Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 October 16

= October 16 =

Spittoon
what is another name for a spittoon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.104.197.136 (talk) 03:11, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Gee, I thought that would be easy. But I threw it at Microsoft Word's Thesaurus and got.... nothing! HiLo48 (talk) 03:20, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * See http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cuspidor.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 03:26, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Or the Wikipedia article Spittoon, which lists "cuspidor" as the most common alternate name. -- Jayron  32  03:28, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Zeker: "I'm going to miss that old spittoon." Abner "You always did." Absolutely true story: Visiting my Great-Grandfather's house in the country, forty-something years after his death, I found a spot where a hole had rotted through the boards of the front porch. Down on the ground, in the center of the hole, was an old rusty spittoon. His aim apparently deteriorated in his last decades. Edison (talk) 04:58, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * This antique, sung to a possibly-recognizable tune: "Toreador-ah / Don't spit on the floor / Use the cuspidor / That's what it's for!" No clips I can find via google, but credited to the Three Stooges (it was probably already old then), also appeared in The Simpsons, and I recall seeing it in comic strips from time to time. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:46, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The Toreador's Song from Carmen, of course. Probably parodied the day it opened. --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:59, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Defective Premises Act 1972
Could this Act apply to a new Caravan that has been defective since purchase? If you can help I would be grateful to hear from you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.128.34 (talk) 08:41, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but the ref desk can't answer specific questions about applications of the law. You need to consult an attorney. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the OP is in the UK, an appropriate expert to consult would be lawyer with a suitable qualifications or solicitor. If you are in Scotland, an advocate would be suitable. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 11:38, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * In England and Wales, the kind of lawyer that members of the public can consult is a solicitor. --ColinFine (talk) 23:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * And for free advice in the UK, and help accessing legal aid, one can contact ones local Citizens' Advice Bureau and make an appointment. 86.163.1.168 (talk) 15:03, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Standing (presenting a case)
for a complinant to competently present a case, he should consider the ability of the court to deliver the judgement.discuss — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zupamarick (talk • contribs) 10:57, 16 October 2011 (UTC) (Meaningful title added) AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * See also Standing (law). Dualus (talk) 18:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Travel time from Rome Fiumicino to Barberini
On Friday 21st October I'll be landing at Fiumicino at about 16:30 with hand-luggage only. Two of us will need to get to a hotel near the Trevi Fountain and we're happy to walk from Termimi. I'm aware of the various transport options (Leonardo Express, FR1 train plus metros, Terravision bus, hotel shuttle). My inclination is to take the bus as it's far cheaper (online tickets are €4) but I wonder what the traffic will be like and what provision there is for bus lanes, etc. The journey is scheduled to take 55 minutes (as opposed to 31 minutes on the train). Is that realistic at about 17:30 on a Friday? I don't mind spending and extra 25 minutes travelling to save €20 but I don't want to spend hours on the bus. Do you have any idea how long the bus journey will take? --Frumpo (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Friday rush hour is certainly going to add to your time. It helps that you are traveling into Rome and not out of it, but, on the other hand, there is a substantial volume of traffic from businesses near the airport and on the southwest side of Rome (such as EUR, Rome) to other parts of the Rome urban area.  Also, the bus has to travel through the congested streets south of Termini to get to the station.  I would be surprised if you could get to Termini by bus in under 90 minutes at that hour. For what it's worth, I've taken the Leonardo Express.  In my experience, it is easy, reliable, and stress free. Just don't forget to validate your ticket before boarding the train. Marco polo (talk) 15:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that's really useful. --Frumpo (talk) 18:37, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Luxury cars
Apart from being famous car brands, what is common to Cadillac, Lamborghini, Ferrari and Jaguar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.241.211 (talk) 18:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They are luxury cars, or considered as such by those who are satisfied with their engineering. Dualus (talk) 18:18, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Each one has at least one "a" in the name. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:26, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Answering the question will win a book? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 19:59, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They are all originally independent and are now owned by other companies, but that could be said about most car brands. -- Daniel 20:41, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Has "normal" spam disappeared?
In the last few months, I have found that every single spam message I've received in my e-mail is a Nigerian 419 scam. Apart from the obvious ones ("I'm Such-and-such, attorney-at-law for Such-and-such, who left $10 umptillion for you in his will") I have Googled the first sentence in the mail and it invariably turns out to be a 419 scam. A few years ago I kept on getting "normal" spam advertising fake Viagra and fake Rolex watches. (At least the spam for Rolex watches admitted they were fake.) Has "normal" spam disappeared? Is no one trying to sell something by e-mail any more, whether it's legit or not? Has my current rule-of-thumb "If you receive an advertisement or request to contact e-mail from someone you don't know, it's 100% certainly a 419 scam" become a reality? J I P &#124; Talk 21:12, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps your ISP has gotten better at filtering other types of spam? I certainly still get offers for "herbal viagra substitute", and "real college diplomas". APL (talk) 21:37, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen a Nigerian spam email for years, but I still get plenty of the others (mostly gambling and shopping sites). I guess it depends in what circles your email address is doing the rounds. It's worth Googling your email address occasionally; I was surprised to find mine out there at all as I'm very careful with it.--Shantavira|feed me 07:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, spam does seem to come in cycles. The only spam I've had for the last two months is all dated August 3rd 2011 with multiple forwards and with a subject of Windows & Office.  I haven't clicked it to see what it links to.    D b f i r s   08:47, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * M86 Security Labs have up-to-date data on spam numbers by type. For week ending October 16, 2011, they measured 41.42% pharmaceuticals and 0.17% scams (including 419). They're a bit vague about how it's measured, saying "based on Security Labs spam research and the spam activity we track in our spam traps".  I suspect it's easier to filter for pharmaceutical spam, which will include common keywords, than for scams, which can have endlessly varying format. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * It also depends on what sites you've been giving your email address to. I've had two different email accounts before. One used for normal stuff. The other was a junk email for registering in forums, websites, and the like. The two have an interesting difference in the type of spam they receive. The former received mostly the Nigerian stuff. The latter ranged from XxXViagraCialisXxX, mystery links, freebies from sites I've never been on, winning a lottery I've never bought a ticket to, questionable pharmaceuticals, "girls" claiming to be my soulmate in exchange for my bank account number, requests to "friend" me by strangers in websites I've never been on, etc. I think it's because scam emails have more of a human factor behind them than the rest which usually result from phishing. --  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   17:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * This might be the same case with me. It is my "real" e-mail address which I originally said had only received 419 scams, not "normal" spam. I use an alternative e-mail address, from HotMail, to register on Internet forums whose quality I'm not sure of. That address has received its spare of spam, too, but HotMail seems to have a very effective spam filter. I don't even use the HotMail address, or those dubious-quality forums very often any more. J I P  &#124; Talk 18:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Does your email client have a holding tank for spam that you can't see unless you go there? Mine has one, and every month-or-so, when I remember that it exists and I check it, I find that I have tons of ads for Rolex and Viagara.  Nyttend (talk) 00:33, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

My fog machine is spitting out the juice instead of fog, how can i fix this?
i got out my fog machine for Halloween this year, and instead of working like it should, it started spitting out the juice i had just poured into the tank. how can this be fixed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keekah (talk • contribs) 21:17, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't many fog machines need to heat up before being able to turn to juice into fog? At least several minutes, if not longer, depending on quality. Pfly (talk) 11:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * It may need cleaning (be sure to follow the cleaning instructions, as detergents might mess it up). Does it force the "juice" through a series of small holes to generate the "fog" ?  If so, maybe they are blocked.  Also, check the dates on any fluids you add to the fog machine.  They may not work if old and separated.  BTW, we have both assumed that this is a hot fog machine.  If it's a cold fog machine (fog pours onto the ground), then our advice will be different.  StuRat (talk) 19:44, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

refrigerators
When moving a refrigerator, can you lay it down for transportation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.68.247 (talk) 21:41, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't recommend it, but if you do don't lay it flat on it's back. Assuming it is a conventional household model, the back will have a series of tubes through which the coolant circulates. If you damage even one of those, your fridge will die, and you will get a facefull of some rather nasty gasses. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:58, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * ... and if you do transport it on it's side, the usual advice is to allow it to stand upright for four hours before switching on, to allow the coolants to drain back to their correct locations.   D b f i r s   07:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The instructions for my refrigerator say that, after transportation, you should leave it vertical for at least 2 hours before switching it on. --Frumpo (talk) 07:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Refrigerators have certainly been ruined by being moved on their sides, then placed in operation soon after delivery. One possible failure mode for a used refrigerator is that metal filings in the sump could get placed in circulation and ruin the compressor. Other theories involve the displacement of lubricant. Edison (talk) 01:38, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Just two hours of wait? I heared you should wait a whole day.  &#x2013; b_jonas 10:37, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Different authorities give different advice. Perhaps the time depends on the model of refrigerator, and also on how careful one wishes to be in avoiding possible damage.    D b f i r s   16:56, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

American potatoes
Asked what he likes best about America, Dirac said in this interview:

"What do you like best in America?", says I.

"Potatoes," says he.

So, are American potatoes really a lot different/better than European potatoes? Count Iblis (talk) 23:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * PotatoYield.png That's a rather broad question, there are dozens of varieties of potato. A lot of American potatoes are grown in Idaho, but as you can see from this map Europe has the most intense potato growth. Looking at the tone of that interview it seems clear to me that he was juts being flippant. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:55, 16 October 2011 (UTC)


 * The potato originated in the Americas...but it looks more like flippancy to me too. Pfly (talk) 00:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that Dirac was a notoriously odd guy. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I read Dirac's statement as being facetious, as in he couldn't think of anything good about America excepting the potatoes. Or perhaps being mildly silly as George Harrison, who in Hard Day's Night answered the question "How do you find America?" with "Turn left at Greenland".  I'm not sure he's necessarily saying that he's all that impressed with American potatoes, per se.  It's likely an attempt at humor of the sardonic type.  -- Jayron  32  02:11, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's possible. It's also possible he was being literal. Dirac was extremely unusual; it's been speculated that he was very high functioning autistic. He was usually extremely literal and had a reputation for giving extremely terse answers to questions. See this book review for a little discussion about this. I consider anything he utters to be something of an enigma — when he's funny, I'm never totally sure he's in on the joke. See also Paul_Dirac, which has some rather amusing stories in there, which again, I'm not sure Dirac was in on. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Keep in mind potatoes are a poor man's crop. Processed wheat is the more popular starch in affluent America. The Russet Burbank potato, largely from Idaho, is preferred for baking and fries and chips. White "Irish" potatoes and red potatoes are preferred for boiling, salads, and to stuff potato pierogies. Dirac, a dietarily deprived Frenchman, was most likely referring to the popularity of pierogies, with which he was most likely cuisinally ignorant in his backward homeland.μηδείς (talk) 02:33, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Potatoes were a poor man's crop during the Irish Potato Famine, but surely they have ascended greatly in status since then? Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually as I look at that map it has nothing in the far north. Believe it or not, we do grow potatoes up here. The Yukon Gold potato and other varieties are grown mostly in the Matanuska Valley, but there are farms as far north as Fairbanks. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:51, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, that map shows Europe and Asia as far surpassing the New World in terms of potato growing. It would be interesting to see a similar map that showed the number of species/cultivars grown. I suspect the Andres would stand out as a major hot spot, whereas it doesn't in this map of simple yield. Pfly (talk) 11:11, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, μηδείς, isn't this Dirac Paul Dirac, an Englishman? Pfly (talk) 11:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't know, negroes born in London to Ghanians like Ozwald Boateng are hardly ever referred to as Englishmen, are they? Must have something to do with something. μηδείς (talk) 13:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * They're usually referred to as British.--TammyMoet (talk) 13:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC):
 * I always thought of Paul Boateng as very English (as well as British, Ghananian and possibly Scottish). I regard these labels as cultural more than racial.    D b f i r s   09:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I was really surprised how Boateng was described in wikipedia as merely "British born" when I read his article after McQueen's suicide. μηδείς (talk) 05:43, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, of course, Dirac's father was Swiss and his mother English, so calling Dirac "a dietarily deprived Frenchman" implies a level of ignorance that often seems to go hand in hand with the thoughtless use of potentially offensive terms like "negro". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:02, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * He does it to get a rise out of people.--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   15:12, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, please. Yes, I should have called Dirac Swiss rather than French.  But Negro is the appropriate counterpart to Caucasian in this context.  The silly PC euphemism African-American would not quite have worked for more reasons than one.  The point is this.  In America, we do call the children of foreigners, born in the US, like Barack Obama, Americans, regardless of race, while we don't call children of American mothers, born overseas, Americans, like Winston Churchill, just because their skin color matches.  Wasn't there a thread discussing how many generations it takes for foreigners to be accepted as English? μηδείς (talk) 19:37, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL, that was a fantastically flimsy excuse. What about "dietarily deprived" and "backward homeland"? Replacements for the silly PC euphemisms for French Cuisine and France? --  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   20:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Excuse? what are you talking about.  Boateng is a negro, haven't you read the article?  If he'd been borrn in America and spoke Gen Am, no one would call him anything but American.  But he doesn't count as English apparently, even though he was born and raised there and speaks perfect English.
 * As for calling the French dietarily deprived and cuisinally ignorant people from a backward homeland (in an entirely different part of the thread), well if you can't figure that out I certainly won't explain it. μηδείς (talk) 01:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd also point out that not only is "Caucasian" a fairly stupid term, given that the Caucasus has little to do with it, but also that "Caucasian" actually is the "silly PC euphemism" for "white". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * That's interesting OR on your part but the terms are standard, and it is odd you seem to think I made them up. μηδείς (talk) 01:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh come off it. You're American, you're fully aware of the negative connotations of the word. All the more convenient because the equivalent term for the European 'race' has no such associations. Not being PC is all fine and dandy, being a jerk is another matter.--  Obsidi ♠ n   Soul   05:37, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, you have some nerve Obsidian Soul. You call me a jerk?  In other words a medically incorrigible masturbator?  Spare me your hypocritical PC drama.  The word negro is perfectly apt.  "Black" can include Australians.  "African" describes Qaddafi.  Neither of those words specifies the relevant fact of British racism towards Boateng and others of his race.  No one in my family objects to the proper use of the term, and you cannot provide a better one. In the meantime, feel free to give me your hands on demonstrations as to how to improve my technique.μηδείς (talk) 05:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the article, Ozwald Boateng was born to 2 immigrant parents whereas according to the comments above, Paul Dirac had an English mother so they aren't really directly comparable. Incidentally in case you were confused, Paul Dirac was born in and grew up in England. As to the question of whether Ozwald Boateng is English, anyone who has ever taken part in any discussion on the issue on wikipedia of which I saw one a few minutes ago knows it's a rather complicated issue for reasons way beyond ethnicity. A number of people dislike the term 'English' and prefer to identify only as 'British'. When the person has no historical connection to England in particular, this is probably more likely (although plenty of people with a historical connection prefer not to identify as British). (For various reasons this is less common but still often occurs for those in Scotland and Wales). Many sources do identify Ozwald Boateng is British and as someone said earlier that isn't really in dispute (sure some people may dispute that, but some people dispute Obama is an American). The question of whether he is English or not is ultimately something many of us prefer to leave up to him. If he wishes to identify as English, many besides the English Defence League would have no problem accepting his identity.
 * You are right, I was working under the false impression that Dirac had been born in Switzerland. It doesn't affect my argument that the treatment of Boateng is racist, but it does negate my argument that Dirac's lack of appreciation for spuds was based on his Frankness. μηδείς (talk) 05:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Similarly many people who are not born in the US and perhaps have only ever been there on holiday but are American citizens by birth because their mother is an American citizen (who fulfills the other requirements) may identify as Americans and most of us, including many Americans, have no problems accepting their identity despite your apparent disdain for such an identity. The fact that it isn't uncommon someone who is not a citizen or resident and has never lived in England and have no desire to, may identify as English is of course reflective of the fact English is both an ethnic identity and a nation. Similar to the way plenty of overseas Chinese identify as Chinese even though they may have never visited any part and are not a citizen or resident and have no desire to be, of anything that's called China (including Taiwan). Incidentally Lewis Hamilton is called English in a number of sources including our article, at a guess, his father probably is as well. Definitely his father is regularly identified as British. Of course sport is one area where national association within the UK often matters but not necessarily in a simple way (and admitedly not so much in motorsport). For example, Simon Jones (cricketer) is said to play for England, but he is actually playing for the England and Wales cricket team (normally called the England cricket team) which is governed by the England and Wales Cricket Board aka the ECB. Owais Shah and Usman Afzaal are both called English cricketers as they too played for the England and Wales cricket team, regardless of whether they were born in Pakistan.
 * Nil Einne (talk) 06:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You say "your disdain", but I am not sure whom you address. If me, I accept US constitutional citizenship law.  People born US citizens who do not otherwise renounce it are Americans.  Regardless of whether their parents were born in Ghana. μηδείς (talk) 05:34, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * According to this (p180) Dirac ate potatoes every night while studying in Göttingen. The English also traditionally ate a lot of potatoes (prior to the advent of pasta and other more exotic foods after World War II) - see English cuisine. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, should have guessed that Göttingen was what Dirac liked about America. μηδείς (talk) 13:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I am curious, do the Europeans distinguish between boilers and bakers like Americans do? Is the Russet Burbank popular or grown in Europe?  What variety of potato could you expect in Germany, and how normally prepared? μηδείς (talk) 19:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know about other European countries, but Germans seldom eat baked potatoes. Potatoes in Germany are typically either boiled or pan-fried.  (Beyond those two basic methods, there are variations, such as the equivalent of mashed potatoes, gratin, and so on.)  Many different varieties of potato are grown in Germany, most of which are not available in North America. Instead of distinguishing between bakers and boilers, Germans tend to distinguish between firm-cooking and soft-cooking (in German, mehlig or "mealy") potatoes.  Marco polo (talk) 20:13, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Shops certainly sell "baking potatoes" here in the UK, but I don't know what varieties these designate. --ColinFine (talk) 23:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Are the bakers large, elongate thick-skinned potatoes with a brown skin that resembles old-fashioned paper grocery bags of this sort? If so they are Russet Burbanks.μηδείς (talk) 01:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Our supermarket bakers don't usually have the brown skin you describe, but Russet Burbanks might be available in some places. The section Potato doesn't give an analysis of varieties on the "mealy" to "waxy" scale, but this websitegives information on lots of varieties.    D b f i r s   09:01, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * We do grow Russet Burbanks in the UK but it is only 19th most popular and I am reliably informed that they are all for processing into chips (fries). Maris Piper (we really should have an article) is our most popular spud and is a good all rounder so makes a good jacket, as well as everything else. Another variety site is here. SmartSE (talk) 17:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do make excellent fries (and bakers in my opinion). I used to boil barrels full of them daily as prep for deep frying when I worked as a cook. I am surprised it is even possible for there to be 18 varieties than them more popular. μηδείς (talk) 04:29, 19 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Re, all the racial chat above--I hope I didn't start that with my comment about Dirac being an "Englishman". I merely used that term because I saw on our page about him that his mother was "English" and he grew up in "England". I suppose I could have said he was a "Brit", but I thought that term more slangy than "Englishman". So now I wonder, is "Brit" slangy? Generally speaking, what should an American call someone who was born in the England part of the UK and grew up there? Pfly (talk) 09:02, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, "Brit" is a bit colloquial; you could always go with "Briton" or "British (man or woman)". Some Americans say "Britisher" which sounds horribly Germanic and is best avoided. However, "English(man or woman)" would be most commonly used, provided that you knew that the person wasn't from another nation within the United Kingdom. Alansplodge (talk) 10:47, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Queen Elizabeth II is undoubtedly an Englishwoman, but don't go calling her the Queen of England. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  19:48, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * She's busy being Queen of Australia at the moment! Alansplodge (talk) 10:30, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Verily. --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  10:57, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Briton? Really? I thought the term was archaic, as in the Britons (historical), although I see our Briton page says it also means British citizens. But then there's the thing about how the term makes me think of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail...I suppose I'll keep stumbling along never being quite sure what demonym is appropriate. I'm still wondering if there is a term for someone from Kauai. I suppose "Hawaiian", but then what is the term for someone from Hawaii-not-Kauai? Pfly (talk) 11:12, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * We usually add the prefix "Ancient" if we mean our Iron Age forbears. However, although rather formal, it is in common use to mean a British person; I take as my examples, the BBC; "Briton killed and wife kidnapped in Kenya", also one of our most august newspapers; "Britons of the Year". Then of course, good old King George III famously said "I glory in the name of Briton", even if he was a tiny bit German. Alansplodge (talk) 22:56, 20 October 2011 (UTC)