Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 November 2

= November 2 =

adding information on a persons history
TO WHO IT MAY CONCERNE,

HOW DO I GO ABOUT GIVING YOU INFORMATION TO BE ADDED ON A PARTICULAR PERSON THAT IS ON WIKIPEDIA REGARDIND A FAMOS MUSICIANS FAMILY TREE.

THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP.

ELLEN MULE' — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ellenkimby21 (talk • contribs) 02:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Before information can be added to a Wikipedia article, it needs to have been published elsewhere first in a reliable source. That is because, in order to be trustworthy, everything in Wikipedia needs to be verifiable.  If the information you wish to add has been published in a book, magazine, journal, website, etc. and said source is reasonably accessible, then you may add it to an article, so long as you properly cite the source it came from.  If you are adding this information solely from your own personal knowledge, or your own original research, and the information is not accessible elsewhere, Wikipedia cannot accept it.  If you are having trouble with the technical aspects of adding the information, you can provide the sources on the article's talk page (click the "discussion" tab when viewing the article) so that someone with more experience may help.  -- Jayron  32  03:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Red Star Belgrade tickets
Can someone please advise me on how to buy advance tickets for the home matches of Red Star Belgrade? The English version of their website is here but I don't see any information there on how to buy tickets (the 'Shop' section is just for merchandise). Thank you, --Viennese Waltz 08:43, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe the embassy can advise you?
 * They are at: Embassy of Serbia and Montenegro in Austria, Address: Rennweg 3, A-1030 Wien, Phone: +43 1 713 25 95, 712 12 05. That is close to the Lower Belvedere, if you contact them in person.  --Incognito.ergo.possum (talk) 10:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Red Star Belgrade's website has email contact details and the phone number to buy tickets (probably they have an English or German speaker there) or you could email Belgrade tourist information. Also check out the TripAdvisor forums, e.g.. I gather that attendances aren't high, unless it's a local derby against Partizan, so it should be easy to get a ticket.  --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Football loving friend tells me this is a site from which they purchase tickets for Crvena Zvezda (when they are playing on Marakana). The news item about the upcoming game versus OFK Beograd on 05.11.2011. say that the ticket selling will only start tomorrow. --91.150.127.105 (talk) 14:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

How did this seller make a profit?
I recently purchased NBA 2k12 online from a site called "eCrater". It didn't look extremely reputable, but it was selling a brand new game for $40, free shipping, when all the other major online retailers were selling it for $60. I was a bit hesitant to buy from this source at first, but seeing as it had by far the best price on the net that I could find, and that the seller accepted Google Checkout and PayPal, I felt it was a safe enough purchase. Abysmally slow shipping aside, I'm overall very happy with my purchase; the item was exactly as described, and I saved a cool $20. I'm confused as to how this seller is making any profit, though. The seller included an invoice with the game, and the invoice stated that the seller had purchased the game from walmart.com and had it shipped directly to me: for $59.97! How is the seller making money by charging my card $40 and buying the game for $60, then having it shipped to me? Is something fishy going on? If it helps, the return address for the shipper was Canadian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtzen (talk • contribs) 13:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It would be interesting to see whether that is what they usually do. There could be many reasons: maybe they're new on the market and are trying to get customers through low prices? Or, maybe they usually buy wholesale and had JUST ran out of stock and needed to keep their promise (hence the slow delivery)? --Ouro (blah blah) 14:10, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Those are both definitely possibilities. I think eCrater is a startup online marketplace: I bought the game from a third party seller through their website. I'm still mystified as to why the individual seller would charge me $40 and then buy it online from Walmart at $60, then have it shipped to me. If this site is anything like Amazon or eBay marketplace, why would this third party seller do this? Mtzen (talk) 14:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * This sounds like a loss leader special to me. Take one or two products, sell them for less than list and hope they entice you to buy something else (at full price) or, at a minimum, to come back and shop them again for something else (again, at full price). Enjoy your game and the money you saved! -- McDoob  AU  93  14:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I can't tell if this is a 'proper' shop or not. If not, it's not always about making a profit in reselling, but a profit versus the intrinsic value of the stock (in this case a small lump of plastic and metal). If someone bought me a game I didn't like, or was incompatible for my games machine, for $60 and gave it to me with the receipt, but the shop wouldn't refund/exchange it, I'd probably be happy to get $40 less shipping for it as it's worth nothing to me, except as a paperweight. --Dweller (talk) 14:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I expect that the seller had some other, cheaper source that fell through (hence the delay), then went to Walmart in order to meet its obligation to you. John M Baker (talk) 15:46, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Why would the seller send you the invoice from Walmart.com? My suspicion is the invoice was spoofed; the seller didn't pay retail for a game they were selling you at a discount: They paid wholesale and bought the game from the game distributor like every other store does; so maybe they pay the wholesaler like $20 bucks for the game; and sell it to you for $40, making a profit.  Then they include a fake invoice which makes it look like they sold it to you for a loss, and you're thinking "Awesome!  I'm getting a real deal on this game.  Haha!" That may make it more likely for you to come back and shop... -- Jayron  32  16:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I bet they bought a total of one unit from Walmart, and copied/altered the receipt for each customer, so they feel like they are getting a great deal.  Is there a serial number listed on the Walmart receipt ?  Does it match the serial number on the box ?  Your game may even be pirated. StuRat (talk) 16:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * What would be the point to such a maneuver? Individual sellers on a site like this aren't trying for any sort of brand recognition. No, almost certainly this item really was direct shipped from Walmart. The only question is why. Probably it was a common form of credit card fraud as I've outlined below, but there could be innocent reasons for it too.  Perhaps the seller had Walmart store-credit that he needed to turn into cash. Or perhaps he oversold his stock and had to fill orders at a loss from Walmart. APL (talk) 01:34, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't think it was a person they bought from, but rather a retail online store. Reading the post again, it's not really clear which it was, but I got my impression from the phrase "make a profit", which to me implies a retailer, not an individual. StuRat (talk) 01:46, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * eCrater seems to be a site where any individual can set up a "store front". Like ebay, but without the auctions, only the "stores". APL (talk) 01:52, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I suspect credit card fraud.
 * Imagine that you've got a stolen credit card number, how do you get money out of it? You can't simply have items shipped to your house or the police will know your address. So here's what you do.
 * You advertise some product. Say, a $1000 camera, for a phenomenal price : $750.
 * Joe Consumer sees the great deal you're offering, and sends you $750.
 * You go to Cameras-R-Us.com and use the stolen credit card to buy the $1000 camera, and ship it directly to Joe Consumer.
 * You now have $750 that you received through entirely legitimate channels.
 * If the police investigate the stolen credit card, they'll go to Joe Consumer's house, not yours.
 * This sort of thing was once relatively common on eBay. (And it may still be, I don't know.) Does eCrater work in a similar way?
 * Keep your records for this transaction. The police may contact you wanting to know why a game bought with a stolen credit card was shipped to your house. APL (talk) 17:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not going to work, though, is it. When the police show up at Joe's house, he'll simply tell them where he sent the money to.  Before long, they'll be knocking at your door. --Viennese Waltz 08:48, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I will definitely take what you have said into consideration. I took a look at the invoice and I don't think it's forged; I could upload a picture if you'd like. I also doubt that the game is pirated. I'm a bit worried that it is credit card fraud, but I don't know for sure yet. I will make sure I have all records in order and will keep you all posted if anything happens. Mtzen (talk) 02:24, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The old joke is "You're losing $20 on each transaction!" "Yeah, but I'll make it up in volume." Edison (talk) 04:49, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * An early personal computer manufacturer did just that: each month's expenses were paid off with the next month's sales. Since the market was growing explosively, this worked just fine -- until one month when sales didn't grow as fast as usual.  The next month, the company went out of business. --Carnildo (talk) 00:00, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My credit card company gave me a $50 gift card to Best Buy. I purchased a game for $50, then sold it for $40.  This person could have had a non-refundable walmart gift card, and a need for quick cash.  Of all the things you could buy at walmart, I think media and electronics would be the ones you could resell with the highest demand and the lowest markdown.  Other stuff like clothes or jewelry would have much more significant skepticism or markdowns from the retail price.  24.38.31.81 (talk) 18:36, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Damage total?
Can someone find a damage total for Hurricane Cindy, July 1959 (preferably from a .gov source)? If you can, post the link here :) Thanks! HurricaneFan25  &#124;  talk  17:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Clothing style name
Is there a name for a woman's top with a hole through which cleavage is visible? (See, , and for examples.) Thanks. --Kramer Associates (talk) 22:06, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * There are names for the hole: boob window and cleavage window. There's even a sweater with two boob windows. I guess that would be a fashion boo(b)-boo(b). Clarityfiend (talk) 01:16, 3 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If you'd like the "official" name, by which dressmakers and designers know this feature, it's a keyhole neckline. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Highway lane uses
Ok, so on divided highways in the United States with two lanes each direction, the right hand lane is used for normal driving and slower traffic and the left hand lane for faster, passing traffic. When the lanes in each direction are upped to three or more, what happens to the "primary use" of each of the lanes? Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 22:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * In reality, the "drive on the right, pass on the left" rule only works when there's not a lot of traffic. On busy highways, you often wind up driving in whatever lane is available. Often one finds himself driving in the left lane to avoid a line of big trucks going 45 MPH only to be tailgated by a maniac who races up to your behind at 80 MPH. They usually only build 6-lane highways if there is too much traffic for 4 lanes, so any 6-lane highway probably has too much traffic for much of the day to stick to the right lane except to pass. Ideally, the right lane would be for regular driving, the center lane for passing vehicles in the right lane and the left lane for passing people in the center lane who aren't going fast enough for you. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Add to that, the HOV lane which is often found in major cities. Dismas |(talk) 23:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's how I use them with 3 lanes or more in each direction: I leave the right lane clear for merging and exiting, and leave the left lane clear for passing. The rest of the lanes I use for regular driving, and try to go further to the left the faster I am going relative to the other traffic.  Note that some highways split into "express lanes" and "local lanes".  (Another reason for this is so that bridge spans on overpasses can be shorter, with columns between the two.)


 * I've often thought it would be nice to formalize this, and have the right lane with a 55-65 MPH speed limit, the next lane at 60-70, the next at 65-75, etc. Thus, with maybe 10 lanes, we could get up to a reasonable speed. :-) StuRat (talk) 01:18, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * As a tourist in Germany I was astonished at how well the drivers stuck to the rule of never passing on the right. Because of this, and with no maximum speed limit, On roads with any amount of traffic the sort of tiered speed you describe seemed to happen naturally. Amazing. American drivers could never be so disciplined without stationing a cop every quarter mile. APL (talk) 01:37, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It seems like you need another ingredient to make the voluntary system work, you can't have idiots creeping along at 45 in the fast lane. StuRat (talk) 01:42, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree with StuRat in terms of how I treat the lanes: For three or more travel lanes in the same direction, I stick to the middle lane(s) for long-distance travel; the left is strictly for passing and I only move to the rightmost lane to prepare to exit. If there are only two lanes, I will generally travel in the right lane, but will move to the left lane when approaching an exit or entrance to give oncoming cars the space to get on the road.  If the road has only two travel lanes and lots of frequent exits/entrances I will end up traveling in the left lane to avoid frequent lane changes.  -- Jayron  32  02:56, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * In practice, using three lanes in that way means there is an impenetrable wall of traffic in the middle lane, densely packed with long-distance drivers blissfully unaware of the needs of drivers to either side, prone to bunching up and sudden stops (causing "phantom traffic jams" and accidents) if anything should slightly delay a vehicle. People who move out to pass get trapped in the left lane; drivers in the right lane who wish to make room for merging traffic have nowhere to go.  It's possibly one of the worst ways to use a highway.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:49, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, no. Your mischaracterization of my post results in you drawing false conclusions of my driving practices.  In heavy traffic, I will modify my driving to match the conditions.  But if I've got half a mile on all sides between me and any other car, I stay in the middle lane.  -- Jayron  32  03:55, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you folks have any idea how hard this topic is to grok for us that live in countries that drive on the left. On the fly mentally editing every mention of "right" to "left" and "left" to "right" is really hard! Roger (talk) 08:45, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I had to concentrate hard to produce a mental mirror-image. The answers all apply equally to those of us who follow the older convention, except that driving in the middle lane, though sometimes seen in the UK, is generally considered not the best practice. It becomes a problem only when the driver totally ignores faster traffic approaching from behind.  D b f i r s   10:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Gaa, my pet hate. Middle lane dozers, with their car in 5th and brain in neutral.  Show some lane discipline and consideration for other users of the highway, by keeping to the inside lane unless passing slower traffic.  Rule 264 of the UK's Highway Code say you "...should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear."  I'm sure other jurisdictions have similar wording (switching left for right if appropriate).  Astronaut (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed, although I think I hate impatient speedhounds more. If a load of lorries are going 55 in the left-hand lane, I'm going 60 to overtake them in the middle-lane because the cars in front are going 60 and I don't want to get us dangerously bunched, and cars on the right cannot go fast enough to quickly overtake me, but are also not willing to allow me in front of them, it is not okay to whizz impatiently up to my bumper, tailgate me with impatient wiggly manouvers, then rush to the left hand lane in the little gap between lorries, undertake me, and cut straight in front of me (in the nice safe gap I'd left) so that I have to brake hard. Thankfully, you then cut in front of the bastards to my right and very slowly got ahead, so I didn't have to worry about you anymore. Also, if you try very hard not to let me into your lane to the right of me, even though you can see that someone or someones are merging slowly into my lane just ahead on a busy road, I will occasionally have to rudely nose gradually in front you. Beep all you like: I don't want to crash, and you could have either slowed down to let me in, or moved right. Middle lane hogs are annoying, but they don't raise my blood pressure like some! 86.163.1.168 (talk) 23:40, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * For the sake of generic understanding, it might make more sense to refer to the "express" lane (the one nearest the barrier between the two directions of the traffic) and the "local" lane (the one typically nearest the exit and entrance ramps). Then there are one or more "middle" lanes, in either scenario. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I suggest "fast lane" and "slow lane", since "express lanes" mean those without access to exits and "local lanes" mean those that do have access to the exits. It gets even uglier when you have the occasional exit from or entrance directly into the fast lane, preferably at a 45 degree angle with no room to accelerate before entering the expressway, my personal fave. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:34, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, I miss Hartford, Connecticut sometimes... Good ol' I-84. -- Jayron  32  04:40, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, Hartford needs to support the local economy by making everyone go out and buy life insurance, and nothing accomplishes that like a good old FUBAR expressway. But, of course, they do need to be able to pry their white knuckles off the steering wheel to sign the check. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Recently, we've taken the further step of turning off the majority of traffic lights. It's fun to see which drivers remember what to do when the traffic lights are out. (Pro Tip : You treat every intersection like a four-way stop, you do not sail through at top speed.) APL (talk) 07:52, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Here in Detroit, when we were hit by the East Coast power failure a few years back, we found better ways than that to handle no lights at an intersection. For intersections where one road is a major street and the other is a small drive, we treated it as if there were yield signs on the small drives, meaning those on the drive just had to wait for an opening.  Also, where the roads were equal in size, we almost treated it like a 4-way stop, except that cars didn't go through the intersection one at time, but more like a half dozen at a time.  This was a lot more efficient. StuRat (talk) 01:49, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * This parody from a website called the Middle Lane Owners Club pokes fun at drivers who won't pull over to let faster traffic past (apologies to American folk for the British terninology, but you'll get the gist of it). Alansplodge (talk) 12:29, 4 November 2011 (UTC)