Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 February 11

= February 11 =

Countries or cultures were notable people who keep their year of birth a secret are common?
This is similar to two identical questions I asked before. I know in Japan, keeping years of birth secret is quite common with celebrities, with examples including Mell and Kaori Utatsuki (but there are many more examples: singers, mangakka, illustrators, seiyuu etc.). My question is not about why they do it (that was already answered before), but in what other countries have a significant number of cases like it. Although on the Japanese Wikipedia only Japanese people who have unknown birth years are listed, on the Italian Wikipedia, people of any nationality seem to be included (although almost only Italian and Japanese people are listed, and in the case of the Italians, most of them don't have articles here on English Wikipedia, and those that do have articles have years of birth listed). This implies that the practice is common in Italy as well, although since most of the people I checked have no article here, it's hard to confirm. I also know a few celebrities in my country who keep their age secret (Allan K is a good example, I think), but the practice is fairly uncommon and almost all mainstream celebrities have known birth years. Which other countries aside from Japan and Italy have a large number of notable people that keep the year of their private? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It has been common practice in the UK for ladies to keep their ages secret, in fact it may still be considered rude to ask. In this day and age it's harder for us to do this, particularly with birth registers now being online: if you know the name at birth and location of birth you can track the actual birth down if the name is uncommon. For example, a cousin of mine took seven years off her age, and her family registered her death under her adopted age. It wasn't until I started doing the family history that the "mistake" was uncovered. I know this doesn't address the "celebrity" part of your question, but it may shed some light on the practice. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Not addressing your query re cultures (sorry), but happening to have learned this only today from a book I'm reading, I'll mention that Austrian racing driver Roland Ratzenberger pretended to be 2 years younger than he was for professional reasons. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.247 (talk) 13:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, Ratzenberger's (may he rest in peace) year of birth is known. He changed it to be more attractive to racing teams, which may be the same reason why many Japanese celebrities keep their ages private. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:34, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * As – re Ratzenburger – is explained in the article I linked (as well as the book in question, Malcolm Folley's Senna versus Prost), which is why I linked it. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.194 (talk) 11:23, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Age requirements in gymnastics says it's not unusual (I know, not the same as common) for elite child gymnasts to age themselves up (or rather their coaches/parents do this) in order to compete before reaching legal age requirements.--184.147.128.151 (talk) 20:24, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, there was a big controversy in 2008 about some gymnasts from mainland China whose papers were allegedly doctored to make them appear 16 even though they were 13 or 14.--Itinerant1 (talk) 22:29, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

No, this is about keeping ages private, not changing them. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Just for the record, celebrating birthdays was not common in early modern Western culture until about 250-200 years ago. The date may have been known (although often only the date of baptism would have been recorded), but it was not celebrated and many people would not have been able to tell their own exact age. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This is pretty common in US acting circles as well--for instance, an actress sued the Internet Movie Database for listing her age. Here's an article about it. Meelar (talk) 00:44, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * But she appears to not be a well-known actress, and if she had an article here, it would be deleted as non-notable. I don't know any current mainstream actors like Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp whose year of birth is unknown, but I know that the practice was quite common in the early days of Hollywood. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Electronic checks
These days, in the US, when you write a paper check, they can apparently change it to be an immediate electronic check, without the approval or notification of the check-writer. Thus, instead of getting a cancelled check back at the end of the month, you get a cryptic EFT entry, which may not even include the name of the payee, much less any comment on the check explaining what it's for. This also prevents any possibility of stopping the check, and you lose the interest you would have accrued before they cashed it. They've essentially changed a check into a debit card transaction. This is in Michigan. So:

1) Can you request that a bank not do this ?

2) Do policies vary by bank on this ? StuRat (talk) 19:33, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * This is due to Check21. I don't think you have any voice in the matter, but you could call your bank and ask.  RudolfRed (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that first, you can get an image of the check in almost every case, and second, the technical name of the type of transfer is an ACH transfer. Banks really prefer the method, although it does eliminate some float from a lot of checks (which is why businesses like it). Shadowjams (talk) 23:19, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Three late 14th century crucifixes in Piran, Kotor and Split, The Adriatic Coast
I have twice visited Piran in Slovenia to see the late 14th century crucifix in the church there. It is said to be one of three, all by an unknown carver; the remaining two being in Split, Croatia and Kotor in Montenegro. The Piran crucifix is the only one I can find on line and from a very brief article, refernce is made to the general whereabouts of the other two, i.e. Split and Kotor, but not in sufficient detail

I've spent ages, years actually, surfing the web for references to the other two and wonder if you can help, please? Very occasionally I get the tantilising word, 'crucifix' in a heading, but no follow-up when I open the article. I simply want to know where I can visit the remaining two crucifixes. Thank you. Brigid M. 87.242.191.235 (talk) 20:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Gothic Sculpture in Istria mentions that the Piran crucifix ..."displays a striking similarity to homogeneous Dalmatian examples, especially to the crucifixes in the cathedrals in Split and in Kotor." Knowing that they are in the cities' cathedrals should help locate some more information. Warofdreams talk 00:30, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The only crucifixes mentioned by the Cathedral of St Domnius (Katedrala Svetog Duje) page are; "Next to the doors of the cathedral, one can see a late-Gothic polychromed crucifix carved by the Split cathedral canon Juraj Petrovic in mid 15th century. In the chorus, there is another big polychromed Crucifixion (on the cross in the form of the letter “Y”)." Alansplodge (talk) 11:22, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * See also Old crucifix in Kotor cathedral.jpg. The Kotor, St Tryphon's Cathedral page says "But most stirring is a large wooden crucifix, its image not quickly forgotten and mystifying in that its provenance is another unknown." The article infers that it is in the reliquary chapel of St Tryphon. Alansplodge (talk) 11:26, 12 February 2012 (UTC)