Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 October 25

= October 25 =

Deli meat (turkey breast) vs. ground turkey breast (packaged)
How is it that the former costs $7-10 a pound, while the latter, with no added salt as an option, can cost just over $2 a pound and seems to come sliced as well. 67.243.7.240 (talk) 02:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The price (usually) depends on the quality of the meat that goes into the product. Who knows what goes into the ground meat?      D b f i r s   07:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ground meat often contain a bit of filler too to make it mechanically stable, and it can use other, cheaper cuts of meat to produce. --antilivedT 07:50, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It may contain mechanically separated meat.--Shantavira|feed me 08:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Also the deli meat has been seasoned (probably marinated) and then cooked for hours; the ground meat is just flung into a grinder and ground up. Looie496 (talk) 22:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

How to open a bar/club in Australia?
How do you open or manage a bar or club in Australia? What are the steps, money, qualifications, licenses you need etc? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 10:04, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * A basic thing to know is that Australia is a federation of states, and alcohol/liquor licensing laws are a matter for each individual state. So, which state ? HiLo48 (talk) 10:08, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Victoria. --124.254.77.148 (talk) 10:18, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * OK. I certainly don't claim any particular expertise, but being familiar with names of local bodies, I can point you at this...
 * http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/Home/Alcohol/
 * Let's know how you go. I could be your first customer! HiLo48 (talk) 10:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest going to a local bookstore. When my wife started her own business, there were guides available which detailed what agencies she needed to file with and what forms needed to be filed.  I would suspect that an author in Australia would have created something similar.  Dismas |(talk) 10:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * A very useful site: Business Victoria. Will give you the answers to pretty much everything you've asked, or tell you where to look. --jjron (talk) 13:03, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ancient square holes
Drilling a square hole in a metal plate becomes an expensive operation if the corner radii are to be small. I don't think they can be reduced to zero. If the Antikythera mechanism is correctly dated, square holes were made about 150-100 BCE but how? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * You need only drill one, or perhaps four, holes, and then square it off with a file. Anyone hoping to hand-make anything clockwork would have to be very skilled with a file. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 10:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Depending on the character and thickness of the metal, you could also achieve a square hole with a punch, although (particularly for precision work) drill-and-file is more likely. In a modern workshop you could use a punch press, but that requires pressures that classical Greek workers couldn't really have developed. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 10:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed,  I  can do these things but only because a tool shop sells me drills, files and punches made of tool steel which was hard to come by in ancient Greece.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know a lot about steel, tool steel or otherwise. But it seems that Wootz steel, Crucible steel, and other apparently high quality steels (for ancient times) were available in Greece around the time of the Antikythera mechanism. Certainly there was a high volume of trade between the Greek and Indian worlds at the time. Would this level of quality suffice? Pfly (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll bet they drilled a round hole and used a file to square it off. They would have used a file for the teeth of the gears anyway. Very painstaking work. APL (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps they used a mortiser. There are drills that drill square holes. 92.28.254.63 (talk) 12:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

buehler turboccraft litature
I viewed file no. buehler64009,jpg. I could not read the specifications shown as they were too blurry. Can I somehow get a larger or clearer picture, or have you email me the specs??? Thanks [email removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.101.88.60 (talk) 16:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't find that file in either wikipedia or wikicommons. Can you give us the exact file name you were looking at?  Rojomoke (talk) 18:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If the information is about a product of Bühler Motor in Germany, that corporation has a website at www.buehlermotor.com that includes contacts for information. Here are pictures of buehler turbocraftand a full description of one model. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

NCAA Football, LSU vs Georgia 2010
LSU at the end of the game scored. LSU (2010) lines up for a two point try after a touchdown. They try, but miss; but then the officals count the defenders and fine 13 defensive players on the field. They called it illegal substitution and award another try to LSU with ball now on the 1-1/2 yard line. LSU makes the two points and wins.

Do the rules require the referees to stop the play before the first try, or should they drop the flag and let the play go on, and then assess the penalty, ( if the offense wants it ), after the play, like they do with off-sides. ? ?

R. D. O'Connor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 17:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Looking online, it seems there is a bit of confusion over whether illegal substitution is a dead ball foul or a live ball foul. In that particular instance, however, the referees did not know that Georgia had 13 mean on the field until they reviewed the play, so in theory, it should have been illegal participation which is a 15 yard penalty.  But, since it was on a 2 point conversion, it would be accessed as half the distance to the goal.  Basically, it depends on when the refs see that there are more than 11 people on the field.  If there is just one person running off the field and they didn't quite make it, the ref throws the flag, but lets the play go before they enforce the penalty, making it a live ball foul. Tex (talk) 17:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * LSU and Georgia don't play in the 2010 regular season (see here for LSU's schedule and here for Georgia's). Are you thinking about LSU vs Tennessee 2010 (recap here)? In that game there was a controversial last second illegal participation call that gave LSU a final chance to score the go-ahead touchdown. I don't think that in general coaches like to make any last-second intentional penalties just to get a look at the defensive scheme. Those kinds of things will tend to backfire more often than not. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 23:12, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a tricky question. From my understanding, in the NCAA, if there are 12 men in the huddle, the refs are supposed to immediately blow the whistle and assess a 5-yard penalty for illegal substitution. However, if a team manages to start a play with 12 or more men on the field without the refs throwing a flag ahead of time, it is illegal participation, which is a 15-yard live-ball foul. Because the extra Tennessee players ran on the field right before the play started, the refs did not blow it dead ahead of time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, sorry, it was Tennessee. I must have just said Georgia because the OP did.  Tex (talk) 19:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Becoming an engineer in the UK
What are the differences between M.Eng and B.Eng? I know that M.Eng is a year longer and enough to become a chartered engineer without further education, but that omits everything about how things work in practice. My country's system isn't similar so I have no idea. --62.142.167.134 (talk) 18:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

One is graduate level (i.e. standard university degree level) and one is post-graduate (i.e. generally requires a degree to be able to take the course). The Master of engineering is 'higher' (scholarly speaking). As for what difference one of the other makes in practice i'm not sure - but a quick search of the jobs market for engineering should let you see how 'standard' a requirement one or the other (if either) is. ny156uk (talk) 20:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the MEng is a master's degree but not a postgraduate qualification (a complexity of the UK system). My advice is to aim for the MEng, because if you want to be an engineer, you want to be a chartered one. Even if you enrol first for the BEng you will probably want to take the further year for MEng. For more advice, ask the universities - they will be very happy to advise an international student. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

NCAA Football, LSU vs Giorgia 2010
Part II

Thank you Tex (talk) 17:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC) for your answer on the two point try. So if I am the coach for the defense on the extra point, then you set up to go for two, I would be smart to take 5 off and put in 6.
 * If I get caught before the play starts I loose 1 1/2 yards but I got a sneak peak at your formation. Right ?
 * If I do not get caught and the offense makes it anyhow; then so what ?
 * If I do not get caught and we stop the 2 points; we win. !
 * If the offense fails and then I get caught, well they get 1 1/2 yards and a second play. But we have had an almost free look and may have seen your secret play !

From now on I think I will play the 2 point conversion with twelve men ! See OU  vs  MU game 10-23-10 to see how GOOD it works for the defense. ! Solution : Drop the flag (like off-sides) let them play. then the penalty if needed. Even if the refrees saw the extra players on the field in the LSU game; I think the no-call, let-them-play is the best punishment for the Defense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 22:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I've fixed your formatting above. I don't think your plan will work. Firstly, if you have 12 in the huddle, the refs are supposed to throw a flag within a few seconds of you breaking the huddle. If the refs allow the play to go on, you're essentially giving the offense two chances to convert -- the second from the 1.5-yard line. A better idea would be to call a timeout after the other team lines up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Also you shouldn't assume that the play you got a look at is the one that will be run. From three yards out, most teams will pass; from one-and-a-half, the quarterback sneak is a viable option.  Knowing that the QB sneak is coming is not a lot of help in stopping it, either. --Trovatore (talk) 07:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Malfunctioning smoke alarm
I've got a problem: the smoke alarm in my corridor is malfunctioning. It's old (it came with the house) and doesn't go cheep-cheep-cheep like the new white ones, but emits a loud, low BLAAARE at intervals, and it is the worst sound you could hear in the middle of the night, scaring the sh*t out of you. Pressing reset just makes it madder, and even though I had been up since 5 the previous day I immediately didn't feel like sleeping anymore that night. When I tried to remove it in the morning I found a nasty surprise: it was connected directly to the house's power supply, and obviously I don't want to cut the wire. My question is: why would it be malfunctioning? It is connected to the house power supply so it's not saying there's no battery. This was about 2 in the morning so no one had been showering or cooking for a few hours. Also, how can I disconnect it or disable it or remove it? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 23:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Mine is connected to the mains and has a battery; the battery is there so the detector works during a power cut (and runs flat even though there isn't one). Open it and replace the battery - it's probably either a couple of AAs or a single 9V PP3. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 00:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Smoke detectors do not last forever. Airborne contaminants build up in the ionization chamber making it more likely to go off accidentally. Supposedly the electronic componants can also become less reliable.  (Contrary to popular belief nuclear decay is not a major factor in smoke detector aging. AM has a half-life of centuries. )
 * You're supposed to replace them every 10 years. I'm afraid I don't know how to disconnect it from the mains, though. You might consider asking at a hardware store (When you buy the replacement!).  APL (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * What Finlay says: Replace the back-up battery. Make sure all the mains connectors are secure before replacing the unit, otherwise the battery will continue to drain. Mine has a faint but steady green light on the underside to indicate it's working properly. If that doesn't work replace the whole unit.--Shantavira|feed me 08:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's older than ten years (and it sounds like it is) you should replace it regardless of whether or not you can figure out a way to shut it up. The light just indicates that the thing is active, it doesn't necessarily indicate that it will successfully detect a fire. APL (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Ditto all the above. FWIW, I've had better luck with mine since I started giving them regular passes with the vacuum cleaner. Matt Deres (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't have a backup battery: I opened it up and checked :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 23:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

In the UK ,the fire brigade will usually help with them as they like them to be working correctly.Hotclaws (talk) 23:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)