Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 February 7

= February 7 =

Hot Water Heater issue
My hot water heater used to be able to fill the entire bathtub, now it on fills a quarter of it with hot water. What is wrong with it?Accdude92 (talk) 01:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Off the top of my head (non-authoritative) if it's an old water heater it may have filled up with sediment. Particles in your water accumulate and literally fill the tank up, leaving less space for water. --Quartermaster (talk) 01:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That makes since, because the faucet gets clauged up with sediment, and losses pressure. Is there any way to fix it without a new heater?Accdude92 (talk) 01:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * There is (should be) a valve at the bottom on the tank, often it's made of plastic. Attach a garden hose to it, and run it into a drain that is lower than the tank. Turn off the gas to the heater, including the pilot. Turn off the incoming water, open the drain valve, and open any hot water tap in the house (to let air in). This will cause gravity to drain the entire tank. When it's empty, cycle the incoming water on and off to try to blast any sediment on the bottom of the tank out the drain. Keep working on it till the water is clear. The tank will be much lighter, so be careful not to move it and damage your pipes. Then turn the drain valve off and the incoming valve on and refill it - leave the hot water tap on (to let air out) till water starts to come out of it. I'm sure there are videos and step by step instructions online if you search for "flush hot water tank". Ariel. (talk) 09:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * WARNING If a water heater is drained while the heat is on, the tank can be destroyed if gas fired. Edison (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point! Thanks. I edited my instructions. 05:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * (To clarify &mdash; is the problem that the flow stops entirely after you draw a quarter tub of hot water, or is it just that the water that comes out after the first quarter-tub or so is cold?) If you have an electric water heater, there may be a problem with an element or thermostat.  Many electric heaters have two elements, one at the bottom of the tank, and one somewhere in the top half.   If the lower element has stopped working (either the element itself or the lower thermostat is broken), then the upper element will tend to only heat the top half (or so) of the tank. Hot water will tend to float on top of the cold water, and once the top half is warm the thermostat on the upper element will shut it off. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It is one of those old gas ones. And to answer your question, the water gets cold.Accdude92 (talk) 02:53, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I had that happen with a rented gas water heater. I called the company and they replaced it, and I asked how it could fail in this way.  As I recall, the explanation was to the effect that, to ensure that all the water was mixed and heated, the cold water inlet was at one end of the tank and the hot water outlet at the other end.  Since both pipes connect to the top of the unit, there has to be a vertical pipe inside it.  If this pipe corrodes and breaks, the water below the break doesn't mix much with the water above, so you effectively lose the capcity to heat the water below the break.  --Anonymous, 05:04 UTC, February 7, 2011.


 * You are referring to the dip tube. It directs incoming cold water to the bottom of the tank so it gets heated while displacing the hot water to the top of the tank where it is drawn off. Without a dip tube, the cold water mixes with the hot. Looks like there were a series of heaters with defective dip tubes. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 09:31, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * We had the broken off dip tube replaced on a water heater and got a few more years out of it. Edison (talk) 20:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Outsorcing Pharma product ...
I have an Idea about a pharma product and I want to start a business for it .. but the problem is that I want to outsource the production of that product instead of setting a production plant myself.. ...... Is it leagel to outsource pharma product production ... and which are the companys I can outsource my product... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.96.217 (talk) 03:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You're asking us for legal advice, which we cannot give. If you are really starting a business, especially one involving pharmaceuticals, you will definitely need to consult trained legal counsel on a number of issues before beginning. Don't try to get that kind of information off of the internet unless you enjoy being sued. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The question hardly seems to step over the bounds as far as I can see. Searching for "outsourcing pharmaceutical manufacturing" gives lots of hits, such as Bayer Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Services. However you first have to deal with testing and getting government approval, very, very big hurdles, before even thinking about distribution and marketing. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It steps over the bounds quite definitely because the OP is asking us for actual advice for their own business operations. But I do not have a problem with characterizing the magnitude of the effort, if it impresses the need for real counsel upon them! --Mr.98 (talk) 12:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * (Edit Conflicts) To answer the general question from personal experience of being employed at a large "Big Pharma" manufacturing plant: yes, it is quite usual for companies owning a licenced pharmaceutical product to outsource its manufacture to another company - there are many pharmaceutical manufacturers that specialise in making such products (as well as out-of-patent "generic drugs"), and companies that make their own products sometimes also take on such contracts to keep their facilities fully employed. However, getting a pharmaceutical product tested and licenced by the USA's FDA and/or the UK's MHRA, which is mandatory to sell products in the relevant areas (other countries have equivalent organisations), and then marketed generally takes a "Big Pharma" company (that knows what it's doing) approaching ten years and a billion US$.
 * Another approach is for a small company that has discovered a promising "molecule" (the industrial jargon, since that is what in essence a drug is) to form a business "joint venture" with a larger company with the facilities to test, get licenced, manufacture, package (a complex procedure), advertise, distribute and sell the product. This is common, though the smaller companies usually consist of several to dozens of scientifically qualified personnel plus the usual business staff.
 * All "Big Pharma" companies of course have large research arms with multi-billion dollar budgets that are continually investigating thousands of "candidate molecules", delivery methods etc, so the chances of a lone individual having hit on something they have not already patented are slim. However, as "slim" does not mean "zero", the best option (I would suggest) for such an individual or startup company new to the field would be to approach a patent agent specialising in pharmaceuticals and have that agent check whether this new idea is truly new, legally viable and practically feasible, and proceed onwards as the agent advises. A reputable patent agent will not rip off a client's ideas, because that would likely destroy their reputation and business, and will be eager to help with a promising concept as they stand to make serious money from their contractual cut of the eventual profits. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, there is one way that a private individual can develop a pharma product: if it is derived from a plant and can be sold as a "natural supplement".  There are very few laws governing such things, and big pharma generally won't touch them because they can't be patented.  If the product is synthetic, on the other hand, FDA approval is required and that's a big deal. Looie496 (talk) 23:15, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Small clarification: It's not the case that there are few laws governing them (or, in any case, fewer than regulate other drugs). It's that the laws that do govern them are very permissive. The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 effectively says that the FDA cannot regulate dietary supplements as drugs, only as foods. (So if it doesn't kill you outright, it's essentially unregulated. Truth in advertising is much weaker for foods than drugs, as are claims to quality.) See Dietary_supplement. It's a recipe for a burgeoning market of quackery, of course, but there were strong political forces involved (something to do with the Mormons, if I recall). --Mr.98 (talk) 16:23, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

At the Sign of the Red Pale
I wasn't sure whether this was appropriate for the Humanities division of the Reference desk, so I am putting it here.

I have a booklet which dates to late 1926, and I am trying to find out about its publisher. The only clue is a logo on the back cover, reading "At the Sign of the Red Pale" and showing, engraved, a white shield with a red pale (wide vertical band running down the centre). There is the article Caxton Press, which makes no mention to the name in connection to this printer, and my on-line search for information about it has failed to turn up anything that wasn't about 15th-century printer William Caxton, from whom the phrase derives. I may want to cite the booklet in question at some point, so any information about the publisher would be appreciated; there is a five-digit number below the logo which could yield some useful information if I knew where to look. Waltham, The Duke of 09:36, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has an article Caxton Press that mentions presses of this name in Ireland, Idaho and New Zealand. The business of William Caxton (1422–1491), the first British Printer, was at the sign of the "Red Pale". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Just a note, the Caxton Press in the article is not in Ireland, I have corrected the hatnote and the categories. Anyway, His Grace said he had found the article, and is aware of the connexion to William Caxton. What he is looking for is the publisher of the booklet he has. DuncanHill (talk) 10:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A Google search turns up a large number of different businesses named "Caxton Press". Does the booklet provide any clues to help narrow down the choices?  For example, knowing the topic, or the country of publication would help. Warofdreams talk 12:46, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There was a 1926 booklet, At the Sign of the Red Pale: being a short history of the house of Vacher & Sons Ltd., of Westminster, 1751-1926, published by Vacher and Sons, the publishers of Vacher's Parliamentary Companion. This suggests it was written by Stanley Low, who was the editor of the Companion at the time - http://www.dodonline.co.uk/engine.asp?showPage=article&id=1138&nohead=1.  Any help?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The title of the booklet is "Historical Note on the Mosaics at the Palace of Westminster", and it was written by "Thomas Wilson, Deputy Keeper of Westminster Hall and Clerk of Works, Houses of Parliament". I thought I should have mentioned that when starting this section but for some reason I didn't. Anyway, Ghmyrtle's lead seems promising. I am travelling today (leaving in ten minutes), so I'll check again tomorrow. Thank you all for your help so far. Waltham, The Duke of 13:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Based on the title of the book I was able to locate two catalog records in OCLC Worldcat: OCLC and OCLC . In both cases the catalogers state "Printed for private circulation" which hints that there is no "publisher" in the sense of a formal publishing house, but rather this was commissioned and done by an independent printer (I know, fine distinctions of "publisher" and "printer"). In both cases they also list place of publication as "London?" and publisher as s.n.. The author is listed as "Thomas Wilson." Only three libraries (in WorldCat) indicate ownership of this item (you could contact them, but I'm not optimistic you'd get a good answer): House of Lords Library/Record Office, The Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and the Huntington Library (San Marino, California). --Quartermaster (talk) 14:12, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * There really is much more to researching than knowing about a couple of databases and how to use Google. I knew about OCLC and the like but didn't think to use the title as a search item; after all, I was only looking for some information with which to be able to write a full citation, and it seemed to me that information on a publisher (or, in this case, printer) is easier to find than information on a specific publication (I already possess a copy of the booklet, purchased via eBay). I'm not surprised, either, that the House of Lords Library has a copy, and I'm sure there's a lot of material I could view if I lived in London. But that's a different story...
 * Note: both pages make reference to a second edition of the booklet, and nothing on my copy suggested anything of the sort. From what I can remember (I don't have it here), it gave the impression that it was printed for the occasion of the unveiling in 1926. Anyway, the information is very useful, and I am most thankful for it. Waltham, The Duke of 13:51, 8 February 2011 (UTC)