Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 July 15

= July 15 =

Common/Best Uses for Secret Rooms
Dear Wikipedians,

If I were to have a hidden room built into my house I'd like to think this was a great thing (the inner child in me says it would be too cool not to have, for starters). But I'm stumped as to what I'd do with it afterwards. Can you help me with legal and good ideas for such a space? It seems like having an area in your house not known about would be a benefit, but I can't work out what. 86.163.45.70 (talk) 17:58, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * A Panic room is one obvious (if dramatic use). --TrogWoolley (talk) 18:57, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

A panic room is one use to be sure, I'm just not convinced there's much likelihood of me being sufficiently closer to it than an intruder for it to be of much use in a home invasion. That's even assuming I'm the right side of the intruder to get there, I could be asleep at the time or in the wrong room of the house. Still, I'll keep it in mind. Thanks, but any more for any more? 86.163.45.70 (talk) 19:36, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It'd be a safe place to store your valuables. Further down the road, it might be an interesting feature to attract a buyer for your home. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:54, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Do you have any collections? Baseball cards, guns, art? Think of it as a panic room for your stuff rather than you. If you have something a bit larger than a safe deposit box that you want to keep secure, it might be just the thing. Dismas |(talk) 19:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If that's the case, maybe you need to sleep in the secret room?


 * You could use it as a hiding place, to emerge from unexpectedly when people think you are elsewhere - surprise family members, cleaners, or nannies in the midst of affairs, drug deals, inappropriate sexual behaviour, unauthorised wild parties, or similar!


 * You could use it as an oubliette? (Wikipedia's article does a very poor job explaining what that is.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:00, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There are two traditional uses for secret rooms. The first, already mentioned, is to store your treasures.  A bank account and safe deposit box are better ways to store most treasures, but possibly you have large items for which a safe deposit box is not a good choice.  The second is as a hiding place when the house is being searched.  For example, secret rooms were used in the United States as part of the Underground Railroad, and the real-life House of the Seven Gables has a secret room (not included in the novel of the same name) that may have been meant as a hiding place during the Salem witch trials (although our article seems to say that it was added in the 20th century).  Having a hiding place is a legal use, but it's obviously of greatest value when used in connection with illegal activities.


 * In practice, if you just want a secret room but don't have any great need for it, it may make the most sense not to keep it that secret, but instead to let it be a conversation piece to show your friends and a place where your children can have a clubhouse. John M Baker (talk) 20:11, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Priest hole and Bad Ronald come to mind. —Tamfang (talk) 06:12, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * A bomb shelter, in addition to being able to withstand bombs, is often kept secret, to avoid having everyone in the neighborhood show up when the bombs start to fall. In a modern context, you might want to make a place to escape a terrorist attack, say a dirty bomb.  There it's not the blast that's the major concern, but breathing contaminated air.  So, it would need to be sealed off, and have air tanks to extend how long you can stay inside, along with other necessities like water, food, and a bucket (use your imagination). StuRat (talk) 06:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If it's on the ground floor or in the basement you can use it as the base for a secret network of tunnels, like the mole man of Hackney.--Shantavira|feed me 07:27, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * If you are into gaming (Call of Duty) etc it would be a nice place to hide away and play undisturbed (no need if you live alone of course) but should also provide you with silence to be able to hear the tiny noises that give away movement of other gamers near you (in the game!). Obviously the lack of natural light and potential lack of fresh air MAY impact your quality of life if you stay in there for prolonged periods, but personally I would love a little hideaway like that! Yes I'm single....... gaz hiley  10:44, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Soemthing to keep in mind: Well before digital cameras became available, I built a house with a home darkroom for film and print processing, complete with vestibule so I could leave the room while processing was in process without light getting in.  The outer door of the vestibule looked like a built in cupboard, so it would be unlikey a visitor would bother opening it.  To build here (Western Australia), you need to submit plans to Local Government and obtain a Building Permit.  They weren't too happy about it, but eventually, after much negotiation about ventilation, drainage, and other haggling, they allowed it.  That's problem number 1.  When I came to sell the house, the real estate agents I consulted looked upon it in horror - they thought it would discourage purchasers, and advised me to ask for a price about 10% lower than it would otherwise be.  Problem No. 2.  Ratbone120.145.168.216 (talk) 16:14, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Fair points those, as well as the suggestions above. I'll probably check out the cost of slapping a normal door on it when I sell the house and see if it isn't too daunting. Planning permission (the UK equivalent of Building Permits) are a bit of a kill-joy aren't they? They're probably for the best though. Thanks all! 86.163.45.70 (talk) 17:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

George and/or Hannah Hartsell
Do you have any records for George and/or Hannah Hartsell who lived in Telford in the late 1700's and established the Indian Creek Christ Reformed Church. George died in 1784 and Hannah moved with her sons to Tennessee after his death. Their son, Jacob, was a Captain in the U.S. Army during the War of 1812.

Ruth Boettger, Revelstoke, BC Canada```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.114.167.17 (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * We're not actually a genealogical site, which your question seems to suppose. You can search yourself using the Search window.  I did this and found one George Hartsell, but he seems to be a different person.  No Hannah Hartsells at all.  Sorry.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:49, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * A quick search on Ancestry.com's international edition provides a Bucks County, Pennsylvania naturalisation record for a George Hartsell in 1740. The final entry in "Genealogies of Pennsylvania Families from the Pennsylvania Genealogical Magazine. Volume I: Arnold-Hertzel", indicates that this was Hans Georg Hertzel Jr, alias Hans George Hartsell (born at Reihen in the Upper Palatinate in 1714), whose wife Catherine (born c 1713) had given birth to their first child in 1737. This Hans George Hartsell is recorded as having drowned at Easton on 21 January 1762. Given the relatively late date you give for Jacob's service as a captain, is it possible that your George Hartsell was the son of Hans George Hartsell and Catherine? Failing that, perhaps a nephew? Hans George Hartsell was the eldest son of Pennsylvania pioneer Hans Georg Hertzel Sr, and his wife Anna Margaretha Conrad - they had several other sons.
 * There do seem to be some other Hartsell/Hartzell/Hertzel families around, but this is the only one I've found in Bucks County. It's worth noting that I initially thought your question was about Telford, and that Telford, Pennsylvania was in those days called County Line. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The church lists a different founder. Rmhermen (talk) 04:38, 16 July 2012 (UTC)