Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 July 3

= July 3 =

Which cell phone provider in Austria is best?
So, my sis is staying in Austria for about a month and needs an Austrian SIM. Anyone know which provider is best there? By best I mean cheapest for calling and she can cancel when that month is up. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 10:57, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Category:Mobile phone companies of Austria. Vist the website of each company to find the pre-pay tariffs.  However, as is my experience with European mobile operators, you might find there is little difference between providers.  You might also find your choice restricted by whose shop you can find when you arrive.  Astronaut (talk) 13:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And remember that you phone might have been locked to your current provider's SIM cards only. Astronaut (talk) 13:19, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Guys, sis = sister. I am in Israel, it's my sister that is in Austria.... :p She is in Innsbruck with her bf, but they're both too American to get things right imho. I will maybe look at the sites, though personal experience with each would be great. She could get a phone there too as a rental ofc. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 17:17, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops! Sorry for not reading the question fully.  I hope you sister is not too offended.  Astronaut (talk) 06:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Meh, I've never cared about her being offended, you shouldn't either. :p She found one for 40 Euro with a pay as you go plan. It's all good now, thanks. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 17:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Im making model of PS MEDWAY QUEEN
C0uld you please help with either a drawing or technical information on the feathering action of paddle wheels as used THE MEDWAY QUEEN. I am aware that they do have web site and have used the same.Wondered if you could help  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.88.202 (talk) 18:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd think you'd get better results by asking there. StuRat (talk) 07:45, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Comments relating to 1957 Kentucky Derby
Not really a question, but an overview of changes I just made in 2 places (racing horses Iron Liege and Gallant Man, who finished #1 and #2 respectively in Kentucky Derby in 1957). There are 2 youtube entries showing at least part of this race, and they do show Bill Shoemaker, aboard Gallant Man, starting to stand up in stirrups too early, then correcting this and continuting to try to catch Iron Liege, ridden by jockey Bill Hartack. Gallant Man fell short by a nose.

The Wikipedia entries on those 2 horses made it appear that Gallant Man was ahead and was passed by Iron Liege as a result of Bill Shoemaker's mistake. But as I just said, I saw that Iron Liege was ahead, and Bill Shoemaker's mistake presumably caused Gallant Man to fall short (by a nose). Do you understand what I am saying? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.52.3 (talk) 18:19, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What you need to do is to raise the issue at the talk pages of the articles you wish to see changed (use the "Discussion" tab). Also, your changes look like they are not allowed, in that they are not based on reliable sources.  This is because the analysis of the video represents your own personal view of what the video means (see WP:SYN).  It is not enough to just provide the video and say "Look, anyone can see for themselves that..."  What you need is reliable, published commentary that analyzes the video and comes to the conclusions you have.  Insofar as your edits appear to rely purely on your own opinion of what the video is showing, you shouldn't do that.  If, however, reliable experts have published an analysis that arrives at that conclusion, you should cite that analysis (assuming it is a reliable source as defined by WP:RS) and not the original video.  -- Jayron  32  18:32, 3 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it's always nice for the material in articles to be actually correct, and the edits have not thus far been reverted. But it would be a useful thing if you would place the explanation above on the talk pages of the articles, where there is some chance that editors who watch those articles will actually see it. Looie496 (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I googled [1957 kentucky derby] and this item popped up, describing the race as the OP says. Doesn't appear to be any sort of mystery. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:30, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It is rather amazing to see Shoemaker stand up in the stirrups for a second or so, at about the 1:02 or 1:03 mark of this film. It looked like he had a good shot at winning if he hadn't messed up. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

First appereance question
Can you tell me about the first usage of the name Rilchiam? Bonelayer12864 (talk) 18:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The word, a portmanteau between "Richard" and "William", was created by Lewis Carroll in The Hunting of the Snark (1874). Tevildo (talk) 18:55, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * More precisely, he created it in the Introduction to The Hunting of the Snark in the course of explaining the word "chortle" which he had coined in the poem itself. --ColinFine (talk) 21:48, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The term "chortle" appeared 3 years earlier, in the "Jabberwocky" poem in "Through the Looking-Glass". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:38, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops. Serves me right for not checking. You're right, of course, Bugs. He was "defending" his use of the word in the earlier poem - I don't think it's in the Snark. --ColinFine (talk) 23:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

"Yer outta here" in American Baseball
Ejecting a manager from a game is one of the great traditions of American baseball, and over on Y!Sports there is a recent article on the five most-tossed-out managers in the game.

What's unclear is this: is there a penalty (cash or otherwise) for being ejected -- for example, if you're figuratively paid "by the game", do you forfeit some part of one game's pay when you're thrown out? Is it different for players vs. managers?

P.S. It's the Fourth of July everyplace in the world today, but in the U.S. it's Independence Day -- Happy Birthday, America! DaHorsesMouth (talk) 23:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not quite the 4th yet here in Seattle, despite the UTC datestamp, but thanks! Pfly (talk) 06:02, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is a defined penalty for simply being ejected, but it is pretty common for the action that led to the ejection to result in a fine or suspension. Looie496 (talk) 00:21, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably not, actually, since most manager ejections are over commonplace things like "arguing balls and strikes" and that kind of stuff. This is one of those issues like fighting in hockey.  It's part of baseball culture, (nearly) every manager gets thrown out of games a few times every year, and usually its for penny-ante stuff.  I would be quite shocked if they were fined, excepting in rare cases where something out of the ordinary happens.  But this is one of those "part of the game" things that I don't expect garners that much of an official response from MLB officials.  -- Jayron  32  00:29, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Honestly it's sort of the manager's job in some ways. When a terrible call gets made (or a contentious one) the team can't just lie down and take it.  Having the manager go over and kick some dirt around home plate saves having a star athlete ejected over an argument.  The players kinda "leave it to the manager" as I've heard it, accepting that if he's going to say something they don't have to, and better to have someone with less impact on the game thrown out. HominidMachinae (talk) 05:34, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There was this one time when Leo Durocher, maybe during his years as an L.A. Dodgers coach, got into a yelling match with Jocko Conlan. Durocher went to kick dirt on the plate, his foot slipped, and he kicked Conlan smack in the shin! Normally that would call for immediate ejection. But instead, Conlan kicked Durocher right back! I expect there was a fine imposed for that (maybe even on both of them), but Durocher liked to tell this story, the punch line being that, as an umpire, Conlan was wearing shin guards! So Durocher got the worst end of the deal all around. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:47, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Does this ever worked? Or is everyone just going through the motions? Royor (talk) 06:07, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's also for the fans' benefit. If the umpire makes a terrible call and the manager goes out and kicks some dirt and gets in the umpire's face, it's great entertainment for everyone watching. The only time the manager is really punished for this is if it goes on for a long time, he physically assaults the umpire, or he starts throwing the bases or other equipment...usually it's just spectacle. Sometimes I think there is no actual argument, he just goes out, chats with the ump, and they agree to have the ump throw him out just for the spectacle of it. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:14, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sometimes there's a theatrical aspect to it, sometimes there are other things going on. There was a story, maybe in Joe Garagiola's book several decades ago, about a manager getting into an argument on a very hot day, and no matter what cursewords the manager threw at the umpire, the ump wouldn't eject him. The ump told him, "If I have to stay here, so do you!" Ron Luciano wrote a lot about confrontations with managers, and how much of a royal pain Earl Weaver was. Arguing is as old as the game itself, and used to be more drastic. In the so-called "first game" of baseball, in 1846, a player was fined for swearing at the umpire. In the 1885 World Series, involving Chicago (NL) and St. Louis (AA), the Browns got so mad at an umpire's call that they pulled their team off the field and forfeited the game! A more comical view of this subject was expressed in Bull Durham, where it appears that Crash Davis was trying to get ejected on purpose. Last year Sports Illustrated did a story on the most-ejected manager of all time, Bobby Cox, who had passed John McGraw at some point, and it's fair to say that both men were often just trying to fire up their teams. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:31, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Another fictional presentation (can't find it on youtube) is for a beer, I think Bud Light. The manager and the umpire are yelling at each other, but their dialogue indicates that they're actually friends and the manager is offering to bring some beer to a dinner party if he can get away early and beat the traffic. The ump goes, "Bud Light? Looks like... YER OUTTA HERE!" The punch line is that even when visiting at home, their normal conversation consists of yelling. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)