Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 July 6

= July 6 =

Doctor's office credit card billing
Not sure if it makes sense to ask this here, but I'm hoping for help. Is it non-scammy for a doctor's office to require credit card information before letting you in to see the doctor, and then telling you they're going to bill the insurance company and then charge your credit card automatically? Is this something I can trust? A one page pdf by way of explanation is here: http://www.wilshireaesthetics.com/images/Forms%20used%20by%20Practice/Insurance%20Copays,%20CoInsurance.pdf I've never heard of anyone doing this, and I'm slightly wary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.151.147.239 (talk) 06:31, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not uncommon, but use your best judgment. It's up to you to trust them or not.  RudolfRed (talk) 06:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. I guess I'll decide when I go in. Didn't know it was something that was done. Anyone else with relevant perspectives, please contribute. :-) Thanks! 98.151.147.239 (talk) 06:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * 'Not uncommon' where? This is an international project, and a significant proportion of both contributors and readers may come from places where "a doctor's office [requiring] credit card information" is more or less unknown - and since we give neither legal nor medical advice, per policy, we shouldn't be doing both at the same time. If you want advice on such matters, this isn't an appropriate place to ask. And it isn't an appropriate place to offer it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's reasonable to assume that the OP is asking about the place of the clinic in question. It would be rather silly for them to be asking about whether the policies of a clinic in Los Angeles are common in, say, Wales — it's not an impossible question, but one would expect them to make it clear if that were the case. And it's not legal or medical advice that is solicited; it's a question about whether a given business practice is a red flag or not for the operations of the business. One does not need to be a doctor or a lawyer to know these sorts of things. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd be rather wary of such an office. They've taken away your right to decide what you will and won't pay for.  If you are billed for items or services you did not receive, you can no longer refuse to pay, you have to convince your credit card company to give the money back.  Good luck with that. StuRat (talk) 07:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Credit card companies are usually pretty good about that (at least in the UK). It's not unusual to give credit card details in advance as security, although I'm used to doing it with hotels rather than doctors - in the civilised world, doctors are free at the point of use! ;) --Tango (talk) 11:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * They're not "free", they're paid for by your higher-than-the-US's taxation. As regards the credit card thing, I've never seen that done in the US. If they try to pull that stunt, find another doctor. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what 'free at the point of use' means. Try reading for comprehension. But then I suppose the disproportionately large US military is 'free at the point of use' too. AlexTiefling (talk) 11:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's stop this little tiff right here. It's not the place for it.  Stick to the question. Mingmingla (talk) 17:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The nanny speaketh. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It strikes me as a good idea. If you can't trust your doctor's office with this arrangement, do you think you should trust them with your health? --jpgordon:==( o ) 18:22, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting that you say that. In the US, many citizens inherently distrust government, yet are perfectly willing to entrust them with their Social Security and healthcare... 128.227.41.167 (talk) 19:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's a matter of which parts of the government different people distrust, and with what duties. The United States isn't a monolith.  Ian.thomson (talk) 19:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a forum, folks. Stick to the question. Mingmingla (talk) 22:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The nanny speaketh again. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


 * One can certainly imagine a practice being difference in its financial trust versus its actual personal care to the patient. One can also imagine finding its financial practices worrisome enough not to trust them with medical issues, either. This reasoning doesn't get you to an answer here. If I put out a shingle that said, "amputations $500, no questions asked" you might find my business model alone enough to make you distrust the quality of my medical care. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:04, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There was a recent exposé on dental chains which prey on the elderly, by getting them to agree to high interest loans to pay for unneeded work, with the interest accruing from when they agree, not when they start their dental work. So, in this case, the companies are shady both from a medical and financial perspective. StuRat (talk) 05:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Mercury City Tower
Can anyone tell me if the Mercury City Tower, and the Vostok Tower mentioned in this article are one and the same. I note different heights are given for Mercury and Vostok, so perhaps not. We don't presently appear to have an article about Vostok Tower so maybe it is called something else. Cheers Paul MacDermott (talk) 11:55, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Federation Tower, specifically the East tower thereof (Vostok is Russian for East). FiggyBee (talk) 12:07, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll create a redirect. Paul MacDermott (talk) 16:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Hot water heaters -- when do they realize they should stop?
Would anyone know offhand how long a contemporary, typical hot water heater would go, when no hot water is being used, before scaling back its operations or turning off entirely? Vranak (talk) 19:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * My guess (just a guess) would be a built in thermometer and pressure gauge, that starts up when it's below a certain amount and stops when it's above a certain amount. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * For sure, but I'm interested in knowing what that 'certain amount' would correspond to in chronological terms. Like if you went on a 2-month vacation, how much gas would it waste heating up water that no one ever used? Wild guesses encouraged if experienced ones aren't available. Vranak (talk) 19:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Why do you want to leave it on whilst going on vacation? If its to stop freezing, then frost protection heaters would be cheaper – (or change the date of your vacations).--Aspro (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Depends on the thermostatic control and the amount of water in the circuit. In large house it might go on longer due to the longer pipe runs than in a small dwelling. Weather the pipes are lagged or not would also effect it.--Aspro (talk) 19:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Every water heater I have seen has a vacation setting on the temperature dial. Rmhermen (talk) 20:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * It depends on so many factors. The ambient temperature. The temperature the water is set to heat to. How well insulated the tank is. I assume you mean an electric immersion heater and you are in the USA. If not, there is more you need to tell us. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Most hot water heaters will just go on maintaining the water at whatever temperature you've set, indefinitely. There's no reason (or for most controls, no means) to have it do anything differently than it's designed to do, short of setting it to "vacation." In vacation mode it'll just run indefinitely at a lower temperature. It's possible that a high-end unit will have a fall-back program, but that would be specific to the manufacturer.  Acroterion   (talk)   21:37, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I wonder if any programmable thermostats exist for water heaters, similar to for furnaces and A/C. Might be useful, as it could just make warm water most of the day, but make it hot when everyone takes their baths/showers. StuRat (talk) 02:28, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * A better system is 'instant' hot water heaters. Smaller reservoir and higher wattage I think. It would be easy to rig any timer to an electric tank power supply and probably to the control circuit on gas ones as well. The electric one would need a 'contactor control' because most are 240 volts and 20 amps = 4800 watts. Timers are usually 'control power' 120 volts and far less wattage. Most electric hot water heaters have two elements and thermostats. The top element and stat keep the top 1/4 tank or so warm and in high demand the bottom ones kick in. I know they are set different and if you get the top and bottom settings backwards it really messes up the efficiency. I think I remember them as being opposite of position though. This means the top is set to a lower temperature than the bottom. I could be wrong. If you take off the top and bottom covers you can see the difference. Turn the breaker off first though because the 240V wires are very tight and close to the stats.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * In comparison with a natural gas water heater, the (≈3x) cost of electricity makes switching to an electrical water heater a bad idea, whether full-time or on-demand. Also, many homes will lack the electrical wiring and capacity to support them (4800 watts is probably more than my entire house uses, and certainly more than any one circuit could handle).   StuRat (talk) 05:00, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree it is not worth switching to electric. Instant hot water heaters come in both, I think. I expanded the article Hot_water_storage_tank. If I remember right each element is 2500-3000 watts but they have 'sequence switching' so that only one turns on at a time. The breaker and wire are sized to higher wattages though and any timer used has to match that.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * http://waterheatertimer.org/index.html seems you can get timers for them.
 * http://www.globalelectricalsupply.com/Tork-1104-NC-Same-Day-ON-OFF-24-hr-Time-Switch-p/1104-nc.htm?Click=774&gclid=CLzM_NbLiLECFSQbQgodVWOUTw a low cost electric one. Mechanical means it is cheaper, reliable, and easy to program.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

What is the name for a multi-faith temple on a ship?
There is a one-word term for a multi-denominational prayer room on a ship. Do hospitals use the same word for their chapels? 75.166.192.187 (talk) 21:13, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Interfaith refers to dialogue between diverse religions. Ecumenical refers to unity among Christian churches. Is either of these the word you want? DriveByWire (talk) 21:22, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I was mistaken: there is not a one word term for this. I was looking for something like "interfaith chapel cabin" (picture example.) 75.166.192.187 (talk) 23:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd just call it a chapel, and would assume that "ecumenical" is understood unless otherwise specified. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 23:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There is an article about St. George's Interdenominational Chapel, Heathrow Airport. DriveByWire (talk) 00:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I seem to remember that one of my former employers offered the use of a "multi-faith prayer room", but only ever called it that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:57, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "Faith Centre" or "Multi-Faith Centre" gets a lot of Google hits. Alansplodge (talk) 01:05, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The hospice where I volunteer calls it a "sanctuary". It's available for use by those of all religions and none as a quiet space. --TammyMoet (talk) 07:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much. 71.212.249.178 (talk) 06:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC)