Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 June 10

= June 10 =

Silver Marks
I just purchased a piece of silver jewelry with the mark "OP" within an oval. Can someone tell me who, what, where, when, ie. the meaning of this mark please? I have not had any luck with an exact match. Thanks in advance for any help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.244.157.10 (talk) 00:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * says it might be made by "Olav Petersheim" (along with other possibilities). Note that "Olav" with the consonants swapped is "oval", so he might have used the oval as a bit of a joke. StuRat (talk) 00:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * A quick search turned up Otto Paul De Parisen as a possibility according to this source. Modocc (talk) 01:48, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Dial fasteners
What are these types of fasteners called? What type of tool would be needed to install them (on a small scale basis, not mass production)? Thank you. → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 01:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks like a type of grommet or eyelet. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:14, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It's an eyelet and you'll need an eyelet punch. Hope this article helps. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:39, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.   → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 21:01, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Why hurricane names attached to destructive hurricanes are retired?
The list states that cyclone names used for destructive hurricanes are retired (no longer used for any other cyclones). Why do they do that? 123.24.115.76 (talk) 05:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll let the other meteorology people more knowledgeable than me on tropical cyclones chime in here, but from what I've always gathered it's basically out of respect, in a way. Ks0stm  (T•C•G•E) 05:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's to make it easier for us here at Wikipedia to name articles about them. That's really it. Not just Wikipedia of course, but there are inevitably many references back to major disasters. If the name is re-used, it would cause confusion. HiLo48 (talk) 05:48, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * List of retired Atlantic hurricane names states: "Those hurricanes that have their names retired tend to be exceptionally destructive storms that often become household names in the regions they affected." Hurricane Camille (1969) was the first permanently retired hurricane name— I was ten when it hit, and it is still a local conversational topic. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 13:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's worth clarifying that typhoons, (tropical) cyclones and hurricanes are the same thing in this context, just using the more common name in the particular geographic area. And some storms older than 1969 have had their names retired. HiLo48 (talk) 18:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Spencer - Borgia
I have a question Concerning two Wikipedia webpages - (1) Diana Spencer & (2) Lucrezia Borgia. Both sites state that Diana is a descendant of Lucrezia Borgia, but neither gives any details of that relationship. I would like to see the lineage. 72.225.27.255 (talk) 12:39, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Section title added --ColinFine (talk) 13:05, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It's laid out in the article House of Sforza. Don't know whether or not it's accurate. --ColinFine (talk) 13:08, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't actually see Lucrezia Borgia mentioned on the House of Sforza page. If there is a connection, I don't think that's it. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Others who read the page can see "The Sforza would later join with the Borgia Family, through the arranged marriage of Lucrezia Borgia to Giovanni (the illegitimate son of Costanzo I of Pesaro)." DriveByWire (talk) 18:54, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But that doesn't answer the question. That page shows Diana as a descendant of Muzio Sforza. Giovanni Sforza was a great-grandson of Muzio via a different line of descent and in any case he had no children with Lucrezia Borgia. (Indeed, their marriage was annulled for non-consummation, though that was a murky business). Valiantis (talk) 19:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, the claim is false. It appears to have arisen through careless copying from sites which mention, separately, that Diana was descended from Caterina Sforza, and that Brooke Shields is descended both from Caterina and from Lucrezia Borgia.
 * To be cautious about it, I would say specifically that Charles II was not descended from Lucrezia Borgia, and that thus any descent of Diana from Lucrezia must therefore be by some other route; but I doubt there is one. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:11, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why does this matter anyway? Going back that far, the chances that any two people are related is relatively high, and unremarkable. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It matters first and foremost because the OP asked the question, and we're here to answer their questions. If it doesn't matter to you, feel free to not get involved in this thread at all.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:49, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * True, no offense to the questioner, of course. I just mean that this sort of thing doesn't really belong in Wikipedia articles in general. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:17, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you may have more than a few battles on your hands if you propose to take that idea any further. Reference to notable ancestors and descendants is a normal feature of wiki-biographies.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  02:46, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Adam's question was rhetorical. Jack's response was literal. End of story. DriveByWire (talk) 15:03, 11 June 2012 (UTC)