipedia
I want to make a Charitable donation to Wikipedia by purchasing a christmas internet E-card. Please advise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.58.209 (talk) 09:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the official donation page of the Wikimedia Foundation (the organization that operates Wikipedia), they accept donations by credit card and PayPal. I've never heard of e-cards being used to deliver donations, though you could donate and then send them an e-card if you want.  I would suggest not paying for an e-card, since they are usually free.  And thanks for supporting Wikipedia! Paul (Stansifer) 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they mean an electronic equivalent of charity Christmas cards, where they would buy an e-card that would say somewhere, in small letters, "supporting Wikipedia" or "a small donation has been made to Wikipedia" or "profits from the sale of these e-cards go to Wikipedia" or similar. This would allow them to send the e-cards to friends and family, for money, and so support Wikipedia, as the money would go to it, while raising awareness of the need to raise funds for Wikipedia. However, it was also require serious mission creep so that Wikipedia could set up an e-card system, or trusting some third party to pay their profits to Wikipedia. You'd be safer sending a free e-card, and writing "a small donation has been made to Wikipedia, to keep the servers running" at the bottom. Then donate to Wikipedia. 86.164.76.95 (talk) 11:39, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

how can I get information about my ex-husband's judgment or court case with the IRS in Florida which he lost?
how can I get information about my ex-husband's judgment or court case with the IRS in Florida which he lost? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeannie7777 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Try pacer.gov, perhaps you find it there. Quest09 (talk) 18:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Buying a laptop in the US from Europe
If you buy a laptop in the US from Europe (more precisely Austria), what are the technical problems that you can face? I know the plug is different (but adapters exist), it will be obviously have a US keyboard, OS and manual. But what else can be different - specially, what else can make it a bad idea? Quest09 (talk) 18:40, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Import tax issues? -- 78.43.71.155 (talk) 20:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems likely that you'd be charged a substantial import tariff. Also, the warranty may only be valid in the US. It's theoretically possible that the power brick wouldn't work on the ~230V European mains, but unlikely, since laptops are designed for travel. I can't think of anything other than that. -- BenRG (talk) 22:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Are import taxes technical issues? Nevermind, in the mean time I thought that the DVD player might be locked to US DVD films. Is that possible?Quest09 (talk) 23:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The software for playing DVDs will probably be locked to the US region, but it's easy to replace that, either with European-region software or region-free software. It's also possible that the DVD drive itself is region-locked, but that's far less common (and there's usually a way to change it). --Carnildo (talk) 01:05, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Quest09, you asked about technical issues but you also asked "what else can make it a bad idea?", so I decided to err on the safe side. Hardware and software DVD region numbers can normally be changed five times before they lock; I think this may be required by the DVD consortium. Things like WiFi and TV in/out are normally switchable between different national standards. I'm not sure about cell/mobile wireless. I have personally brought a US laptop to the UK and a UK laptop to the US without any technical problems that I can remember, other than keyboard and DVD region differences. I bought them locally and took them as carry-on luggage (and had used them for quite a while in the country of purchase), so I didn't run into the tax issue. -- BenRG (talk) 02:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * One other thing: you probably won't need a plug adapter, because the cord from the power brick to the wall is usually a standard part the local version of which can be purchased at any electronics store. -- BenRG (talk) 02:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Another thing that makes it a bad idea (even if the vendor is a very good friend of yours) is the hassle you would have to go through if it arrives damaged or if it stops working a few weeks after you bought it.--Shantavira|feed me 09:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I concur with BenRG and not Carnildo on the region thing. Most software and drives (and sometimes OSes) allow a few changes usually 5 although sometimes 3. If you're unlucky, your software and drive may be set to region 1 by default which may mean you'll lose one region change but it's unlikely you'll be stuck on region 1. Software limitations of course can usually be modified, hardware ones can be too if your drive is firmware updatable although obviously riskier and less guaranteed (as there are many different drive models each usually with their own firmware) although this may potentially violate the DMCA in the US and other countries with similar legislation (although regional codings are questionable themselves in some places). Of course you can also get software which doesn't rely on the drive or OS at all although again such software may violate local legislation.
 * I'm not so sure about the TV thing. I believe TV output should be fine, however if your laptop has some sort of tuner these are often only support one form. DVB-T and ATSC are fairly different anyway as I understand them. However I don't know how likely it is that the laptop will come with ATSC, I don't believe broadcast TV is so popular in the US I suspect it's much more likely a laptop in Europe will come with a DVB-T tuner then one in the US with ATSC. In terms of the mobile TV formats, these still seem to be in major flux so I don't think it's that likely your laptop will have any.
 * If your laptop does come with some form of wireless 3G card, it will obviously depend on what standard is supported. If it's W-CDMA (including HSDPA) you may have a chance although most of Europe uses 900/2100 whereas 850/2100 is common in the US so if it isn't at least triband 850/900/2100 you're likely to have limited coverage depending on your network and there are also a bunch of other odd W-CDMA bands in use. If it's CDMA2000 your probably SOL in much of Europe. Of course you're also SOL if your mobile wireless device is simlocked and not unlockable.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 10:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The warranty may be completely invalid. Amazon in the US will not sell certain items to Canada because of warranty concerns. Enter CBW, waits for audience applause, not a sausage. 13:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As a reasonably regular visitor to the USA, I seriously considered buying a laptop on my next trip. After a bit of research I found all but one issue easily surmountable.  By far the biggest problem for me was the severely limited warranty options.  Essentially, the laptop is only covered for warranty repair in the country of purchase (ie. I couldn't buy in the USA and get warranty service in Europe).  The risk was too high for me, so I bought locally.  Astronaut (talk) 10:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Chicago-Detroit
is there a rivalry between Chicago and Detroit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It depends if you mean sports, and in which sport. The Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings have a traditional natural rivalry in Hockey dating back to the Original Six days.  During the 1960s, there was a fierce personal rivalry between Detroit's Gordie Howe and Chicago's Bobby Hull.  In other sports, Detroit teams and Chicago teams tend to play in the same division, so there have been other historical rivalries in this vein.  During the late 1980's, there was a Chicago Bulls/Detroit Pistons rivalry, the two teams played in several memorable playoff series.  Dating back to the old, pre-merger NFL days the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears had a traditional rivalry, and they both play as part of the NFL's NFC North division today, known historically as the "Black and Blue" division or the "NFC Norris" after the NHL's Norris Division, see above for THAT rivalry.  Detroit's 50 years of football mediocrity has pretty much ended that rivalry.  In baseball, the only teams that have a natural rivalry would be the Chicago White Sox and Detroit Tigers, but those teams do not have as much of a traditional rivalry as in the other sports. -- Jayron  32  20:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Chicago-Cleveland
Is there a rivalry between Chicago and Cleveland? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, assuming sports, there was once a Chicago Bears/Cleveland Browns rivalry, but since the AFL-NFL Merger, when the Browns moved to the AFC, that ended any sort of rivalry there. The Chicago White Sox and Cleveland Indians are often both near the top of the highly competitive AL Central division in Baseball, so they have a rivalry of sorts.  During the early 1990's, there was a bit of a one-sided rivalry between the Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavaliers; Cleveland was the recipient of some legendary losses to the Bulls in the early rounds of the playoffs.  Cleveland only briefly had a hockey team (the Cleveland Barons) which lasted only 2 seasons.  -- Jayron  32  20:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There is little city rivalry between Cleveland and Chicago or between Cleveland and Detroit. Traditionally, Cleveland's rival city was Cincinnati as the other large city in Ohio (Columbus becoming a major city only in recent decades). If asked to name Cleveland's rival city, many Clevelanders nowadays would say Pittsburgh because of the Browns-Steelers football rivalry. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Detroit-Cleveland
Is there a rivalry between Detroit and Cleveland? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:59, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, assuming sports, the Detroit Tigers and Cleveland Indians play in the same baseball division. As far as I know, there is not any traditional rivalries in either basketball or football or hockey.  -- Jayron  32  20:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * See above. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Atlanta-New York
Is there a rivalry between Atlanta and New York City? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 20:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * In baseball, the New York Mets and Atlanta Braves are in the same division, the NL East. During the 1980's, the Dominique Wilkins-led Atlanta Hawks and the Patrick Ewing-led New York Knicks had a rivalry, but this has cooled in the past decades.  In football, there is no rivalry between the Atlanta Falcons and either of the New York teams, the New York Giants or New York Jets, since they have never played in the same division, and historically the Falcons weren't often a great team, so they would have rarely met the Giants or Jets in the post-season.  In hockey, there have been two Atlanta Hockey teams, the Atlanta Flames (now in Calgary), and the Atlanta Thrashers, neither of these had/have existed long enough to establish serious rivalries, and neither played in the same division as the New York Rangers, which is NYC's only major hockey team.  (The New York Islanders don't have a fan base in the city; they attract most of their fans from suburban Long Island).  -- Jayron  32  20:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Growing up in the NYC suburbs (admittedly more than 30 years ago), I was not aware of a rivalry between New York and Atlanta. For many New Yorkers, there is not much question of rivalry with any other American city.  In their eyes, New York is clearly superior.  There might be a rivalry with a city such as Paris or Tokyo or possibly nowadays Shanghai, but other American cities tend to be dismissed.  The only possible domestic rival (mainly for people who care about the entertainment business) would be Los Angeles.  That said, my adopted home, Boston, likes to see itself as the rival of New York.  In baseball, the Yankees are the traditional archenemies of the Red Sox.  However, I think most New Yorkers find Boston and its feelings of rivalry quaintly amusing.  Marco polo (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is why non-New Yorkers sometimes call the city "The Big Horseapple". :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This one's well discussed. See and 40,000 New Yorkers Flee State for Atlanta for some context. I've seen other articles about it too, but I can't find them right now. Shadowjams (talk) 10:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Los Angeles-San Francisco is the classic West Coast rivalry. Politics, culture, life-style, weather, and most of all sports are all part of the game. As a die-hard Dodger fan, there are two things very high on my list of great baseball games: when the Dodgers win, and when the Giants lose. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

pretentious philosoraptor
Hi Do you know the origin of this picture ? http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1152/dinomyster.jpg

cartoon ? illustration ?

thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.151.76.194 (talk) 21:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It looks like a screen capture of an animated video. I'm at work and cannot do much WP-stuff, but tineye is often a great friend in cases like this. You could try looking up the picture there. Matt Deres (talk) 21:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * in fact it's a meme. So tineye find other version of this picture, not the origin :/ 92.151.76.194 (talk) 21:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * knowyourmeme.com has researched articles on stuff like this. There's an article on philosoraptor, though it's not exactly the same image. -- BenRG (talk) 22:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * a friend found the answer : the origin is "the critic" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.151.76.194 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * To be clear, there's a "smart velociraptor" in this clip from "The Critic", but the actual philosoraptor image comes from this site. --Sean 16:49, 29 November 2010 (UTC)