Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 October 12

= October 12 =

song in youtube video at 8:24
(not a music video, just background music). 88.11.244.183 (talk) 00:40, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * And what reference would you like, sir? --Lgriot (talk) 08:03, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The name of the song? Or better, is there some computer program which could analyze audio and tell what song is playing? 88.11.244.183 (talk) 11:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Shazam! Shadowjams (talk) 20:33, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Prisioners numbers
How many prisioners from Palestine and other countries does Isreal currently hold? And also how many prisioners does Palestine and its cohorts hold from Isreal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by OttiesMom (talk • contribs) 02:04, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Our article 'Palestinian prisoners in Israel' says there are currently 7,000. I cannot find any numbers for the amount of Israeli prisoners held by the Palestinians, but I believe there is one soldier, at least (Gilad Shalit), as they are usually sent back during the Israeli prisoner exchanges.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  02:16, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There are eight listed here (including Shalit), but that list is only of soldiers. We don't seem to have a similar list of civilians; I don't know if that is because there aren't any. --Dweller (talk) 09:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Missing In Action' does not necessarily mean 'taken prisoner', and I really doubt many of them still are prisoners, even if they were in the first place, as they date back to the 70s.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  02:00, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Our article that mentions 7,000 is out of date (it says 2010). The BBC news coverage states there are currently 5,000 Palestinians in Israelis prisons, a figure that is shortly to reduce to 4,000, if/when the Shalit deal goes through. --Dweller (talk) 10:25, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm amazed at the exchange rate 1:1,000. Aside from that, what does this figure of 5,000 mean? Are they terrorists? Political prisoners? Common criminals? Who counts towards it? 88.11.244.183 (talk) 11:14, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The article linked above says "There are about 5,000 Palestinians held by Israel - some of whom have been convicted of serious crimes, but others are being held without charge." Palestinian prisoners in Israel has more info.  The vast majority are serving prison sentences.  However it's hard to classify some of them without taking sides in the conflict.  Some of those convicted of crimes were fighting against the Israeli occupation, so from a pro-Palestinian perspective they're not really criminals, although from an Israeli perspective they're terrorists.  A lot are unambiguously criminals and a small number were detained without trial for security reasons. --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:45, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * New version of that story now says 6,000 prisoners, but attributes the figure to Hamas. I guess it's not just Wikipedia that has sourcing and POV issues. --Dweller (talk) 13:04, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I would be a little surprised if there aren't any Israeli citizens in Palestinian prisons. What happens when an Israeli commits a common crime in the Palestinian West Bank?  Lots of Israelis including Israeli Arabs spend time in the West Bank and I would be shocked if none were caught committing any crimes like theft or even something like domestic violence. -- Daniel  17:44, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Surprise! Per Article 2 Section 1 of the Gaza-Jericho Agreement, the Palestinian Authority has no jurisdiction over criminal offenses committed by Israelis within its territory.  This is an example of extraterritoriality.  So, the Palestinian Authority has no legal authority to imprison Israelis.  Marco polo (talk) 19:54, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * So basically, Israelis can go to Palestine and steal or murder or whatever and completely get away with it? --70.248.222.85 (talk) 22:50, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Did you read the Gaza-Jericho agreement that Marco polo linked to? If an Israeli commits a crime in the territories, the responding Palestinian Police official must immediately alert Israeli authorities, and may hold the suspect at the scene until said authorities arrive. Buddy431 (talk) 23:03, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In practice the Israeli military occupying Palestine quietly watches when the settlers attack Palestinians, and often does little to stop it. Public awareness (talk) 02:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Public awareness has now been blocked indefinitely as a sock of the banned editor User:Passionless.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:28, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * How can Israel make such a deal? At a rate of 1 to 1000, Palestinians would have to kidnap just half a dozen Israelis to get all their prisoners out of prison. Quest09 (talk) 23:51, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * It wasn't the Palestinian Authority that kidnapped Gilad Shalit. If the Palestinian Authority were to begin kidnapping Israelis, its agreements with the Israeli government would be violated, and Israel would cease to observe them as well. No doubt, Israel would intervene militarily.  Marco polo (talk) 01:39, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I didn't say the Palestinian Authority did it, but they were definitely Palestinians, from Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip. Quest09 (talk) 12:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * You can't do a linear extrapolation, where 1 = 1000, 2 = 2000, etc. The government of Israel is firm in that hard-core killers will not be released. However, within any large group of prisoners, some will be in the prison on very firm and egregious grounds, others will be there on less firm or downright flimsy grounds. It comes down to a political decision in the end, Israel releases the 1000 least-bad prisoners (who they probably aren't that worried about anyway, plus they can always kill them later) and gain back a very high-profile army prisoner of their own. There is no relation to "Western" concepts of "justice", just realpolitik. In particular, this deal will not scale upwards, it's a one-off. Franamax (talk) 07:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't believe these facts are right. Israel is apparently releasing murderers too. A point that I forgot, however, is that Israel could imprison 1,000 Palestinians more for each Israeli kidnapped and then negotiate with them, so Palestinians would have to kidnap more and more in a kind of rats race. Quest09 (talk) 12:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't arresting an imprisoning 1,000 Palestinian people much more effort for Israel then kidnapping one Israeli would be for the Palestinians? Googlemeister (talk) 18:23, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know. It sounds easier for the Palestinians, but when you look at the numbers you see that Israel had imprisoned many more Palestinians than Palestinians have kidnapped Israelis, specially Israeli soldiers. Quest09 (talk) 22:38, 13 October 2011 (UTC)