Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 October 21

= October 21 =

Annual Essay Anthology
I wrote an essay entitled, "My Brother the Negro"

The certificate I received is as follows: Certificate of Acceptance National Essay Association AN ESSAY SUBMITTED BY PATTY MILLER HAS BEEN ACCEPTED FOR PUBLICATION IN THE ANNUAL ESSAY ANTHOLOGY Signed by D Hartman

This was around 1959/1960 out of Martins Ferry High School, Martins Ferry, OH

I would like to be able to locate that publication. Do you have any suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Practicalpat (talk • contribs) 03:50, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I would think that the obvious first step would be to try contacting the school. --Dweller (talk) 04:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * "National Essay Association Creative Writing 1960" brings up this volume. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Wise decision
Hello there, I got the PDF version of Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" from one of my friends a few month ago. I printed it only one side of size A4 paper. My printer does not have duplex printing option. Now the size of book is huge. I can't read this book while lying on the bed and even I can't hold this book in my hands for a long time. I can only read it when I use study table. I have read only one or two chapter. Recently, I have found this book on book store. And that version is very light weighted compare to printed version. Is it wise to buy that book from book store while having the same book in different shape? Help me please. Thanks--180.234.20.177 (talk) 12:21, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Nobody here can possibly offer any constructive advice on or whether or not to buy this book other than pointing out that it will be more convenient to read, but will cost you money. Balancing convenience against cost will be a matter of opinion, depending on your personal circumstances.  The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions. -  Ka renjc 13:20, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Note that you can still get two-sided prints out of a printer which lacks the duplex option, although it involves printing one page at a time, then feeding it back in in the proper orientation so it will print correctly on the other side. However, it likely costs more to print an entire book either way, and it also will take hours, especially if you want duplex prints.  So, given the choice, I'd buy it or read it online.  However, if you already printed it out, then you will end up "throwing good money after bad".  So, I'd use the one already printed.  But, of course, the decision is yours.  If you stick with the home printed version, I suggest you break it up by chapter, or less (however thin you need to make it so you can staple it).  If you have a wide enough margin, you could also use binder clips.  StuRat (talk) 16:49, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You don't need to do that. Plenty of printer drivers and a fair amount of software supports manual duplexing in which case you only have to feed the pages back into the printer once (possibly more if your printer can't handle that many pages in whatever feeder), although you do have to be carefully to keep them together and not screw up when feeding them back in. BTW, from experience with printing books, unless you want very large type, if you're printing on A4 or similar size paper you generally want to print at least two columns per page. For A4 size paper you can effectively handle this by printing as A5 and priting two pages per side. If done properly you can stable or otherwise bind in the centre for a booklet. I've found this works well although I do agree it's helpful to split the book up in to perhaps 2-6 parts depending on the length. If you're printer lacks automatic duplexing and so can't do this completely automatically you should be able to do it manually either with the printer drivers if it supports that or the right software. The big problem here is you have a PDF which while good if you want to preserve the layout is a crap format for an ebook when you don't such as when printing. You can't easily change font size, there's no automatic reflowing etc which somewhat makes it more difficult to get something that works well (depending on the original what you can come up with without too much effort may or may not work well). BTW I don't know if I'd agree printing yourself is always going to be more expensive if you already legally own the book in ebook format (which is somewhat unclear to me). While publishers can obviously print a book much cheaper then you can, for a copyrighted book their markup may be high enough that it's easily cheaper to print. It helps of course if you're using a laser print, buy generic toner and have cheap paper. (If using an inkjet definitely generic ink.) But e.g. the book is US$7.99 including shipping to the US on Amazon . From the number of pages, I'd suggest you'd need perhaps 100-150 A4 pages for the entire book presuming two columns per side, filling the page resonably well and double side. In Malaysia I could get about 500 sheets of A4 for about RM9.00. So make that RM2.70 for the paper. A cheap black inkjet catridge or refill either locally or from China would cost perhaps RM30 and could do say 4 books (probably more and in reality the price is an overestimate particularly if buying a few from China or buying ink in bulk) so make that RM6 for the ink. Round up thats only US$3.00. Of course this ignores the cost of wear and tear on the printer, power and the time you spend. In NZ the cost of paper here pushes the price up (ink is basically the same since you can still get it from China for very cheap) but it's still come under US$7.99 from the material cost. Nil Einne (talk) 02:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * In theory perhaps, but, in my experience, something always goes wrong. Either paper starts jamming, or you accidentally print over earlier sheets, or have the pages upside down, or you start getting streaks across the pages, or any number of other problems.  You're more likely to end up with the printer flying out the window than with a good, clean print.  To put some numbers on it, I'd estimate I get a good print out of my printer 90% of the time.  So, for a two sided print, that's 81% of the time (let's say 80%, allowing for the possibility of me feeding it in the wrong way when trying to print the other side).  So, 100 pages like that would have a 0.8100 or 1 in 4.9 billion chance of coming out perfect.  StuRat (talk) 09:12, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Except that I've printed several hundred pages of books this way without the same issues so either you have a crap printer or it's user error (from your description, it sounds like user error is a significant contributor). Mind you, this is with automatic duplexing which reduces the possibility of errors in some areas (pages the wrong way up because you screwed up for example) although increases them in others (I expect jams are more likely). And I'm pretty sure people in offices and homes all over the world don't have any where near the problems you have otherwise printers wouldn't exist. When I'm just printing books to read, I don't of course expect perfect prints, I'm not planning to sell them which for what we're discussing would almost definitely violate copyright, but they're pleasantly readable and easier to read then on a computer. In fact, while perhaps not with a PDF, in general printing an ebook can have the advantage if being able to choice a font size and typography that you prefer and also of using bleached (i.e. white) paper compared to the unbleached paper common with paperbacks which while not particularly environmentally friendly will generally mean higher contrast. As mentioned, you can also split the book up meaning what you're holding at one time would generally be lighter and also makes sharing easier. (You can of course try to break a purchased book up but often the binding isn't designed for this.)
 * An ebook reader may be cheaper in the long run, this was only something I was doing at one stage because of the poor availability and quality of libraries in Malaysia but I doubt I'mn the only one.
 * Of course when I have needed presentation quality documents, this is also usually easily doable (well perhaps not so well with the super cheap ink and paper) and I'm pretty sure plenty of people have printed their thesis and other many page documents in presentation quality again without the issues you seem to have. (For starters, I know some.)
 * Nil Einne (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. I'm presuming of course we're talking about a modern inkjet or laser printer and not a 20 year old dot matrix one. Nil Einne (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I've had similar problems with industrial copiers. If it jams 78 pages into the first side of a 100 page book, it can be darned near impossible to get the situation resolved without tossing out the 78 pages already copied and starting over.  Taking it in smaller chunks seems to help, both with this problem and the common office problem of somebody else needing to use the copier.  (Waiting until you have the copier to yourself at night also helps.) StuRat (talk) 23:55, 27 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much StuRat.--180.234.98.75 (talk) 19:22, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * You're quite welcome. StuRat (talk) 10:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Pumpkin
Therecord holding pumpkin was weighed at the Topsfield Fair in TOpsfiled, MA, not RI. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.248.160.167 (talk) 12:46, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed it was, as verified here at Pumpkin Nook. The pumpkin was grown in RI but taken to Massachusets for the competition. The image of a one ton pumpkin on a pickup barrelling down the highway is awesome. I have updated the pumpkin article. Thank you anonymous friend for your vigilance. If you notice something like this in the future it a better to post your note on the talk page of the article. Best to you.  Richard Avery (talk) 13:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Pokemon Black & White sequels
A while back, my brother and I got Pokémon Black and White. I played White, and he played Black. Now we bought the sequels. Should we continue with the same colors as we had before, or should I play Black 2 and he play White 2? Does the game even have any way of knowing (e.g. via trading or something) which versions we originally played? (I know other game systems can do this because they save game data internally, but the DS games save to their own cartridges, so there's no direct access for one game to look at another's save game files.) Thanks! - SigmaEpsilon → Σ Ε 13:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * While I can't decide for you, I would recommend sticking with the colour version you used, if only for minor storyline purposes. These are direct sequels, so if you finished the first ones, these pick up from there, including which legendary dragon you would have seen, depending on Black or White.  As for whether it "knows" what you originally played, yes, it can, though it takes some doing: Memory link  has the info you need, but it does contain spoilers.  The instruction booklet that comes with the game will give more info as well. Mingmingla (talk) 16:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

What vehicle is this?
This is a Toyota van in China. What is the exact name of the vehicle make and model? WhisperToMe (talk) 13:31, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * File:AirChinabus0.jpg
 * File:AirChinabus1.jpg


 * Google search and close look at the bottom right of the bus tells me it's a Toyota Coaster EX. 24.101.193.186 (talk) 13:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Whups, it seems like I overlooked that. Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 13:56, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) 24.101.193.186 (talk) 14:00, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

WAPPEN SCHANKWEILER COAT OF ARMS,
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME THE MEANING OF THE SYMBOLS PORTRAYED ON THIS COAT OF ARMS. I AM DISTANTLY RELATED TO THE CITY THROUGH MY FAMILY TREE. I WOULDD LIKE TO KNOW THE STORY FOR MY FAMILY HISTORY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

DARRELL SHONKWILER72.184.96.112 (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Here are the arms of the town of Schankweiler (Wappen simply means coat of arms). There is a description of the meaning here (in German). From what I can make out, it depicts the local parish church, the River Enz on which the town stands, an oak leaf representing the area's forests, and an item of Beaker pottery. My German's not great, so maybe someone else will be able to provide a more authoritative translation. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 16:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. The seven-stepped gable apparently represents a small hill above the village chapel which is known as the "Mariahilf".  The chapel shown in red is called the "Schankweiler Klause", and is the most famous structure in the town.  On the left is a silver cup, which is an artifact taken from a neolithic gravesite that was found in the town.  On the right is an oak leaf with three acorns, denoting that there are many oaks in the area, and that the name of the town may have something to do with oaks (I don't understand this part clearly).  The water at the bottom is the river Enz, which flows through the town. Looie496 (talk) 16:52, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Heraldrywiki has a description in English. This translator also didn't understand the part with the oak clearly (neither do I) and unfortunately none of the descriptions mentions the date of the creation of the coat of arms (which should be between 1966 when the jar was found and 2006 when the image was uploaded). --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 21:41, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * This page, Die Gemeinde Schankweiler, says (if I interpret Google translate aright) that the town takes its name from the Barons Schenk von Schmittburg ("weiler" seems to mean Hamlet (place)). So perhaps the Traubeneiche (Sessile oak?) is an emblem of that family? Alansplodge (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

In the meantime, I found a photo of the parish church of Schankweiler, Die Pfarrkirche St. Michael, which does indeed have stepped gables on its tower (BTW they're called "Crow steps" in England). The text about the hill is the location of the Mariahilf chapel, also known as die Schankweiler Klause. The beaker was found in this megalithic cist grave. There is a picture of the beaker here but my PC can't see the image (some gibberish about Flashplayer). Alansplodge (talk) 00:46, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Name of Economist
Hello Can you tell me the name of I think a Canadian Economist that when to school with Bill Clinton? Best Regards, K — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asmja (talk • contribs) 16:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard to say. Bill Clinton got his undergraduate degree at Georgetown University I can't find any Candadian economists listed at List of Georgetown University alumni who would have attended at the same time he did.  He also went to University of Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship, looking at List of Rhodes Scholars, I do find one Canadian who was at Oxford with Clinton, that being Rex Murphy, but he's not an economist rather a news commentator.  Still, that's the best I can find.  -- Jayron  32  04:35, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He also attended Yale Law School, List of Yale Law School alumni only turns up a few Canadians, none of whom graduated with Clinton. Now, that doesn't mean that he didn't attend Georgetown, Oxford, or Yale with a future Canadian economist, just that Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any information on it.  -- Jayron  32  04:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Romantic friendship
I was just reading the article on romantic friendship on Wikipedia, and wondered... Can a romantic friendship exist between two people of opposite genders? All the examples in the article are same-sex pairings... 117.227.89.151 (talk) 19:34, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, it is usually referred to as Platonic love when it's opposite sex pairings. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:38, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

But platonic love excludes physical displays of affection like holding hands, cuddling and kissing, while romantic friendship includes it. So what I'm asking is, can a girl and a guy kiss/cuddle/hold hands and still be friends, that is, romantic friends, and not lovers? 117.227.89.151 (talk) 19:43, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Platonic love excludes sex, but not necessarily affection (a parent may hold a child's hand, cuddle, or kiss them, and be affectionate but not sexual). Beyond that, your question heads into advice and opinions, which the Reference desk does not handle. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I think my question was more about the definition of the term itself, as opposed to opinions or advice. If that was the case, then every question on this desk could be misconstrued as a plea for some sort of advice or another. What I require is precise, factual information about the boundaries that outline the definition of a relationship which the article doesn't sufficiently cover. Now then, if anyone still thinks that I'm asking for advice, feel free to archive the entire thread and stop commenting on it. 117.227.89.151 (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * First you have to define 'romantic'. I have a lot of female friends whom I consider to be very close friends, with whom I can have a good time, and even rely on. Is this what you mean? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 20:19, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Precise, factual information" is impossible with relationships, as they are social constructs and vary from culture to culture, and emotional in nature instead of logical. We cannot offer our opinions.  Ian.thomson (talk) 01:13, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That is utter nonsense and totally unhelpful. Saying "sorry the question is unanswerable" in the midst of people (including you yourself) providing input is ridiculous.  Just because relationships are "social constructs" doesn't make them undefinable - the fact that we can have articles on them at all speaks to that.  And it is perfectly conceivable that there are sources out there that address this guy's question. -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:41, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * And you didn't answer the question or provide sources because...? You're honestly not helpful either.  The closest one could come to answering is "According to X's study of Y culture/subculture, it opposite sex romantic friendships are (encouraged/common/uncommon/rare/discouraged)," and we don't know what cultures or subcultures the IP is concerned with.  It's really no different than saying we can't answer a question on how much skin is acceptable to show: there's too many considerations for someone here to answer anywhere near accurately.  Ian.thomson (talk) 13:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I know that in my sub-culture it is far from uncommon for any friends, or even close acquaintances, to show physical affection including hugs, cuddles, tickling, ear nibbling, resting heads on shoulders and more that might be seen elsewhere as signs of an intimate relationship... although, it is true that such things are more common in same-sex pairings 213.104.247.116 (talk) 20:22, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

An excellent book on this area is An Intimate History of Humanity by Theodore Zeldin. You will get more from reading that, OP, than from asking us here. And it has plenty of references to follow up. People may have other reading suggestions. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC)