Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 June 19

= June 19 =

Who is the oldest English person alive
Who is the oldest English person alive? Just Curious. Neptunekh2 (talk) 00:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Violet Wood at 111 years. See List of oldest living people by nation. Tevildo (talk) 01:07, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * More here. Alansplodge (talk) 16:05, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Can one get tan underwater?
When swimming in an outdoor pool, is one able to get tan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.253.137 (talk) 01:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * One is not only able to get tan, one is able to get extremely sunburned -- especially if one lives in Phoenix. Looie496 (talk) 01:46, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Water does block UV radiation, but not all of it and only at significant depths. If you are scuba diving 10m down, then you're probably safe, but swimming at the surface isn't going to reduce your UV exposure much at all. It can also wash off sun screen, so you can actually tan/burn faster than you would otherwise. --Tango (talk) 15:03, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And water also partially reflects UV radiation, so you're also getting a larger dose than you may think (i.e. direct from the sun and also reflected upwards from the water). A great way to get a sunburned head. Matt Deres (talk) 14:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Citizenship of a baby born to a US citizen mother in another country
The mother is a US citizen currently resident in France, her husband is a French citizen. What is the procedure that she must follow to ensure that her baby is recognized as a US citizen? The family are planning to move to the US some time after the child is born and would like to avoid any complications upon arrival. The child has been diagnosed with a disability so they are concerned that she will be eligible for the relevant social/medical service benefits and health insurance as a US citizen. Roger (talk) 13:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia's Reference Desk cannot – and should not be relied upon to – give legal advice regarding the acquisition of citizenship. (Bluntly, you shouldn't trust random strangers on the internet to give advice that can change people's lives, and the volunteers who respond to questions here are not in any way specially-qualified, nor are they representatives of the Wikimedia Foundation.)  The family should contact the U.S. State Department through their local embassy or consulate for official advice on the appropriate paperwork: .  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:21, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This reference desk cannot provide you with binding legal advice, per WP:NOLEGAL. If you want real advice on this, you have to consult a lawyer or a U.S. official. That being said, this page seems relevant. The "social/medical service benefits and health insurance" situation might well depend on other issues than mere citizenship. Gabbe (talk) 13:23, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not asking for a legal answer. My question is: "What is the procedure that she must follow to ensure that her baby is recognized as a US citizen?" The rest of the information I gave merely as the rationale for the question. An answer such as "Go to the US Embassy (1234 Whatever Street, Paris) and fill out form ABC-123/X 'Registration of birth of a US citizen in a foreign country' and pay a $10 fee." would do. Roger (talk) 13:55, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This actually happened with one of my cousins (though both parents were US citizens), who was born in London. Idk what they did, but yeah, letting the embassy know seems to be best. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 14:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The procedure she must follow is to contact her local consulate/embassy and seek specific, current, accurate advice. The responses you've been given already contain specific links to two U.S. government web pages which touch on the issue.  It's not appropriate for us to interpret the rules and regulations beyond that, and you shouldn't rely on random Internet-dwelling strangers to spoon-feed you the information &mdash; particularly when you're dealing with an issue as important and sensitive as acquiring/asserting citizenship.   TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:18, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Whatever, the main info given was go to the embassy. That's not exactly unreliable or untrustworthy advice. If we keep screaming no legal advice and no medical advice in the way that it is being done here, it might make some people afraid to ask certain questions for fear that it might be broadly construed as falling into that category. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 14:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The actual address is: Embassy of the United States, 2, avenue Gabriel, 75382 Paris CEDEX 08, France, also on the Internet here or ici en francais and contactable by e-mail citizeninfo@state.gov. You want their form called "Department of State: Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America". You may contact me by e-mail to see an example reply from a US embassy. (post redacted) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * A reply which is worse than useless, as it is a decade out of date, and deals with pre-9/11 policy and regulations. Since then, all of the agencies and paperwork involved have changed (certainly in name, and likely in substance).  You should not rely on such old information, and you should rely even less on individuals who think that that type of badly-dated information would be helpful to you. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Roger, see the United States Department of State official information page on birth of American citizens abroad: http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/birth/birth_593.html. Neutralitytalk 17:53, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll note that that exact link was in the very first response given to the question, by me, four hours ago. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Note that this not-yet-born child will be a U.S. citizen at birth if the U.S. citizen parent meets a presence-in-the-U.S. requirement and a genetic requirement: "...provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth..." [see link for details] "The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship." (Elsewhere on the State Department's site) As TenOfAllTrades points out, the U.S. citizen parent is well advised to contact the U.S. consulate and get current instructions on how to document the child's status as an American citizen. --- OtherDave (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Lloyds TSB and Halifax
My local Branch of Halifax closed down recently, but there is a branch of Lloyds TSB in the same town. As a Halifax account holder can I use my Halifax account in my local Lloyds? 86.166.11.34 (talk) 14:00, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes. From the article you linked to, "Halifax is a trading name of Bank of Scotland, itself a subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group."--Shantavira|feed me 15:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't see why it follows that just because Halifax is now owned by Lloyds, you can now use a Halifax account in a Lloyds branch. The Halifax, Bank of Scotland and Lloyds TSB websites don't list each others' branches on their branch finders.  I can't see any information about this on the Halifax website - you should probably call them (even if you can't use the branch now, it is possible that they are planning to merge their systems in the future). 81.98.38.48 (talk) 15:27, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed, it doesn't follow. Clydesdale Bank owns Yorkshire Bank, but one cannot do banking for one in the other's branches. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 15:43, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Though just in case you didn't realise, there are some services for which you should be able to use any branch of any bank (for example withdrawing cash from an ATM), and there are plenty of things you should be able to do online, by phone, or by post. 81.98.38.48 (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Have you tried going into Lloyd's and asking? DuncanHill (talk) 13:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Is the Jacib Barnett story a hoax?
Same as the heading. --Melab±1 &#9742; 14:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you mean the Jacob Barnet affair, Wikipedia has a sourced article about it. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:49, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I expect this refers to Jacob Barnett, a 12-year-old from Indiana who apparently has an IQ rated at 170, is currently a college student, and has worked on advanced topics in physics. The story was extensively reported in newspapers, and there are youtube videos -- I'm kind of surprised that we don't have an article. Looie496 (talk) 20:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Articles for deletion/Jacob Barnett: here yesterday, gone today. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Another snack for the deletionist wolves. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:10, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * About as strong a consensus to delete as you're ever going to find. Anyway, not a hoax. Just not yet notable. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:53, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Whenever someone says "wikipedia has an article on everything", I feel like I should show them a list of articles the deletionists have sent to the phantom zone. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * "We have an article on everything" is funny and all, but it shouldn't be literally true. There is tons of other garbage that should be deleted too, but "inclusionists" prevent it from happening. Ugh, and AfD pages like that one just make me realize how bad it's gotten. Anyway, deletionists drive like this, etc. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know whether it's a hoax (probably not), but if you ignore his age, there's nothing unusual about him. He learned some big bang cosmology and is confused about some aspects of it. Nothing wrong with that, unless he stops learning at that point and spends the rest of his life convinced that he's found the fatal flaw in modern science that was missed by all those dumb PhDs.


 * The stupidest part of the reporting of this story is the claim that he has an IQ of 170 and that this makes him "smarter than Einstein". There is no truth to the seemingly common belief that there is an integer quantity measuring people's "smartness" and that we know how to measure its value and have measured it in various famous people. There are a lot of aptitude tests whose scores are normalized to 100 and such scores are sometimes called IQs. They aren't interchangeable. IQ scores were originally supposed to be a ratio of "mental age" to chronological age in children, so a score of 170 in a 12-year-old, if you took it seriously as a ratio, would just mean that he had the mental age of a typical 20-year-old, which isn't very smart in absolute terms. Some Googling turned up this text, apparently from his Wikipedia article before it was deleted, which says that he scored 170 in math on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children, and that this is the highest possible score. So, I gather that he correctly answered all of the questions on a math test designed for children. Again, this is impressive for a 12-year-old but doesn't make him smarter than a typical mathematically minded 20-year-old.


 * Einstein was 70 years old when the WISC was introduced. I'm pretty sure Einstein never took any "IQ test", and certainly not any modern one, and if he did you couldn't compare his score on that to a score on the WISC. This page suggests that the commonly quoted fake IQ score for Einstein (160) was invented by Catherine Cox Miles, for what that's worth. -- BenRG (talk) 04:55, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Getting from Paris/Orly to Paris/Charles de Gaulle
The National Library of France (http://www.bnf.fr) answered my question about getting from Paris/Orly to Paris/Charles de Gaulle. They estimate the trip itself will take 1.5 hours. I imagine the crucial part will be waiting for my luggage at Paris/Orly and checking in to my connecting flight at Paris/Charles de Gaulle. I understand it's self-evident that my luggage won't be automatically transported throughout the entire central Paris, I will have to carry it myself. Do I need to go through the entire check-in process when I get to Charles de Gaulle? Are there self-check-in machines there so I won't have to wait in line to have an actual person check me in? I've used such machines in Helsinki-Vantaa airport and found them very convenient. There seem to be two metro stations at Charles de Gaulle. How do I know which one I'm supposed to get off at? J I P &#124; Talk 19:33, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There are self check-in machines at CDG. Can you ask your airline co. which station? Itsmejudith (talk) 20:30, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * But perhaps the self check-in machines can only be used if you have only hand luggage? Can't remember. I'm sure you can find out from your airline or from the airport. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:38, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The self check-in machines can be also be used if you have cargo luggage, you just have to leave the cargo luggage at the airline desk. The self check-in machine replaces all other steps that have to be taken before reaching the security check. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether you have to go through the entire check-in process again depends on whether you already have a boarding pass for the second flight; a distinct possibility if you are staying with the same airline, but maybe not as you have to transfer to a different airport. You should check these details with the airline(s).  If I remember correctly, there are self check-in machines and "fast bag drop" counters at CDG.  Alternatively, you could probably check-in online for your second flight (if you can get online within 24 hours of your 2nd departure) and then go straight to the "fast bag drop" counters.
 * CDG is served by RER Line B stopping first for Terminals 1 & 3 then terminating at Terminal 2. Make sure you get on the right train and don't end up at one of the other three ends of Line B.  Travel time is 75 mins from Anthony station plus another 8 mins on the ORLYVAL from Orly to Anthony; even so, I really think 1.5 hours is hugely over optimistic considering you have to retrieve your luggage, find the right terminal at CDG amd maybe check-in again.  Linking the terminals, the RER stations, and the parking is CDGVAL, an automated tram - I've not used the tram but I believe it is an improvement over the buses that used to do the same job.  You might find Aéroports de Paris's website useful, particularly this guide to connections (though it doesn't say how long it will take), but you will need to know which terminals you will be using.  Astronaut (talk) 15:45, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Come to think of it, minimum check-in time at CDG is about an hour before departure. If you do have to check-in again, you will have to go really, really fast to get your baggage at Orly and make it to CDG in just 2 hours (you have just 3 hours between flights, right?). At this stage, I would now be really worried about missing my connection and would be asking about changing my flight plans - perhaps so I can land at CDG or looking up the price of helicopter transfers. Astronaut (talk) 16:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am staying with the same airline, it's Air France. The flight to Helsinki leaves from Terminal 2D, so I guess I have to go to the terminus of the RER line. I will try to contact the airline to ask if I can get a boarding pass straight away on the first flight. J I P  &#124; Talk 19:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * JIP, as I indicated last time, you are really unlikely to make it from the gate, collect your luggage, make it to ground transportation, then get yourself from ground transportation through check-in and security at CDG and then from security to your departure gate, all in just 3 hours. If at all possible, I would try to arrange a different connection:  either an earlier flight from Nice, a later flight to Helsinki (perhaps an overnight in Paris), or else try connecting through a different airport served by planes from both Nice and Helsinki, such as Copenhagen or Stockholm.  Marco polo (talk) 20:40, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am quite confident it's possible to switch to an earlier flight from Nice or to a later flight to Helsinki, or even to buy a new flight to Helsinki when I reach Charles de Gaulle. The only problem is that it will probably cost me over 200 €, on top of the 250 € that I have already paid for the flights from Helsinki to Nice and back. I didn't even notice to include a "cancel without cause" option, I can only cancel the flights and get a refund if I get sick or there's a death in my family. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:56, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Luggage on the EN 301 train
The Swedish railways finally answered my question about safe boxes on the EN 301 train. There are apparently no such boxes on the train. So now I have two options: either try to get a private sleeping cabin at Stockholm railway station (I asked at Helsinki railway station, but they could only reserve a first-class cabin, which was way too expensive), or try to manage in a couchette car. I just tried to put my camera bag, with the camera inside, in my backpack, and it fit, with just a tiny bit of trouble getting it through the opening. I might be overly paranoid here, but I've never travelled in a couchette car before, and I wouldn't want my camera stolen. Should I just put the camera bag in the backpack and store the backpack in a luggage compartment? J I P &#124; Talk 19:39, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Try this. Take a long length of string, and attach it securely and firmly to the camera.  Tie a noose around the other and, and feed the string up your pants leg and attach the noose around your testicles.  Instant security alarm; as soon as someone tries to filch your camera, you will be awakened rather abruptly... -- Jayron  32  20:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This actually gave me a laugh, thanks. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Or if the attacker is particularly vigorous, the guy will find himself in the unhappy situation of being without either his camera or his testicles :( Lemon martini (talk) 12:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thieves on trains have been known to throw stolen articles out of a window to be collected later. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:09, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Most of the night-time journey will be made on a ferry, so there's no place to throw the stolen articles to. Also it's a direct connection between Malmö and Berlin, there is no opportunity for anyone to get on or off the train in between. I am quite sure there is negligibly minimal risk of theft on this particular trip. Still, I will make the bare necessary precautions. J I P  &#124; Talk 19:33, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We gave you a lot of advice on this subject last time you asked. --Tango (talk) 20:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I will have to go by that advice then. The trip is only one and a half weeks away now. I guess I'll just have to go on the train and not worry about things beforehand. Putting the camera bag in the backpack should be precaution enough. I guess I'm just being overly paranoid here. J I P  &#124; Talk 20:28, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * At the end of the day, there are lots of other people on the train possibly carrying more valuables than you will be, so everyone is in the same boat (or train, in this case). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 02:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also notice that this is Sweden. Crime is not unheard off, but mostly used in fiction. There is always a risk, of course, but it's not a big one. I've been travelling through Europe by train for 25 years, including bi-weekly commutes from Munich to Italy for two years, and I've never been witness or victim of a theft. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:16, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have travelled by train in Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Poland, the United Kingdom, and Russia, and never been the victim of theft. All those trips have either been day trips or had private cabins however. The only time I have been victim of theft was in a crowded bar here in my home city in Finland, not on a train or any other moving vehicle. I guess I'll just have to relax and not worry so much. The precautions I listed above should be enough. J I P  &#124; Talk 18:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Vehicle problem
We've got an old 1986 Suzuki Samurai/Jimny. When we first start the thing there isn't a problem. However, once we turn it off it refuses to start. If we leave it for a while, about 15 minutes, then it will start again. Turning the key produces nothing at all, no sounds that would indicate a broken starter (that's only 8 months old) or dead battery, but all the electrical comes on. Fortunately it's light and easy to push start or we would have a worse problem. Anybody got any ideas why? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 22:46, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * IIRC, from listening to a lot of Car Talk, this is usually a problem caused by a bad electrical connection in the starter motor or something where heating-induced expansion causes some connection to break; when the car cools down things contract to where the connection gets made again. Then again, I know literally jack shit about cars, so you may want to take this to an actual mechanic rather than listen to me, or indeed any other stranger on the interwebz.  Again, the best advice is don't ask for or take advice from anybody about anything for any reason on the internet, get a live human being to look at it.  -- Jayron  32  00:30, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That's exactly the same theory I came up with. Check the electrical connections around the starter. StuRat (talk) 02:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The thing is the vehicle cost $1200 and I really don't fell like paying $200 - $400 to get it fixed or waiting a couple of weeks until the mechanic has the time. I figured that some answer is good because then at least there is a starting point to look at. Your answer is something I had already wondered about, in that the heat was part of the problem. We changed the starter ourselves so it would make sense that the problem could be located there. Mind you if we get it fixed I'll miss the sight of my 120 lb daughter-in-law pushing the thing so we can jump start it, she can't figure out how to get her foot off the clutch correctly yet. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * My first car was a 1986 Ford EXP which I had to park on the top of a hill wherever I went; if I couldn't find a hill (like a store with a flat parking lot) I just left the thing running while I went in. Oddly enough, no one ever stole it... So I feel your pain. -- Jayron  32  01:46, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you are competent enough to fit your own starter, then I suggest trying what I did many years ago when I had similar problems on my first car. I just dismantled the starter motor (but not the windings), greased everything, put it back together, refitted it, and it worked perfectly for years afterwards.    D b f i r s   12:12, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Could be a fuel issue. I used to have a similar problem with an old lawnmower - it was pull cord start, so not an electrical issue; wouldn't start when hot, but leave it ten minutes and it was no problem to get going. Because the engine temp continues to rise for a short while when you turn it off (since the cooling system is no longer running) the fuel apparently can boil inside the carburettor or fuel lines and create a vapor lock, stopping the flow of fuel. When the engine cools a bit, the fuel liquefies again, and the engine can run. You may be able to insulate the fuel system to help cure it. Apparently there can also be seasonal issues in places where the fuel blend is changed between summer and winter (not an issue where I live, so I'm not familiar with it); this site give a start to more info. --jjron (talk) 14:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * How did you fix your lawnmower? Mine started doing this exact thing yesterday!  Googlemeister (talk) 15:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd think you'd either leave it on until the lawn is finished or let it sit long enough to cool down a bit (while you grab an iced tea). StuRat (talk) 21:44, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Stu's pretty much on the money there. In terms of how I fixed it longer term - I eventually bought a new mower. :) --jjron (talk) 02:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, the problem with that is mine happens to die once it has run for 5-10 minutes (until it gets hot I guess). Googlemeister (talk) 18:33, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Definitely not a fuel issue for the car, judging by the symptoms, but I would have expected to hear a click if the contactor relay was working correctly. Perhaps this should be checked if there is no audible click when the key is turned.    D b f i r s   18:30, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the replies. I doubt that it's a fuel issue as the vehicle can be jump started easily. By the way we get our gasoline delivered in September for the year so there wouldn't be a different blend until then. Given our usual temperatures I suspect that it is always a winter blend. If the contactor relay was the problem would that not be permanent? Or would it be intermittent? I think I'll wait until my son gets back as I really don't want to see his reaction after I tell him I took the starter apart. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 22:12, 20 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Electrical tests: check the main (thick cable) connections from battery +ve to the starter motor and the return via the chassis which is often a problem on older cars that rust. Check with a test light that +12V is sent to the starter relay when the ignition key is turned. Turn on an interior light and watch it as you try to start; it is normal for it to dim slightly when the battery is loaded by the starter motor. Mechanical tests: does the starter motor turn and engage the flywheel? If not, and it is receiving normal voltage, then you probably have a broken starter, or there is a fault in the one you have fitted. Consider the possibility that you took out a perfectly good starter.
 * Silly car anecdote #1: It was a tradition in Poland to pack a hammer and a piece of wire when setting out on a motoring trip. The car will be too intimidated by this to dare to fail. Silly car anecdote #2: A couple brought their car to a workshop because it always started for the wife but never started for the man. The workshop could find nothing wrong with the car but the couple were adamant about the strange fault. The cause was eventually found: the wife had her ignition key on a small keyring while her husband kept a number of keys on a big keyring. The extra weight of the man's keys was enough to prevent the ignition switch working. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:02, 21 June 2011 (UTC)