Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 December 17

= December 17 =

Restaurant seating
On business trips I try to avoid eating in the hotel and instead head out into the city to find a restaurant. I quite often find myself going to a restaurant alone and asking for a table for one. And on many occasions I am led past empty tables to the back of the restaurant and shown a table next to the toilets. This doesn't happen if I dine with friends or colleagues, or choose a particularly expensive restaurant. I appreciate that if the restaurant is very busy, then someone will have to sit in a less than perfect place, but it seems that some restaurants are at a loss quite what to do with the single diner even at quieter times. Is there a feeling in the restaurant business that single diners are not worthy of a better table? Astronaut (talk) 03:51, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Because you are alone; it's been a problem ever since the first lone diner went to a restaurant. As a single, you occupy a table that could be for two (at least) who would order double, and the tip would be double. Singles are not in a sociable mood (generally) and thus drink less and spend less.  They are occupying space a restaurant would see as underutilized.  So, you are a shown to a table that no one else would want anyway.  High-end restaurants generally behave better because they would like you to return with 25 of your dearest friends, something you won't do if you feel you have been treated shabbily. It is also likely that a high-end restaurant doesn't have such obviously unattractive tables in the first place.  (Note that I am not trying to argue that any of this behaviour is acceptable, just that it is.) Bielle (talk) 04:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * (ec)I find this rather hard to imagine, I've always tended to operate under the assumption that a person dining alone is more likely to be a reviewer/critic (as have most of the staff I've worked with), particularly if they're obviously from out of town, you can never be sure. If I was to hazard a guess I would say that its because a person dining alone is likely to spend less than two people or more, so better to save the nicer tables for groups. If the place is not too busy most places will probably be happy to reseat you if you ask-- Jac 16888 Talk 04:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On occasions I have asked to be seated elsewhere. Usually this is not a problem, but I have also been told that all the other tables are reserved, only for very few other diners to arrive.  Astronaut (talk) 05:48, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I seem to remember reading about the supposed psychology behind this once, but have no idea now who by or what expertise they really had, but it did seem reasonably logical. IIRC it went something like this: if people are walking by trying to decide whether to go into a restaurant, they will be affected by social factors. If it looks like the place has a lot of people in there, and they look like they are having a good time, they'll be more inclined to go in to eat themselves, or mark it down as somewhere they want to go in future. If, however, they look in and see a few lonely losers eating away solo, it won't strike them as somewhere particularly appealing or exciting that they would want to go to. Thus sit the good-time groups somewhere near the front to make it look busy and exciting and draw in the passing traffic, and sit the loners down the back where they won't really be noticed. And BTW why sit them down the back? Well if you do succeed in bringing in more groups you also want to be able to sit them nearer the front to maintain the facade, so you don't want those tables being clogged up by loners.
 * Perhaps think about it in terms of a bar. If you're looking for somewhere to have a drink, are you more likely to want to go to the bar with a bit of a crowd who seems to be having a good time, or would you go for the bar with a few lonely barflies propping the place up? Most people would go for the place with the crowd.
 * Oh, and FWIW, the high-end places wouldn't worry so much about this, because the customers will be wanting to come to them anyway, and on any given night they are probably turning people away regardless; they don't need to rely on the passing traffic. Additionally, any singles that choose to dine in an expensive restaurant are quite likely very well off, and the sort of customer that the restaurant really wants to keep on side, i.e., this isn't just a one-off special occasion visit as it may be for many of the other customers, they are likely to be regular return customers, and often this may be with more people than just themselves. --jjron (talk) 06:57, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe that's what I'm getting at here: Why does single diner = lonely loser, rather then single diner = a paying customer with the quite reasonable expectation of the same dining experience as other customers?  Astronaut (talk) 14:15, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, Jjron actually just explained that. Your "expectations" aren't visible out the window. If he's right about their motivations, then it makes sense to keep the groups near the front and near the windows, and the boring singles off to the sides. (A single individual reading a newspaper is only likely to attract other single individuals looking for a quiet place to read a newspaper, but a group is likely to attract other groups.) APL (talk) 01:18, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I thought I had covered that. It's not to do so much with how the restaurant views you as the loner, it's simply a question of how can they maximise their business on any given occasion - and the way to do that is to display the groups prominently to draw in more customers, and tuck the loners away relatively out of sight. However, if what you're asking is "why are we (as a whole) attracted to groups or crowds", i.e., why would we be more likely to enter a restaurant with groups in prominent places than loners, then that's really a different matter, and would go into the whole social relationship stuff, and why we seek out social groups in the first place. --jjron (talk) 13:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe they suppose a solo diner want a discreet quiet table at the back of the restaurant and not seat in the middle of it, surrounded by groups. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.213.105 (talk) 02:28, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * There are probably philosophies that emanate from the top. I doubt if all owners and restaurant managers give the same instructions to staff concerning who to seat where and when. They would likely have varying strategies. Bus stop (talk) 02:42, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Renowned doctors
When a well known doctor who specializes in something or other travels to operate on a specific patient, do they bring a team of nurses and such with them that they know and work well with or is it just the doctor? Or do they rely on local hospital staff? Or is it a mixture of both? Dismas |(talk) 14:28, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd say it would depend on which country you're talking about. I've never heard of this happening in Australia, for example.  (Just to let you know that "renown" is a noun, meaning repute, reputation or fame.  It's quite common to see it used as you have, but in proper writing it'd be "renown ed doctors" (cf. "famed doctors").  I also see people writing "reknown" and "reknowned", which is a good try but they're trying too hard because the k has no place there.  The "-nown" part of the word is pronounced exactly like "noun", and has nothing to do with "known" or "know".)  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  17:48, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the education! I've fixed it.  Dismas |(talk) 21:21, 17 December 2011 (UTC)  See [] for more on the origin of the word.
 * I did not find the answer in the article “Médecins Sans Frontières”.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 18:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

1st Evanglitical United Brethen Church
In 1997 my mother Ethel S Wilson died in Melbourne Florida. we buried her next to my father in the Glen Haven Cemetery in Winter park Florida (Augest 1997 )

At graveside we used the woman pastor from the 1st Evanglitical Church in Winter Park Florida. That church had a cornerstone dedicated to my father for his service to the church. I can not locate that church, which was faily new then, in Winter Park. I have written the Winter Park Chamber of Commerce and other contactsbut received no replies. I have exhausted (mapquest) etc. as to who to contact next. I would like that church's location or what happened to it.

Thank You Joe Wilson — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.16.116.217 (talk) 16:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * According to this site the First Evangelical United Brethren Church in Orange County, Florida, Inc. (possibly the same place, because Winter Park is in Orange County) is an inactive company, with a mailing address at Donald J Nunamaker Cor, St Andrews Blvd & Lomond Dr, Winter Park, FLA 32789. Perhaps give that a try?
 * FWIW, this site lists the Places of Worship in Winter Park. Maybe one of them has taken over the building you are looking for? Failing that, or if you don't know, I'd say pick out one or two that appear to be similar belief systems and who sound relatively friendly, contact them, and ask them what has happened to this church you are looking for. Chances are that being in the same business, someone would know what's become of it. Good luck with your search. --jjron (talk) 16:17, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

From our article: "The Evangelical United Brethren Church in turn merged with the Methodist Church in 1968 to form The United Methodist Church." There seem to be four of those churches in the above list. Rmhermen (talk) 16:52, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

guns
I want to know if there was ever made a 20 gauge double barrel side by side slug gun for dear hunting?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.133.52 (talk) 22:54, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure. Why not? This page has twenty gauge side-by-sides. But some people considered 20-gauge to small for deer. Rmhermen (talk) 01:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * A brief Google search gave me the 20 Gauge Stoeger side by side double barrel, which apparently is used for deer hunting.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  00:52, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure they've been made, but really one should hunt deer, not one's dears. --203.22.236.14 (talk) 11:04, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

LOL! @(talk) -HyperStudent (talk) 01:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

sports question
hello i have a question about americans football. i have heard that most or all of the players in the NFL who are wide receiver or safety or cornerback are african american men but i would like to know if there are any white men in NFL who play this positions. not samoans or other races, but actual white men. i heard whites were too slow and not athletic to play these types of positions (sorry if that sounds racism). thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.90.14 (talk) 23:17, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

also if there are white ppl who play this positions, i would like to know if any of them are consider "elite" or "no. 1 tier". thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.90.14 (talk) 23:18, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * A quick check of the roster of San Diego Chargers shows a white wide receiver Bryan Walters and white defensive backs Steve Gregory and Eric Weddle - three out of 17 players in these positions. (Almost all others are African American. One guy is half Samoan / half black, and one looks like he could be half Mexican / half black.)--Itinerant1 (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * As for wide receivers, Wes Welker is arguably the best this season. Among the greatest of all time, Lance Alworth and the more recent Steve Largent qualify (the latter was, as I recall, classified as a "slow white guy", but he ran his routes precisely and had great hands). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of white wide receivers as noted above, however, as far as I know the last white guy to play cornerback was Jason Sehorn. You only need to be fast to play WR, and there are plenty of fast white guys, but you have to be insanely fast to play CB in the NFL, and there are few people without West African ancestry among the world's 0.01% fastest people. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yet all the quarterbacks in the Template:Pro Football Hall of Fame Quarterbacks list are white, except for Warren Moon. Astronaut (talk) 09:00, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Julian Edelman has been pressed into service by the Patriots recently as an emergency cornerback and nickelback (too many injuries), so he qualifies as both a white wide receiver and white defensive back. There are more white wideouts and white defensive backs than white tailbacks, and most are more fullback in playing style (bruisers rather than speedsters).  Peyton Hillis (6'1, 253) of the Browns, for example, whose built in the Mike Alstott/John Riggins mold.  There is Danny Woodhead (5'7, 195) of the Patriots as a white, small, speedy back, but I couldn't name another small white running back who played significant downs in the past 20 years.  White wideouts are much more common, besides the aforementioned Welker and Edelman on the Patriots, there's Brian Hartline for the Dolphins, Jordan Shipley on the Bengals, Kevin Walter on the Texans, and I'm tired of looking.  -- Jayron  32  19:51, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The Jets have two starting white safeties in Eric Smith (American football) and Jim Leonhard (Smith is terrible though). Jordy Nelson is a white receiver for the Packers, and a pretty good one too. Hot Stop talk-contribs 19:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Maple syrup use in Europe/Australia other places?
Do those of you who are in Europe, Australia and other places know of and use maple syrup? Is it available (real maple syrup that is) in the  (pick one). The question just popped into my head while I was eating french toast with some of Vermont's finest and I was thinking about how ridiculously delicious it was when it occurred to me that sugar maples are indigenous to the Americas, like peanuts, which I have heard (at least as to peanut butter) is not in high use in Europe like it is in the U.S. (curious also: have you ever had PB&J?) Maple syrup is one of those things that I can't imagine the average person anywhere not liking; it's not really an acquired taste kind of thing like marmite/vegemite, which most Americans do not like when they taste. It's more like clotted cream for Americans, which every American I've ever offered it to who had never even heard of it almost fainted from how damn good it is.--108.46.103.88 (talk) 23:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure it's not an acquired taste. When I first tried it, as a kid, I thought it tasted very odd.  (I'd been used to the stuff you get in diners, which IIUC is basically corn syrup with a tiny bit of flavoring added.)  Now I like it and want nothing to do with the fake version, but it did require that getting-used-to step. --Trovatore (talk) 02:28, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maple syrup is available in mainstream British supermarkets (ref); I would categorise it as an expensive luxury or delicacy used by a small number of people, maybe on a par with manuka honey, but not in the "ethnic food" category (e.g. canned ackee for those homesick for Jamaican cuisine, or salads in brine for more recent Polish immigrants). BrainyBabe (talk) 00:19, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * American here: What is manuka honey? From our article it sounds like something you would find in an alternative health/vitamin store "for external use only". If maple syrup is that common in Europe, I guess no one knows about it. Rmhermen (talk) 00:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you not notice the link? --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  02:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I said I read the article. And got even more confused. Rmhermen (talk) 04:21, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can confirm it's not for applying externally but for eating, which would be the normal expectation of honey unless otherwise specified. The article does refer to its flavour, but only in the very last word of the lede, which is otherwise about its antibacterial properties, and this may have thrown you.  Maybe others are also confused; the article can do with some editing.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  01:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * In the UK, most people usually shop in large supermarkets which stock a very wide range of foods, and maple syrup would certainly be seen there. Per BrainyBabe, it's not particularly expensive - maybe more than standard honey, but nothing like the price of manuka honey which is outrageously expensive.  You probably would not find maple syrup in small neighbourhood or village shops.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I am from the UK, but lived in Japan for much of my life, and Japan was first where I heard of it. You can get it in some convenience stores, but I mostly saw it in the bigger supermarkets. The Japanese Wikipedia article on maple syrup in fact says it is also produced in Japan (and mentions Saitama as a prime producer, and specifically the city of Chichibu, whose symbol is the Kaede, which is Japanese for 'maple'.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  02:32, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely easy to come by in Australia (I can only assume it's real maple syrup) in that it's available in your typical supermarket for example, but I wouldn't say it's overly popular. Not sure if this link will work, but that gives an indication - I do note that there's a fair bit of 'maple flavoured syrup' listed there, but a few 'pure' maple syrups at around AU$10 for a 250ml bottle. It's also prominently on the menu at places like the Pancake Parlour chain. I personally quite like it, but having said which, I don't find anything particularly amazing about it. Must say though that I haven't tried it, or even considered trying it, on anything but pancakes, and I'm not really a huge pancake fan either. Peanut butter is also very common here, just a standard spread, more popular than say Vegemite, but I've never met anyone who has PB&J - most everyone seems to find that quite odd, and we have known about it for a long time as it was a staple on the old Brady Bunch show which was a very popular TV show here even in the 70s. And BTW, Vegemite, yuck, never could stand it, though I am happy to claim ownership of Tim Tams, which I know is quite a different concept, but I think everybody loves. --jjron (talk) 02:40, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with the maple syrup part, Jjron (but I love Vegemite). You can certainly get it here, but it's not the big thing it is in novomundane places.  Story time: About 25 years I had some association with a Canadian woman who'd moved to Australia to be with her Aussie husband.  She said she found a certain brand of Australian-made maple syrup in a supermarket here, and was thinking it was gonna be no great shakes, not like her favourite Canadian brands, which she couldn't get here.  But she reported it turned out to be the best maple syrup she had ever tasted in her life.  I couldn't possibly remember the brand name now.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  02:59, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The stuff that is on the tables at the Pancake Parlour is "maple flavoured syrup". You have to pay extra to get a tiny jug of the real stuff.  Oh, the stories I could tell about that place...  --Shirt58 (talk) 03:45, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a lot of "Maple-Flavored Syrups" or "Pancake Syrups" on the market here in USA. I think they're mostly corn syrup and water. Maple trees usually aren't involved at all.
 * They're a lot cheaper than the real thing, and I'm convinced that a lot of people don't look closely enough to realize it's not the real thing!
 * (I wonder if JackOfOz's Canadian friend might have grown up on that not realizing.) APL (talk) 07:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maple syrup is available in France, at least at Carrefour. It's imported from Canada, so it's pretty expensive. I have a bottle in my fridge that says "pure maple syrup" (in English and French, very Canadian), but it doesn't list any other ingredients. I have found that French people are aware of maple syrup but they think the concept is strange. I told them how it's made, and that in Canada sometimes we just poke a hole in a tree and eat the sap with our fingers, and they thought I was making it all up. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:29, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha. I grew up in Massachusetts, one autumn a truck injured our maple tree and in the winter the most delicious icicles formed on the injured tree limb. APL (talk) 09:25, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, well it's quite possible that I've never had true maple syrup at all, if it's correct that places like the Pancake Parlour only serve up maple flavoured syrup as their standard fare. I've never actually bought a bottle of the stuff myself; never felt the need, but that may mean I've only had the cheap substitutes. May need to give the real thing a try, and see what I've been missing. --jjron (talk) 13:58, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The easiest way I've found to tell real maple syrup from fake is how thick it is: real maple syrup pours about as easily as water, while the fakes tend to be very thick. --Carnildo (talk) 02:59, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * A voice from Poland: maple syrup is available in the better-stocked food supermarkets. It's not a cheap product product (a mid-sized bottle/container can cost around what you'd give for mid-range wine), and it is rather a niche delicacy (it's definitely not a part of our cuisine and requires a taste for it). --Ouro (blah blah) 12:46, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I live near two TESCO stores in Yorkshire. The big one stocks it, the little one doesn't. The big one also stocks 'Maple Flavour' syrup, which is half the price, but I imagine is an abomination in the sight of the Lord to Canadians. My hubby puts the real stuff in his porridge, Nigella Lawson apparently pours it over her Christmas Turkey ref.Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:52, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * French toast is called "eggy bread" in London and is generally eaten with HP Sauce or something similar. We Brits are a bit cautious about mixing savoury and sweet foods, especially at breakfast time. Peanut butter was introduced to the UK in WWII as a butter substitute, so there is still a belief held by older people here that buttering your bread before adding the peanut variety is a faux pas. I have tried peanut butter and jam; not impressed. Alansplodge (talk) 13:09, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I love crunchy peanut butter (no butter first) with thick cut marmalade. My friends are unimpressed, to the point of nausea.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That is about many Americans reaction to marmalade itself. We are talking about jelly with peanut butter (only sometimes jam, that's usually for toast). Concord grape jelly (made from pure juice, no fruit matter) is the canonical mate to peanut butter here. Peanut butter and butter - how would you spread the PB after the bread was all slippery with butter; never heard of it - must be a faux pas. But how could you possibly taste the cinnamon and egg on your "bread" if you dosed it in steak sauce. Or is that akin to those Americans who insist on putting ketchup on everything, including scrambled eggs? Rmhermen (talk) 14:12, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * So first of all, you need to know, if you don't already, that our British friends use the word jam to refer to both our "jam" and our "jelly", and use "jelly" instead to mean anything gelled &mdash; aspic, Jell-O, that sort of thing.
 * It's true that the stereotypical PB&J is Concord grape jelly on Jif or Skippy on Wonder bread. But that's just all so wrong.  The right way to do it is more authentic in all three dimensions:
 * First, the bread should be one with a firm, heavy texture, like a "wheat berry" style. Perhaps the best possible for the purpose, of mass-marketed sliced breads, is Orowheat Master's Best Winter Wheat.  Sorry for the advert sound of that &mdash; I have no connection with Orowheat, but really, try it.
 * Then, the peanut butter &mdash; it has to be "natural". Crunchy or creamy is a matter of taste, but avoiding added sugar and hydrogenation, that's more a matter of breeding.
 * Finally, the jam should be something strongly flavored with lots of pulp and/or seeds. The best possible is the one my grandmother used to make from the plum tree in our backyard when I was growing up.  Sorry, can't tell you where to get that one.  Yes, thick-cut marmalade will do nicely (tawny marmalade for a nice change-up). --Trovatore (talk) 06:45, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * On topic, the maple syrup page mentions Japans buys 10% of Canada's exports. It is the only country discussed by volume beside the U.S. and Canada, with an aside that Koreans tap their trees and drink the sap without boiling it down first. Rmhermen (talk) 14:12, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Was trying to track down the volume of fake syrup to real when I found this add for a work-at-home imitation maple syrup "business" - from 1909. Some things never change. Rmhermen (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Both real maple syrup and the fake stuff is easily available in NZ. By easily I mean from my local supermarkets. They're generally stored with I believe stuff like golden syrup not in the speciality/imported sections local supermarkets usually have. Admitedly I live in Auckland (but not the rich areas), so I have no idea what it's like out in the wops. The real stuff isn't cheap and generally comes from Canada. The fake stuff is usually less then probably 1/4 of the price when you consider quantities and I think generally comes from NZ or Australia (well at least it's brands like Chelsea and Cottees ) and as with most products here, generally made with sugar (in the form of inverted sugar syrup) not corn syrup. You can see the brands available at Countdown (supermarket) here . On and manuka honey is sold with normal honey and cheaper (well for the cheapish stuff not the fancy umf whatever or active manuka honey stuff) then real maple syrup when you consider quantities altho still a lot more expensive (over 2 times) then clover blend honey although it's not something that interests me enough to know how much it's changed over the past 10 years or so that I've been here (but I presume it's gone up compared to other honeys as international interest has increased). BTW, I've tried real maple syrup before, and while it does have a more complex taste (and is generally not as sweet) as the fake stuff, I never realy considered it worth the cost or for that matter anything to rave about. Also I did come across  which says Kiwis eat an average of 2 kgs of honey each a year. Nil Einne (talk) 16:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I used to be given this as cough medicine 50-60 years ago in the UK. It was just great! I suppose it was genuine but trades descriptions weren't so regulated in those days. We never had it as anything other than medicine. Now it is commonplace. The bottle in our kitchen cupboard says it is pure and comes from Canada. I'm not so keen on it these days. Thincat (talk) 19:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * In Germany, maple syrup is available at most upscale or larger supermarkets. It's not a luxury item, but also nothing the regular customer would know what to do with. I sometimes get it for pancakes, but I rarely make US style pancakes, and I don't use it for anything else. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 01:02, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Maple syrup is also produced in the US, particularly in the state of Vermont. Here most syrup is the fake stuff, but with perhaps 1% real maple syrup so they can do deceptive advertising legally like "contains 100% pure maple syrup" (not sure if the 100% part is legal).  One hint is that the fake stuff almost always comes in plastic containers, while the real maple syrup in in small glass jugs or flasks.  The price difference per ounce is more like 10X here.  As for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, those are generally considered kid's food, and always served with a glass of milk.  As an adult, I prefer peanut butter on wheat bread with banana slices. StuRat (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to add to the general confusion, in the UK we have traditionally used a lot of Tate & Lyle's Golden Syrup on pancakes and in puddings. It comes in a nice tin with a picture of a dead lion surrounded by bees and the Biblical motto "Out of the strong came forth sweetness" (Book of Judges: Chapter 14 Verse 14). I don't think it's made from either dead lions or bees but from sugar cane. Proper British syrup. Alansplodge (talk) 17:10, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I wonder what school of marketing decided a decaying animal corpse with insect scavengers nesting on it would make people's mouths start to water. StuRat (talk) 17:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It's Britain's the world's oldest brand apparently - what do marketing schools know? Alansplodge (talk) 20:07, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I see, it's become a "tradition", similar to how the bare bum of the Coppertone baby was allowed to remain in ads long after it otherwise would have been thought to be inappropriate. StuRat (talk) 20:13, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Quite so, but with a bit more style, if I may be so bold. Here you can read about efforts to conserve Captain Scott's own tin of the stuff in the Antarctic. Food fit for heroes. Alansplodge (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC)