Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 March 6

= March 6 =

US Shooting team ammo
Dear Wikipedia,

I have 2 boxes of Remington 12 guage shotgun shells. They are 2 3/4, #8 shot. They come in a blue/green box. They are from the US Shooting Team. I got them in the mid 1980's in Colorado Springs. I can't seem to find any information on them anywheres. I'm looking to find more information on the value and the history of them. Any help you could provide would be great. Thanks!!

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.240.145.94 (talk) 02:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I was passing through a major US airport once and saw an Eastern European shooting team picking up their checked luggage at the baggage carousel. There were rifles and shotguns aplenty, along with many cartons labelled "10,000 rounds of X calibre ammunition." The implication is that there were countless boxes of shells such as you have. Another implication is that if that "former Commie satellite" team had included terrorists, they could easily have captured the airport and perhaps the city. Edison (talk) 03:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Your final 15 words apply whether they are Commies, Republicans or Australians, etc. HiLo48 (talk) 05:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Edison, your comment is completely off-topic.Sjö (talk) 08:16, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Edison was merely trying to illuminate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:23, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree. The last part (about terrorists) was OT. The first part wasn't. Clearly the rarity of something has a resonable effect on the value. It doesn't definitively answer the question (amongst other things it's possible the US shooting team had less ammo) but it's relevent enough that it's a useful and normal answer on the RD, particularly when the OP has said 'I'm looking to find more information' and 'any help you could provide would be great' suggesting they would welcome incomplete non definitive answers which nevertheless provide more information about what they're wondering (the value and history of the shells). Nil Einne (talk) 10:29, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * OT? More informative than any other post in the thread as to the commonness of "shooting team " branded ammo. I noted that one Eastern Block team had many tens of thousands of rounds such as the OP described, in a visit to one city. Many cartons, each with 10,000 rounds. This makes me believe that "US Shooting Team" ammo boxes are in no way scarce, and thus not something that has huge value. For the present price of an item check Sotheby's auctions, and if it is not valuable enough for them, check EBay. Relevancy? Having made an informative contribution, I took the liberty of noting the irony of desperate fear that someone in an airport might have a fingernail clipper or box cutter, while foreign nationalists picked up rifles, shotguns, and thousands of rounds of ammo at the baggage pickup, providing them with orders of magnitude more firepower than all the security forces at the airport, or perhaps in the city. Maybe the latter part should have been in small script with a smiley face to satisfy those who are crabby.  :<) I  struck the latter part of my initial post, which seems to have rubbed someone the wrong way for whatever reason. Edison (talk) 00:57, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. Sjö (talk) 10:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Some Google searching shows Winchester has supplied the US shotgun shooting team with ammo since at least 1999. The team thus got free (or cheap) ammo of "competition" grade while the company got useful product exposure. This article indicates that Remington had ties to the US shooting team in the early 1980's: . I found a 1988 article which said "Nobody shoots any U.S. ammo, the quality is so poor," and that all US shooting team members that year used English or West German ammo. The article said lots of left over equipment from the Olympics was being sold as surplus. Edison (talk)

flags and names
Is there a website where I can get a country's flag inside the name of another country like for example Bangladeshi flag inside Qatar's name either in English or Arabic meaning the name Qatar is written in English but the Bangladeshi is inserted inside the name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.58 (talk) 04:57, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems unlikely: why would anybody create such a website? But there are strange things on the web so maybe. --ColinFine (talk) 10:00, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "inside the name"? Do you want the name written in a circle? You can make something like that yourself very easily. The "Word Art" feature in MS Word will do it, as will equivalent features in other word processors. YOu can then put the flag in the middle. I agree with Colin, though, it doesn't sound like something someone would make a website specifically for. --Tango (talk) 22:04, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

usage of plastic bags
I have completely reduced the use of plastic bags and curtailed consumption of paper/electricity and petrol by conscious efforts. However,my attempts to persuade my colleagues to follow has failed. They tell me that an individual cannot make a difference.Where do I go from here? Sumalsn (talk) 05:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Remind them that "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." HiLo48 (talk) 05:45, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't want to hear that the OP discarded them in the trash. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Show them a picture of the Grand Canyon, and remind them that one drop of water started that. "Constant dripping wears away stones" as we say in the UK. Or "many a mickle makes a muckle" in the North of Britain. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ask them if they throw away pennies, or whatever the smallest denomination of your local currency happens to be. If they say, "No, I collect them in a jar and then cash them in", you have an example that is more relevant to their lives than the Grand Canyon or ancient platitudes.  Either way though, if you keep pushing them on it, you might end up with fewer friends and thus fewer friends that you need to worry about.  Dismas |(talk) 10:15, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It might make more sense to seek out those who already conserve, and form a group that leads by example. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * What is "completely reduce"? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:07, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * In the context I took it to mean either "eliminated" or "reduced to the minimum possible". Re the latter: some stores used to (and may still) insist on putting one's purchase into one of their logo'd plastic (or paper) bags "for security reasons", which meant "so our security staff don't think you've just shoplifted it"; some local councils (in the UK) require particular issued or purchased plastic sacks be used for refuse collections. Sumalsn may have had such or other instances of unavoidable use in mind; perhaps he will elucidate. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:42, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The OP seems to be of Indian nationality. As such it is possible that  "completely reduced" is simply one of the numerous phrases of Indian English which seem odd to speakers of UK / US / Down Under... English.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a question : does reducing your Petrol consumption make a difference? If I wanted to play devil's advocate, I could say that the oil companies are extracting oil as fast as they can, and 100% of it is consumed. With cars selling like hotcakes in developing nations (especially China), Does it matter if you burn it or someone else does? APL (talk) 18:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (Erm, the point here being not that we should do whatever the heck we like, but that it's increasingly clear that we're going to burn all of our planet's oil reserves that can realistically be extracted. Whatever horrible consequences that has may be inevitable.  In that case, you may be better off brow-beating your colleagues about things that have a more local effect. Such as proper disposal of used batteries, florescent bulbs, etc. Or other local issues.) APL (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Oil companies do not extract all they can. OPEC has policies for controlling production and the price of oil. Petrol consumption in US affects US pollution more than petrol consumption in China. My petrol consumption affects my disposable income. Yes, that matters. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:57, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Gabbart
Are these craft related to the "gabares", shallow-draught cargo boats used on the River Dordogne and tributaries in France in 18th and 19th centuries (and still used in tourist sailings)?81.132.197.113 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:56, 6 March 2011 (UTC).
 * The article is Gabbert, for those who might be wondering. --ColinFine (talk) 10:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * (Though that redirects to Gabbart, Colin :-) ! 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It does now. It didn't before I moved it. --ColinFine (talk) 23:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The OED (s.v. "Gabbart") says "Etymology: 			 <  French gabarre (now spelt gabare)", so it would appear that the answer is Yes. --ColinFine (talk) 10:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link to the article! It's certainly not a common US English term and helped me understand what to OP was referring to.  Dismas |(talk) 10:17, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is the French Wikipedia article and here is a website about them. Alansplodge (talk) 15:48, 6 March 2011 (UTC)