Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 March 8

= March 8 =

Durability of jeans
Which jeans are likely to be most durable?

I buy and wear jeans at least partly out of force of habit. And I originally developed this habit at least partly because they were durable. (This was a long time before "civilization" developed wacky notions such as brand new ripped-up jeans or a "healthy" market in used jeans.)

Me, I still buy jeans that look new, when I can find them. Yes, worn jeans have a certain charm, but quite aside from the damage to the environment and waste of resources in their manufacture, I want jeans that have their lifespan ahead.

Recently, most black jeans (my favorite color) seem to have been faded to at least some extent. And they seem to wear out quickly. Oh, 99% by area is good enough; but creases develop and intensify in the, ahem, most vital area under the crotch, and pretty soon these threaten to have me arrested for indecent exposure. Of course there are solutions -- see for example www.ehow.com/how_6471274_patch-holes-crotch-jeans.html (blacklisted domain name) -- but I'm lazy, and so into the trash they go.

I don't know how credible the guide to durability http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Judge-Jean-Durability-and-Quality-Before-You-Buy&id=4295178 (blacklisted domain name) is, but it somehow sounds convincing. Trouble is, it refers to terms such as "ringspun" and "slub" that it says are explained on the web -- but that when googled bring up lots of trade adverts.

Fashion be damned, does anyone know of a guide to durability that is intelligible to people who don't happen to be in the rag trade?

Or even -- sacriligious notion coming up! -- is there any alternative to jeans that are as durable in reality as jeans are in myth?

(And lastly, for comic relief, an apparently serious "durability test" lasting just 20 days. No, not months, days.) -- Hoary (talk) 03:28, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm quite happy with my Carhartt pants which are made of denim, so I guess you could call them "jeans". Dismas |(talk) 03:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * How about Samurai Jeans or Ironheart? Their jeans are made of 21oz denim. But I think the denim is heavy and hard, and the jeans are uncomfortable. If I remember correctly, most jeans are made of 12 to 14oz denim. Oda Mari (talk) 06:13, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you both! I hadn't heard of Carhartt; I'll investigate. Mari, the pricing of those Japanese companies is just too ridiculous. (the star, at 63,000 yen.) I do like the only label I saw, though: "ESSENTIAL OF U.S.A. CLOTHING". -- Hoary (talk) 12:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Make sure you like the color, because they'll last the rest of your life. --Sean 14:52, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I also enjoy squeezing the last penny of value out of things I've bought. In my long experience of wearing jeans, they wear out first between the legs, and then eventually the front of the thigh rips open too. Although often the zip breaks, making them unusable despite still having a lot of wear left in them. There are three or four things you can do regarding durability. 1) if you have a choice and all other things being equal, choose the heavier weight denim. The jeans will feel heavier than jeans with thin denim, although starch is often used by manufacturers to make the fasbric feel thicker than it actually is. 2) A loose baggy fit makes the jeans last longer. They wear out between the legs less. They are not under tension so worn fabric is less likely to rip open, and the same areas of fabric do not keep rubbing against each other and wear out. The zip is not being pulled apart all the time so is less likely to break. 3) Buy button-flys rather than a zip, if available. 4) Most importantly, buy cheap jeans. Twenty pairs of cheap jeans at £2 each will last many times longer than one brand-name pair at £40. This may be ruled out on environmental or anti-sweatshop grounds. 5) When washing, turn the jeans inside-out so that the colour does not fade so much. Unless you like faded jeans. 92.15.0.66 (talk) 12:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Two quid a pair? 92.15.0.66, are you perhaps on a time-warp from 1961? (Are you typing on one of these?) The ones I'm wearing now cost me 15 quid or so. (Incidentally, xe.com tells me that 63,000 yen is 472 quid.) No really, I'm interested. And your other ideas are very interesting, and plausible. Yes, I'll buy looser jeans next time. -- Hoary (talk) 12:52, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You can sometimes find jeans for £2 in discount shops in cheaper areas. I've got several pairs. 92.15.0.66 (talk) 15:54, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I also only buy new-looking jeans. I have trouble accepting the pre-worn concept. I am confident that they will get worn out in due order. I accept that as part of the life-cycle of the product, and I am in no rush to circumvent or obviate several wash cycles. Bus stop (talk) 16:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Re fading: one can buy special detergents designed for blacks/colours at major supermarkets, which contain less bleach (and may have other differences). I try to use them for black items and special T-shirts I don't want to fade. Whether you can use them, Hoary, depends on your laundery arrangements, I guess. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 16:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Some thoughts:


 * 1) Pre-faded jeans do have one advantage, that you don't get color transfer onto other clothes the first few times you wash them (although this can actually be a plus if you wash them with old jeans of the same color, and hence refresh their color a bit).


 * 2) Jean makers often seem to make the mistake of thinking that more rigidity will make them last longer, when it's often more flexible materials that last longer. I particularly notice that right next to the seams, where the fabric goes from thick to thin, is where they wear out first.  They need a system similar to that used on electrical power cord plugs, where the thickness is gradually reduced, to avoid the concentration of forces where thickness is quickly reduced.


 * 3) Another spot where they can wear out is a location where they rub against something. This happens for me on the cuffs at the bottom, where they rub against my shoes as I walk.  This can also happen in the thighs, especially if you are a bit overweight, or in the seat, if you move around a lot while seated.  Patches can help here, if you don't mind the look.


 * 4) Don't wear jeans inside, but wear something cheaper, like jogging pants, so they will take the wear instead.


 * 5) Implement a hierarchy, where the newest jeans are suitable for going out (to casual places, obviously), next they are OK for activities like gardening, then finally maybe only good for wearing when painting or using chemicals which might destroy good clothes.


 * 6) Washing less often, without bleach, will also help them to last longer.


 * 7) As for longer lasting pants, I suspect that a good pair of leather pants would last longer. However, they also cost more, so they might be more expensive, overall. StuRat (talk) 19:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The stiffness of some new jeans is due the starch in them, put there to make the denim seem more heavyweight. After washing it will disapear and the jeans will be flexible. 92.24.191.116 (talk) 00:02, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That's not the only cause. Thick denim and reinforced seams can also make them rather stiff. StuRat (talk) 04:21, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding the cheapest jeans, I forgot to add that you can buy very cheap jeans at Tesco supermarket UK. The cheapest ones cost three or four pounds each. The practice of some motorcyclists used to be to put worn out jeans on over new jeans, so that they wore layers of jeans with the most threadbare on the outside, but I don't think people do that any more. 92.15.20.212 (talk) 21:19, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That sure sounds like it would be uncomfortable, unless the outside pair was larger, to prevent the inside pair from bunching up. Another concern is that fabric twice as thick might not breathe as well, allowing moisture to build up inside.  This might also be a concern with some of the extra thick jeans mentioned previously. StuRat (talk) 04:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Tesco! The Uniqlo of Britain. Somehow Japanese clothes don't fit me (or anyway my lower half), which is why I don't shop at Uniqlo. The next time I'm at Britain perhaps I'll stop by a branch of that evil monopolist Tesco. &para; Normally I get my clothes online: I know that for one oligopolist, inseam X and waist Y will fit, and this saves time over real-world clothes-shopping. (For me, shopping is like.....). But recently they've only had (i) the "prewashed" stuff, which I've come to suspect is already half worn out when "new", and (ii) "colored" stuff, which somehow turns brown in the wash. I've just got my hands on two pairs from a rival online oligopolist, and these seem good in that (i) they're genuinely black (you have to look at them to realize that they're jeans; their jeanness doesn't stand out), and (ii) they're cheap (or what I'd considered cheap before being reacquainted with Tesco). I'll see what happens with them. -- Hoary (talk) 14:02, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Covered wagon v.s. Conestoga wagon
What's the difference between Covered wagon & Conestoga wagon? I read the articles, but got confused. -- Merry Rabbit 08:58, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A Conestoga wagon, as the article notes, is a particular type of covered wagon; "covered wagon" is a generic term. Think of "Dodge Ram crew-cab" versus "pickup truck." --- OtherDave (talk) 09:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Question about pregnancy removed
The Wikipedia reference desk is not an appropriate venue to discuss specific medical diagnosis, or to obtain recommendations for the treatment of medical conditions. Please discuss this with your doctor. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 17:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Use of Poppadoms with indian foods...
Im just starting to try some quasi-Indian foods (we all know that lots of "international" foods aren't made the way they are in their country of origin, but flavoured so the local population will enjoy the taste). Anyway, i want to try Poppadoms, and even looked at the article to see what particular things they would work with, but the article doesn't seem clear, and seems to suggest that maybe they can be used with any Indian food. I have things such as Bombay potatoes, pindi chana ("chick peas curry"), madras lentils, dal palak, and spinach with cottage cheese and sauce.

Do Poppadoms taste best with any particular dish, or are they rather versatile? what would you suggest is best? Thanks!

137.81.116.186 (talk) 19:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Although some poppadoms are strongly flavoured most are fairly neutral tasting as so go with most things, just beware snappage, I prefer lime pickle or any of those indian pickles, damn i'm hungry now.  meltBanana  21:11, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Here in the UK poppadoms are commonly served as pre-starter with Lime pickle, Onion salad, Mango chutney and something else that's red-coloured that I can't remember the name of right now. ny156uk (talk) 21:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Usually raita in my experience (not red-coloured though). Poppadums are like a giant unflavoured thinner version of tortilla chips really - they go with whatever you want to dip them into.  And lager.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:33, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, now the only thing im worried about is the "snappage" MeltBanana talks about... perhaps ill just spoon some of whatever i have onto the poppadom..... :P 137.81.46.231 (talk) 22:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Just eat like crisps (chips in the US)! Or snap and dip into whatever. They really are yummy!--TammyMoet (talk) 08:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * We say "chips" for the same reason we say "math" instead of "maths": they're hard to say. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

nice job taking us americans down a notch bugs! Just kidding,,,, yeah i know what crisps are hehe..... ANYWAY! I got my poppadums today and youre supposed to microwave them..... it started as a little thin wafer shape and at the end it was bowl shaped.... i feel like im eating a science experiment, but it tastes amazing! 137.81.116.186 (talk) 00:55, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

rhino poaching
im trying to find the population of rhinos that are left in south africa after the poaching. per province. specifically the white- and blackrhino. im doing a school task on it and all im getting on googel is the rate of poaching. please help!Shadowmf (talk) 20:57, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I haven't found the data you're seeking, but the Rhino Resource Center website looks promising. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:32, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * One problem with rhino poaching is finding a big enough pan. PhGustaf (talk) 01:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Easy, just hire a rhino poacher. They've got all the equipment, they're professionals. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  10:19, 11 March 2011 (UTC)