Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 April 23

= April 23 =

Finding a specific song
I would like to find a copy of an old song which I remember being sung when I was only a child. The name of the song is "Standing By The River." Is there any way that you can help me to find this song? Thank you very much, and may God richly bless your organization. Calvin Smith. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.40.207 (talk) 03:35, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Could you be more specific about where you heard this song? What country, first off.  Also, did you hear this at a concert, in church, where?  And what is "old".  We don't know how old you are to know when you were a child.  A Google search for "lyrics standing by the river" yields at least two different songs with that title and that's just on the first page of the results.  One version was apparently sung by The Stanley Brothers who were active from 1946 - 1966.  That would meet my definition of "old".  Dismas |(talk) 04:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * When I looked at youtube, this item featuring the Speer Family gospel singers was the first thing that came up. Probably from the early 1950s, and preserved thanks to the magic of kinescope. Old-fashioned, and well-done. Speaking of "old", keep in mind that Disco is now considered nostalgia. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:59, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sadly, Grunge is considered "classic rock" now. Disco is drifting into "oldies" territory, which means that the OP's song is approaching whatever category "Cavemen banging on rocks" fits in... Damn, when did I get so old. -- Jayron  32  05:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just today, technically. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:18, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I wondered about grunge/classic rock the other day when I heard Nirvana on a classic rock station. The station is out of London though, so I just chalked it up to an American/British difference to keep from feeling old.  :-)  Dismas |(talk) 05:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No, you're old. Welcome to the club.  Grunge is about 20 years old now.  For comparison, when Grunge was new, Led Zeppelin was music from 20 years prior.  When I was listening to Grunge, Led Zeppelin was squarely in the "Classic rock" bucket.  -- Jayron  32  05:44, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And in the 60s, the "nostalgic" music was Big Band. When we get to the point where Rap is considered "nostalgia", we might want to get our pulse checked. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:00, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Check your pulse. Music with a 30+ year history has been "classic" for a long time.  -- Jayron  32  06:10, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Old school", yes. Did you know that the rap recording called "The Super Bowl Shuffle" had its 25th anniversary this past season? But when I find rap in the same section with Lawrence Welk, then I'll know it's time to check out. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:19, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * See Also: Fight For Your Right Revisited. 67.162.90.113 (talk) 22:25, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Long boots
Can someone explain what these boots are for or why the guys are standing with one foot in between the boots of the man next to him? What's going on here, basically. Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 04:22, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Have you seen the other potatoes on that site? Quite an odd collection of spuds. I can't help but think the potato might be a fake. Real or fake, it's kinda strange. It's like if elves wore potatoes, or something. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:06, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they look fake. It looks like someone got bored and was screwing around with Photoshop.  -- Jayron  32  05:09, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like it could be for real, though I'm still not ruling out "fake". I googled [boots with long toes], and this item came up, which alleges to be the story behind this picture and includes other photos as well. I googled the reference [patatas vaqueras exóticas] ("exotic cowboy") and there are many photos of pointy-toed boots, though the only ones with the outrageous points in google images are from that site I mentioned. It appears that the ones that look like curvy skis were created just to take this fashion fad to an extreme or to satirize it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I did look at the other images on that site. That's what makes me think that the pics are real and not photoshopped.  The other pics don't seem to be manipulated.  Dismas |(talk) 05:42, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * An extreme version of botas vaqueras exótica, a Mexican style that has gone global. Check out the Finnish group Leningrad Cowboys. There is a surreal video on that page where they are performing "Sweet Home Alabama" (with the Red Army Chorus) where they are wearing similar footwear. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:59, 23 April 2011 (UTC),
 * Is it my imagination or have the Leningrad Cowboys' boots (and quiffs) got longer in the last 15 years? Astronaut (talk) 07:24, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow. If they are real it should be possible to lean forward pretty much horizontal on those.190.149.154.38 (talk) 15:13, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Apropos of which, see Little Tich and his "Big Boots Dance." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.111 (talk) 16:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Here he is in action ;-) Alansplodge (talk) 17:35, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Insightful essays about Wikipedia
I'm looking to gain insight into Wikipedia, its internal dynamics and future, hopefully through reading the best analyses that have been written. I am hoping you can link me to some you have come across.

I'm primarily interested in quality rather than focus, but I'm not looking for humour, how-tos (however excellent), advice columns (e.g.1, 2, 3), or widely-cited proto-policies like WP:DENY. Manifestos that are somewhat broad are welcome though.

Some essays I have found useful in this vein include:
 * User:Moreschi/The Plague
 * User:TenOfAllTrades/Policy reform treadmill
 * User:Thatcher/Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
 * User:Scott MacDonald/When to shoot an admiral
 * WP:BARBARIAN

What I'm looking for need not necessarily be in-house. That said, I'm less interested in news sources, as they seem to cover the same tired ground over and over (accuracy, BLP, vandalism, crowdsourcing etc.); I'd rather the perspective of the editor/theorist than the reader/journalist. Here are some good insights I've found elsewhere: User:Skomorokh/Farsight.

Anyone got favourites they would be willing to share? Thanks in advance,  Skomorokh   16:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)


 * A lot of the discussion about 'Wikipedia', e.g., strategic planning and future directions, actually takes place as part of the broader Wikimedia movement. You may be interested in looking at the wikimediastrategy document which includes official research, strategies, proposals, etc. --jjron (talk) 17:09, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

"Come left/right XXX degrees"
In movies, the captain of a (war)ship often give instructions of the form "come left/right XXX degrees." Exactly what does that mean? Does it mean to steer the ship to a new course of absolute bearing XXX degrees? Or does it mean to steer the ship left/right XXX degrees relative to the previous course? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.2.210.7 (talk) 17:07, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * In navigation the terms are usually Bearing (navigation) and Heading. Bearings are relative to an external standard, almost usually magnetic north; whereas heading is relative to the direction of travel.  So the captain may say "Take out bearing to 90 degrees" might mean "Make the ship go due east".  "Take the heading 90 degrees port" would mean to turn the ship 1/4 of a circle to the port (left side).  Various navies will tend to have different standards as to exactly how to notate these movements, but the general principles apply; there's usually two different ways to declare ship movements: relative to an external standard, or relative to the ships own direction of travel.  -- Jayron  32  17:37, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Come left 30 degrees" would seem to be a command to adjust the rudder so the course is 30 degrees counterclockwise from the previous course, not 30 degrees relative to 0 degrees as magnetic north or true north. This would be a sensible command if an obstacle were dead ahead and one was also 60 degrees to the left of dead ahead, or if the target point (harbor entrance, say) was 30 degrees left of the present course. If the order was "Come left to 30 degrees" then that would be an order to follow that compass direction ., .Edison (talk) 01:00, 25 April 2011 (UTC)