Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 November 5

= November 5 =

Remember, remember
Our article on Guy Fawkes Night says, in the lead section, that it is still observed in some Commonwealth countries, but the article does not go on to specify which ones. Can anyone say? Also, where it is observed, are there any particular foods or beverages associated with the holiday? Textorus (talk) 14:32, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I would imagine beer is involved. -- Jayron  32  15:34, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * That article has a history of material on modern-day celebrations being removed, as being relatively poorly referenced and (supposedly) inappropriate for a featured article. However, the linked Bonfire Night article does refer to celebrations in Canada, South Africa, New Zealand and the Caribbean.  In the UK generally, it's often mainly a fun time for kids, so the celebrations don't involve much more than fizzy drinks, hot dogs, burgers, and candy floss.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:43, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Candy floss ? Sounds like dental floss invented by an evil dentist.  StuRat (talk) 15:53, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Whereas when I first encountered the term dental floss in an American book, I imagined a kind of cotton wool, but wondered what would be specifically dental about it. --ColinFine (talk) 13:19, 7 November 2011 (UTC)


 * What's it called where you are ? StuRat (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)


 * In the UK, there are regional variations in what food is traditionally served on Bonfire Night. In the Black Country, Grorty Dick is traditionally served, with bonfire toffee. In Yorkshire, they serve Cinder Toffee and Parkin. Potatoes are traditionally baked in the embers of the bonfire. --TammyMoet (talk) 16:03, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Also toffee apples -- Jac 16888 Talk 16:40, 5 November 2011 (UTC
 * Here in Liverpool we roast chestnuts, and bake potatoes. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  18:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Guy Fawkes' Night was big in my part of Australia in the 1950s and 60s. Fears about bushfires seemed to put paid to bonfires, and fears about safety heavily restricted legal use of fireworks. These days it hardly cracks a mention, with massive American cultural influence leading to the arrival of Halloween in that part of the calendar. HiLo48 (talk) 16:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * First it was moved to Empire Day, 24 May, for a while. Then it went to our national day Australia Day, 26 January, for a while.  Then they banned fireworks for personal use, to protect the kiddies and also because January's in the middle of the bushfire season, and now we only have government-arranged community events.  Then they banned the burning of bonfires or any other open fires without a special permit, on environmental grounds.  They've managed to protect all the fun out of our lives.  I'm PCed out.  But yes, it's funny how we ignore Empire Day and its latter day guise Commonwealth Day on the grounds that they're not relevant to us anymore, but we're happy to accept American traditions like Halloween and Valentines.  How long will it be before we start having Thanksgiving Day here?  Except our Christmas/New Year period already covers Thanksgiving - some of my local stores have had Merry Christmas and Happy New Year signs since mid-October!!  And they start advertising hot cross buns in late December!!  I sometimes feel like walking into those shops and punching their owners in the face.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  20:35, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * In the U.S. you can count on retailers haveing merchandise for the next holiday out before the current one is finished: christmas decorations out pre-halloween. It's ridiculous.Heck froze over (talk) 14:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)


 * "Protecting all the fun out of our lives" - I hear you. And our retailers, especially wally world, start putting out Christmas crap before September ends.  Totally freaking disgusting. Textorus (talk) 21:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't mind businesses wanting to make money. That is their purpose, after all.  But when they misrepresent their commercialism as "the time for giving", "the season of love", blessings, thanksgiving, prayer, family values, forgiveness, reconciliation, homecoming and, yes, even holiness - the purchase of lawnmowers or chainsaws or playstations or crutchless panties being apparently closely connected with such things - that's when my "Bah! Humbug" comes out of mothballs.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  01:53, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It's still taken pretty seriously by adults in parts of England's South Coast and West Country. Almost everywhere else in England, private garden bonfire parties with fireworks of limited lethality are very common (three or four are within my earshot as I type this) but are aimed mainly at the kiddies (the parties, that is, not the fireworks). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.125 (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not something I've seen celebrated in Canada except maybe by a few diehard Anglophiles. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:03, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * In Canada, it's strictly a Newfoundland thing. I have a few friends that come from there and they get all nostalgic at this time of the year for it. Apparently, the bonfires are popular enough that they make quite a sight if you happen to be flying overhead that night. Matt Deres (talk) 15:42, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * It's also a "nerd" thing in Canada. I'm a Political Science major, and I have a number of polisci and history student friends who get excited about it :) If you mention it to normal people, their reaction is more like, "Oh, isn't that from that movie where Natalie Portman is bald...?" I don't know if "celebrate" is the right word, because that would require a sufficiently large concentration of nerdy people to have a bonfire, but I certainly know people who recognize it. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 07:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Guy Fawkes Night is widely used as an excuse for fireworks in NZ and in Auckland at least it's very noisy for an hour or 2 after it gets dark.   In truth, as the article says, it's doubtful many remember, most likely they barely know what Guy Fawkes is about other then a time for fireworks. If bonfires were ever a tradition here, they're not any more (there are various restrictions on open fires but it depends where you are). Some places ban setting off fireworks in public places but there's no universal ban nor any limitation on using fireworks outside the Guy Fawkes period. However there is a ban on selling fireworks to the general public outside the Guy Fawkes period, meaning for the public they will need to buy them then and store them (hopefully safely) if they want to use them at some other time, like New Year's Eve, Chinese New Year or depending on how early it occurs, Diwali; see Consumer fireworks. As highlighted in the early refs, there are persistent calls to ban firework sales to the general public completely, particularly from the emergency services and animal welfare groups; and threats by the government if poor behaviour by the minority continues this may indeed happen. Nil Einne (talk) 05:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Like in Australia, Guy Fawkes celebrations are also basically extinct in South Africa, not that it ever was a big deal anyway. I can't remember it getting mentioned in the media in the last twenty or so years. The "fireworks issue" comes up at New Year. Roger (talk) 08:56, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Enfield .303 Jungle Carbine
I have a orignal .303 No 5 mk I jungle carbine. Is the trigger suppose to be loose or wiggle a bit. Also I live in Phoenix Az. USA can I buy ammo here for the .303 75.226.0.143 (talk) 15:00, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You'll want to find a reputable and well respected gun shop near you. Any major metropolitan area should have someone who would be in the know on these issues.  I typed "Phoenix Arizona gun repair" into Google and got oodles of good leads.  Just type the same thing into Google yourself and you'll find something.  Contact a shop near you with a good reputation, and ask them if they will take a look at it.  They can assess the condition of the gun, make necessary repairs, and sell you ammunition.  -- Jayron  32  15:33, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This is the gun you're referring to I assume. If you're concerned about the safety of the gun you should take it to a gunsmith before you attempt to fire it. Most gun shops are not themselves gunsmiths, but undboutedly they can refer you to one. Also they may give you an idea of the vaule. The .303 British round is readily available, although you'll probably need to go to a major sporting goods store or a gun shop because it's not a ubiquitous round in the U.S. Shadowjams (talk) 18:20, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Blue Peter stamp collecting appeal
One of the things viewers have been asked to send in for Blue Peter appeals are used stamps. How do they get any money for them? Obviously, philatelists will pay for rare stamps, but as far as I can tell Blue Peter mostly got standard 1st and 2nd class stamps. Who would pay anything for them? Was it just a trick to make the children think they were raising money and actually all the money came from a small number of people that sent in valuable stamps? --Tango (talk) 18:59, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Not worth a huge amount but dealers do buy UK 1st and 2nd class stamps and sell then outside of the UK to foreign collectors. I believe they auction the rest of to dealers as well. MilborneOne (talk) 19:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Used stamps are sold in bulk filler packs, mixed proportionately by year, country etc to produce a false variety, then sold in bulk. Given that the human labour time required to classify bulk volumes of stamps may exceed the potential rewards from auctioning high value used stamps, it is possible for a stamp collector to find "interesting" stamps in bulk packs.  Check out the variety of ways that commoditised used stamps are sold.  Obviously the "mixers" of these stamp packs do have to keep a large back inventory to ensure diversity in any 500g bag of stamps.  Also, as noted, they'd probably sell these to other bulk distributors on a weight basis, allowing a Japanese stamp collecting company to sell bulk UK, or UK stamps mixed in with other "stamps of the world." Fifelfoo (talk) 02:13, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Islamophobia in the UK
How many Islamophobic crimes were commited in the UK for any recent year you can find figures (preferably last year)? Many thanks. 86.144.49.151 (talk) 22:58, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there's no legal definition for an 'islamophobic' crime, nor is it a specific class of crime. Do you mean hate crimes against Muslims and Islamic organisations and insitutions and places of worship? Or crimes which some random group has classified as islamophobic? For the former seems to have some stats although it seems to be primarily limited to Islamic institutions and places of worship (there is discussion of other hate crimes but I did't see any stats). Nil Einne (talk) 07:18, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I know the government keeps figures on racist and hate crimes, and I know it sometimes offers breakdowns by religion targeted. I was wondering if data for attacks motivated by a hatred of Muslims/Islam existed. 86.144.49.151 (talk) 08:50, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * A quick search turned up total (recorded) hate crimes motivated by race or religion (2009/10): 12,121
 * Unfortunately, it isn't clear as to how many were specifically targetted at Muslims, but at least it's a starting point. - Jarry1250 [Weasel? Discuss.] 14:02, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It would also be important to know the counts of the various groups, to get the proportions or ratios. Let's suppose there were 100 hate crimes toward Muslims in a given year, and 100 toward Anglicans. Though the absolute counts are the same, the percentage against Muslims is likely quite higher. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:10, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * BB, I think the OP was wanting the percentage of crimes, not the percentage of Muslims who had crimes committed against them (and I don't agree that this would necessarily be higher -- are there more practising Anglicans in the UK than practising Muslims?)   D b f i r s   18:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, according to Islam in the United Kingdom, there are about 2.9 million Muslims in the UK, while Church of England says there are 25 million baptised members, but only 940 000 regular churchgoers. I don't think any other Anglican groups in the UK are anywhere near this size (the Church in Wales and Scottish Episcopal Church both have about 50 000 regular churchgoers), but I don't know how appropriate it is to compare those numbers (do the 2.9 million Muslims regularly attend mosques - and does attending a place of worship imply a similar level of involvement in the religion in both cases?) 130.88.73.65 (talk) 10:56, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

OP here: I wanted to work out the per capita rate, which I can do since the data on the number of Muslims is easy to find. To be precise, I was going to compare it to anti-semitic attacks, for which I have all the data already. Maybe an FOI request to the Home Office... 130.88.172.34 (talk) 22:55, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Oodles of poodles
This might be best placed in Language but then again, maybe it's best here.

I was at an AKC obedience competition today and I was discussing dog breeds with someone. We noted that German shepherds were never simply referred to as "shepherds" unless it was already established via context that the breed you were referring to was specifically German shepherds. After all, there are also Australian shepherds. The conversation then naturally led to poodles...

We've often heard the poodle referred to as a "French poodle". It gets about 1.3M Ghits. And Wikipedia's link for French Poodle redirects to "poodle". But my friend and I have never heard of any other sort of poodle. So why bother specifying "French"? Were there at one time other nationalities of poodle? I notice that the term is from the German. So were there German poodles at one point? Dismas |(talk) 23:47, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:49, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * And amazingly the Germans had another fluffy little dog, the Pomeranian. Now I will have to re-envision the opening scene to Hogan's Heroes with the guards using those two breeds. :-) StuRat (talk) 23:57, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to add to the confusion, the Australian shepherd "was developed on ranches in the Western United States". HiLo48 (talk) 01:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, I was wondering why I'd never heard of an Australian Shepherd - personally I'd say a more likely candidate for a real Australian Shepherd is a Kelpie. Re the original question, I thought poodles were the big fluffy curly haired dogs, while French Poodles were the little ones with their coats clipped into ridiculous shapes once beloved of fashionable women, which our article seems to refer to as "miniature poodles". Perhaps the 'French' moniker is simply outdated, but I'm no poodle expert. --jjron (talk) 10:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I wonder if, being a dog of German origin, it received the French moniker at the same time German Shepherd Dogs started being called Alsatians? --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:06, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Seemingly not: the French poodle is mentioned in James Hamilton Fennell's A Natural History of British and Foreign Quadrupeds (1841). It's also in Jerome K. Jerome's Three Men in a Boat, so it must have been in ordinary conversational use in the 19th century. --Antiquary (talk) 16:07, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My understanding of the German shepherd / Alsatian thing was that during World War I in the UK, it became undesirable to give the Germans credit for anything worthwhile. German shepherds were renamed after the French bit of Germany, regardless of the fact that they didn't come from there. The German Sea was renamed the North Sea at the same time - a name that is still with us. German shepherds never work with sheep in the UK. We use Border collies and in the distant past Old English Sheepdogs. Sheepdog trials are a big thing in rural Britain; there were howls of protest when the BBC stopped their One Man and His Dog TV show - they now only do a special one at Christmas. Alansplodge (talk) 11:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Quibble: although a lot of German names did indeed get retooled during WWI, I'm not sure this was one of them.  As our North Sea article says, the name began ousting "German Sea" long before WWI.  A search of Google Books reveals numerous British works as far back as the 1820's referring to the "North Sea."  Textorus (talk) 16:54, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. The moral of the story is not to believe what history teachers tell you! Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 10 November 2011 (UTC)