Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 November 24

= November 24 =

Mustard Oil
Is Mustard Oil considered "good oil" (meaning less saturated fat) or "bad oil" (meaning more saturated oil) and how in each case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.105.195 (talk) 01:24, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The wikipedia article titled Mustard oil has a breakdown of the different types of fatty acid which makes it up. -- Jayron  32  01:27, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You would also need to know the ratios of the various fats of other oils, and have a concept of what ratios constitute 'good' and 'bad', to identify where on the spectrum mustard oil lies. Some information in this table - Comparison of cooking fats, and there are a range of foodstuffs, including oils, linked to from this page and which'll tend to give you values for each of the fats. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect School colors on schedule page
When I view the Pepperdine Waves basketball page for this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011-12_Pepperdine_Waves_men%27s_basketball_team), I notice the colors on the roster are grey and white. When I check into the roster box, I see that it says teamcolors=y. When I look at the Pepperdine Waves page, I see the colors are blue and orange. So my question is why aren't the team colors showing up correctly on the school page? Every other WCC school doesn't have this problem. I can't find anything that's listed different on the school or the schedule page. Is there something that needs to be adjusted, will it not add the colors for a few days, or is there something else I'm missing? Bigddan11 (talk) 03:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look as though anyone regularly serving as a virtual librarian on this Reference Desk is able to answer (or even understand) your query. These Reference Desks are really intended for factual queries about the world in general. Yours is more about a technical problem or anomaly with Wikipedia itself. You are more likely to get an answer - or corrective action - through asking at the Help Desk (which is about how to use and edit Wikipedia) or on the Technical Section of the Village Pump (which is for discussing aspects of how the site works). Both of those, by the way, are linked from Wikipedia's front page in the same area as the link to the Reference Desks. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.12 (talk) 23:30, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You never know who might be passing...
 * That page uses Template:CBB roster/Header - if "teamcolors" is set to "y", it will use the colours listed on two other pages, corresponding to the "team" parameter which, in this case, is "Pepperdine Waves". The two pages listing the colours are Template:CollegePrimaryHex and Template:CollegeSecondaryHex. However, there was no entry for Pepperdine Waves.
 * I have added entries . I could not find any information with exact colour codes, so I used standard Web colors for blue and orange.
 * Now, 2011-12 Pepperdine Waves men's basketball team is displaying an orange and blue roster.
 * Of course, anyone can edit the pages, if the colours are not correct.
 * (And the first response was quite true, too; you'd be better asking this type of question over on WP:HD, in future. I just happened to see it.)  Chzz  ► 06:27, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Understanding river stages
So, I live in the U.S. Southeast. On the local News program, they always show a graphic on the river stages. As an amateur kayak-er, I am interested in this info...but am unsure how to interpret it. For instance, the graph might show the following numbers: "Yazoo river 18 feet /  +1.2 feet." OR "Mississippi river 20 feet / -.07 feet."

Now I am pretty sure the second number is the rise/fall in the water level, but what about the first number? Is the first number the level above sea level? The level of discharge? The level below flood stage? I'm embarrassed to ask other kayak-ers about this, so any help would be appreciated. Quinn &#10025; STARRY NIGHT 04:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I would think that's just the depth of the river, at a given checkpoint. Obviously the depth will vary over it's length, as it will tend to be narrow and deep in some places (possible whitewater) and wide and shallow in others (possible portages). StuRat (talk) 05:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * USGS has an explanation for stream stages. It's basically the height of the water surface above an arbitrary reference elevation (though it's usually the mean sea level). Geology.com also has explanations for different hydrographs.


 * There's an example for Devils Lake, North Dakota here. You can see the reference elevation is 1400 ft asl. The current water surface elevation is 1453.31 ft asl, thus the stage is 53.31 ft.


 * The + and - values are more mysterious though. Can you show an example graph? I think that's the difference between the last gauge measurement. i.e. "Yazoo river 18 feet / +1.2 feet" might mean Yazoo river currently has the stage of 18 ft, rising 1.2 ft from last measurement.--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   05:55, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

What use is a baby?
Faraday was asked in the 1830's "What is the point of your work with Electricity? He replied "What use is a baby?" Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:09, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * And what is your question? Faraday is asking a rhetorical question. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:20, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Faraday's point — which I think is rather obvious — was that electricity was in its infancy and had huge amounts of future potential. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:35, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Also if you run out of fuses babies are somewhat conductive Fifelfoo (talk) 12:38, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragoust. See A Modest Proposal. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:57, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * And you just know that someone will have to have WP:BEANS in there somewhere... Lemon_martini —Preceding undated comment added 18:46, 26 November 2011 (UTC).
 * See also Child labor, Child abduction, Baby farming, International adoption, Crack Baby Athletic Association, etc. --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this yet another question about the purpose of life? (Hmm, I always seem to link to that via the redirect. Perhaps the page should be moved from "meaning" to "purpose", since people seem more concerned about purpose. Meaning of life agrees.) Card Zero  (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Too many of them is certainly a bad thing. Hence why I'm a conscientious objector to baby-making.--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:30, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd always thought a conscientious objector to baby-making would be one who was concerned about overpopulation.--WaltCip (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a grave concern of mine.--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   03:04, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Faraday answered a question with another, inscrutable question. Given the date, I think it unlikely that Faraday could have anticipated even a fraction of the "huge amounts of future potential (a pun Mr98 ? I am not a pun resistor and I know you have the capacity to make them to induce hilarity.)" electricity had. Reasons: he was a theoretical physicist not an engineer, his induction experiments had led only to lab demonstrations and not to a useful machine at that time, the law
 * $$\nabla \times \mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial \mathbf{B}} {\partial t}$$

named after Faraday would not yet have been brought into a unified electromagnetic theory by Maxwell who was only 4 years old in 1835, and Faraday was working with electric power sources of only low voltage and power i.e. chemical cells and the Faraday disc. Without foreknowledge of forceful electric machines, electric lighting (Edison 1879) or radio, what "baby" could Faraday have been thinking of? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps his meaning was that it is as pointless to ask why a scientist studies nature as it is to ask why humans reproduce. It is their nature to do so. --Saddhiyama (talk) 11:25, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That interpretation sounds like the response was an impatient put-down to the questioner. You may be right. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Faraday's lack of engineering knowledge certainly would not have kept him from thinking that electricity was potentially a very useful thing. One need not even anticipate a fraction of the whole thing to realize that there may be a whole thing out there, somewhere. I cannot anticipate even a fraction of what nanotechnology is going to accomplish, but it is clear that it has the potential to be a Big Deal in the next 100 years. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:56, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

program,armed forces radio,1967,Christmas in Milwuakie
As a young soldier in Vietnam I listened to this program.Two young ladies presented it.Please congratulate them in retrospect. Did they continue with careers in radio? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.162.29.159 (talk) 13:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * "Christmas in Milwaukee" was apparently put together by the Rho Tau Beta broadcasting fraternity at Marquette University in 1967. The Milwaukee Journal (January 10, 1968) has this article about the broadcast: "Recording by MU Touches Hearts of GI's".  I was not able to locate the names of the presenters, but someone else here may have better luck.  It doesn't look like Rho Tau Beta is still active, but presumably there is a student society under some new name which is heir to their activities and – possibly – records.  The University's archives have a file on Rho Tau Beta as well, but I don't know whether that would be useful or not.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:28, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Crown prosecution service in UK extradition cases
Hi,

Why did the UK Crown prosecution service instruct the barrister for a Swedish prosecution authority in the High Court Assange extradition proceedings (related to an alleged crime which AFAIK was never prosecuted in the UK)?

Thanks. Apokrif (talk) 17:33, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's just the name of the case that's misleading; really, the respondent is the CPS because the case is whether or not the CPS should extradite him to Sweden. That's how I see it anyway. It is certainly common for the case names to be misleading in some fashion, not sure about the specifics of this case. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:29, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The extradition proceeding was not a determination of guilt or innocence. The Swedish prosecution service sought to present their case for extradition of Mr. A. in a British court. In this case the UK prosecution service was not itself a party since there was no crime in the UK, but it was qualified to direct the presentation of the Sweden's case to the court. N.B. Wikipedia is not qualified to advise in legal matters such as extraditions where proceedings are mainly based on precedent. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 20:33, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how this constitutes advice. You indented that as a reply to me, I wonder whether you clarify if there is any disagreement. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:43, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree with your statement "the respondent is the CPS because the case is whether or not the CPS should extradite him to Sweden". The CPS in this case is just a servant of the court and has no opinion to be heard. My nota bene is meant to be a disclaimer that says no one here can or should try to offer guidance on this legal matter (the indent is not significant because that just restates the desk guidance heading). Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to an appropriate professional. I hope that clarifies what I posted. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:00, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The party to this case is "The judicial authority in Sweden", not the Crown pro-se. The CPS acts because it is mandated to do so by the Extradition Act 2003. The act requires that it show the alleged acts would constitute offences in England and Wales, the CPS are obviously the qualified people to do so.  What is unusual is that the CPS doesn't have client in the same way it usually does (the crown) but acts statutorily (see this Times article).  A significant effect of that is that the normal test for prosecutions, whether the public interest is served, is not a factor it can consider (the Times writer is essentially saying it's running on autopilot).  Another issue is that the UK bears the cost of extraditing someone to another country (at least another European country); this has led to some countries seeking to extradite their nationals from the UK for penny-ante issues (see this Economist article), things the CPS would likely not consider a cost-effective use of public money if they had the choice. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 21:16, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Dutch pastry
I recall, some years ago, having a Dutch pastry at this time of year (St Nicholas' eve). It was like a sausage roll, but with marzipan instead of sausage-meat, so sweet, and served hot any idea what it was? Its not in Category:Dutch confectionery nor Category:Dutch cuisine. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:35, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe something like the Gevuld Speculaas I'm eating right now (here's the picture from the nl:Speculaas article). Didn't know it was supposed to be eaten warm.  Astronaut (talk) 18:42, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but no, that's not it (though it looks delicious). What I mean looks like this, only longer. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean like a cannoli but eaten warm? Cannoli are an Italian desert, traditionally, but perhaps there is a similar Dutch desert... -- Jayron  32  20:09, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The thing in the picture doesn't look like a cannoli. It looks more like a sort of pasty or pierogi. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:50, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really. Pasties are turnovers (halfmoon or triangle shaped, and the size of a hand).  Pierogis are smaller and roughly similar to ravioli or potstickers.  The OP linked a cylindrical tube filled with meat, open at both ends.  They also indicated that the desert they sought was a similar tube filled with a sweet substance like marzipan.  A pastry tube filled with such cream is a cannoli in Italian.  A similar french pastry may be an eclair though the tube is of a very different pastry than a cannoli is.  Neither of this is like a pasty; if someone told a desert looked like a sweet pasty I would send them to Turnover (food) and if they said it was a desert shaped like a pierogi I'm not sure what I would have mentioned.  But a cannoli is the same shape as the food they showed.  -- Jayron  32  00:59, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The image from Andy looks nothing like a pieróg (singular of pierogi), and if it's supposed to be even longer it would be something entirely different. More of a cheburek (rather the Ukrainian variant), but these don't come sweet, they're only savoury, but it's still way off. --Ouro (blah blah) 09:19, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You Phillistines! Do you know nothing of huate cuisine? The linked picture is of a British Sausage roll - surely one of the world's great delicacies. Alansplodge (talk) 12:30, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * No, we only know of haute cuisine. 194.100.223.164 (talk) 11:45, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My comparison was not so much the actual exact look but a reference to the type of ingredients used, namely a shortcrust pastry with filling, which creates a soft crust, as opposed to the cannoli, which applies a dry pastry that hardens into a crunchy shell when baked. The comparison to the eclair is probably more apt. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:50, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh. Okay then. But it seems that Alansplodge had solved the picture bit. And as for pierogi, the cooked (soft) version is, how shall i put this, default. you can get baked ones, but they're obviously made with different dough, are larger, but everything else (general form and idea behind this wonderful, tasty delicacy (nods at Alansplodge) ) remains unchanged. --Ouro (blah blah) 16:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Banket would be my guess. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 03:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I asked a Dutch colleague whether my Gevuld Speculaas should be eaten warm. He said no, but then described something similar called Speculaas Staaf as being "filled with almond paste, shaped like a sausage and usually eaten warm".  Astronaut (talk) 10:35, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is a recipe. Alansplodge (talk) 12:33, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, .200, that's the one - there's a picture at, which also calls them "Banketstaaf". Google Images finds lots more pictures under the latter name. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:21, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Vitamin K
TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:29, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Trucks or lorries in private personal use?
Are there any trucks or lorries in private personal use, where someone just likes to drive one, and does not provide transport as a professional service? J I P &#124; Talk 22:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Chris_Eubank - "a huge American Peterbilt 379 truck cab". --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:13, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It's got a personalised number plate as well (shame he can't spell).--Aspro (talk) 23:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It reads like that because it's not actually a personalised number plate but a normal one that happens to almost spell his name, i.e. CHR 111 S. --Viennese Waltz 06:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Some Vintage lorry enthusiasts keep on trucking in Ireland. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I have occasionally attended Steam Fairs and Rallies (What, no general articles? Oh, there's this one.) in the UK, like the Great Dorset Steam Fair. As you'll see in that article's Exhibits section, 'vintage' commercial (internal combustion) vehicles are also shown, including lorries, and something not mentioned are the exhibits of old military vehicles from WW2 or sometimes earlier, usually restored to their wartime condition, which also include trucks/lorries. Most such vehicles appear to be owned and maintained (in roadworthy condition for the most part) by private enthusiasts: I believe a few owners may sometimes defray some of the not inconsiderable costs in time and money required by their hobby by making their vehicles available for period TV and film shoots, but for them this does not amount to a profitable commercial enterprise. Some owners, typically Old Age Pensioners unconstrained by job commitments, spend their summer travelling from fair to fair in the UK and Europe as a sort of extended caravan holiday. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.12 (talk) 23:49, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Some people use them as campers or to haul horses, boats, etc:, 75.41.110.200 (talk) 03:12, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've got a 1985 7.5 tonne Leyland Roadrunner Horsebox for personal use. I can drive it on my normal car licence because I passed it some time ago. Now you have to take an extra test to drive vehicles exceeding 3.5 tonnes. It's an easy drive, good turning circle but I do find that I am overstrong with the clutch in my car after I've been driving the lorry!!

Are there, then, any trucks with trailers in private personal use? All I've seen from those links provided are just the tractor cars. J I P &#124; Talk 13:45, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The trailer's only purpose is to ferry goods around. Don't you think its highly unlikely to be needed for one's weekly shop at the supermarket? Having said that, a certain butler ( aka Angelo Muscat) et. al., did find  that  his  Scammell Highwayman low loader, very useful for his escape from Wales – and who can blame him? Thinks... He must have been sitting on a box, in order to see over the steering wheel.--Aspro (talk) 19:09, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I have a friend that owns a box truck personally. He used to own a business which has since folded, but he kept the truck.  He's popular when people are moving, or buy an appliance, or helping people build decks, or stuff like that.  But he does own it, and not for any business purposes currently.  -- Jayron  32  19:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * How about going for a Sunday afternoon run in the countryside in one of these.  or this guy doing the school run ? . Not being left enough room to park by other drivers is hardly going to be a problem, is it? --Aspro (talk) 21:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)


 * There is also an old lady that resides in Windsor that even has her [[British Royal Train|

own train]]. That must beat a 40 ton Arctic any day--Aspro (talk) 21:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)