Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 January 8

= January 8 =

Photographs of convicts
Regularly on the news (I'm in the UK) we see people attending trials or just convicted being driven away in a police van. Always, there are photographers desperately holding their cameras up to the small, dark and high windows in the van. The thing is, I've never seen anything that might be one of those pictures anywhere before; since I very much doubt such a technique would give a press-quality picture, one is left wondering: why do they bother? Are the photographs not for artistic merit? Are there always newbie photographers who don't realise that's not going to work? Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 18:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gallery/2010/dec/16/julian-assange-high-court-pictures -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 18:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The mass media, particularly television, loves pictures. If they don't have a picture it's not news. You probably see quite a few such pictures, but only those that work. HiLo48 (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Most of them are probably amateur would-be paparatzzi. There are several windows in those vans, you'd be lucky to get the right one. The image is likely to be blurred at least. 92.15.7.205 (talk) 20:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Julian Assange is not a convict. Flashlights on police vans can serve to focus public attention on the circumstance, or to reassure the arrestee that their case is in the public eye. Taking pictures of people taking pictures is also a way of making news where otherwise there might not be much to record. If and when I launch my career as a mega-celebrity, I shall employ jostling hordes of Paparazzi to pursue me as I wail I want to be alone. Just be sure to photograph my good side. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me be the first to advise you of what Garbo herself said: I never said, 'I want to be alone.' I only said, 'I want to be let alone.' There is all the difference. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  23:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't you get up-to-date movies where you live? As the Russian ballerina Grusinskaya in Grand Hotel (1932), Garbo said "I want to be alone." Cuddlyable3 (talk) 03:00, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, that's what her character said in that movie. But Garbo herself said, about herself, "I want to be let alone".  The confusion comes from people taking the movie quote and mixing it up with what she said in real life in a completely unrelated context.  This has not yet made it to our List of misquotations, but it's high time it did.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  04:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, yes, informed people know this about Garbo and her words are sourced here. Strictly speaking, she said "I want to be alone" on at least 3 instances: A)Practicing her lines before filming Grand Hotel, B) in the movie (there may have been re-takes) and C) when she quoted the sentence for the purpose of denying it. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 05:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, yes, yes, all very true. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  06:48, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the prison vans have seperate cubicles for each person. I expect the seats are on the outside and the person faces inwards towards a central corridor. Mr. Assange may have deliberately stood up, turned around, and looked out of the (red?!) window, but most people would want to keep their heads down, literally and metaphorically. 92.15.24.111 (talk) 17:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

The vans do have separate cubicles in which you are seated facing forward so you can look out of the window.Hotclaws (talk) 19:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Do you mean that when you sit down, you would (if on the left) be facing forward in the direction of travel, with the window on the left and the door to your cubicle on the right? And I thought the windows were small and high up, so that you would not be able to see out of them when siitting down? 92.15.3.168 (talk) 21:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If we look at File:Reliance FX04LXE.jpg, it would appear that the window height is probably a bit above the head level of a seated prisoner, but certainly low enough that they could look through if they stood (it's not clear from the photo what the floor level of the cabin is, and I've been unable to find a photo of the interior of a uk prisoner transport vehicle). -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 22:05, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The ones I was thinking of are lorry-sized with small high windows. 92.15.3.168 (talk) 00:02, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The windows are blacked out with a plastic film. After his conviction Dennis Nilsen stripped the film off so that photographers could get images of him in the prison van. Author Brian Masters used the resulting picture on the front cover of his book about the case. Sam Blacketer (talk) 22:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)