Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 September 17

= September 17 =

What other famous movies besides Wizard of OZ has portrayed witches to be cackling, old, wrinkly, evil, you get the idea..............
What other famous movies besides Wizard of OZ has portrayed witches to be cackling, old, wrinkly, evil, you get the idea.............. Neptunekh2 (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it all started with the Scottish play. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Indeed, many versions of Macbeth portray witches that way, although Shakespeare's original depiction of them is somewhat more spiritual than demonic.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 17:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * How famous is famous enough? Does Hocus Pocus count?  Dismas |(talk) 17:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * How about Suspiria or Wild at Heart (film)? It's hard to measure the famousness of films, it's true. The Witches (1990 film) is another obvious contender. Card Zero  (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * More infamous for camp than famous, perhaps, was the "Wilhelmina W. Witchiepoo" character from the H.R. Pufnstuf TV series and Pufnstuf (film). StuRat (talk) 18:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Then there's the witch in Pumpkinhead, although not sure if that qualifies as "famous", either. StuRat (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Both the Tom and Jerry animated shorts and the Loony Tunes ones featured the stereotypical pointy-hatted green-skinned warty witches. See "The Flying Sorceress" (T&J) and Witch Hazel (Looney Tunes) for examples.  -- Jayron  32  19:05, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * At the very least, Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film), out 2 years before TWOZ, had the witch pretty much that way except for having normal-colored skin. So it was probably already a well-known stereotype. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It's probably more fruitful to ask the opposite question... 'cause right now, I'd say "all of'em have". Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 22:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Not really. "Good witches" are about as common as "bad witches" in fiction.  We have the two good witches on the Oz books, conflated into one in the movie (Glinda), Samantha on Bewitched, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, etc.  Of course, there is the stereotype that good witches are pretty and bad witches are ugly, although Snow White was an exception, where the evil witch was apparently "the second fairest in the land".  Wicked (musical) also played around with our good versus evil assumptions. StuRat (talk) 23:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In Snow White, the witch wasn't cackling, old or ugly. That was just her disguise in her attempt to help save Snow from incurring unnecessary medical expenses. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * And for UK readers, although I don't think Evil Edna was ever in a movie... Willo the Wisp --TammyMoet (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The Witch in Snow White? She was that "pink right down to her underwear", first in a long line of lefty California congresswomen, Helen Gahagan Douglas. μηδείς (talk) 04:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * For late 70's and 80's kids T-Bag will bring back memories... gaz hiley  12:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * That article says you're a decade behind the times. StuRat (talk) 14:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I presume gazhiley is referring to the year of birth of the children, not when they were children, in which case the suggestion seems reasonable. Nil Einne (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't forget Enchanted; however, that film is derivative from other classic Disney films. Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 17:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

are horror movies more popular in the summer or at Halloween?
are horror movies more popular in the summer or at Halloween? Neptunekh2 (talk) 16:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you objectively define "more popular"? Are you referring to rentals of videos?  Box office sales of new releases?  If the latter, it might be a biased viewpoint since studios may want to connect Halloween and the movie.  Dismas |(talk) 17:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Even defining "horror movie" could be slippery. But I think Neptune's best bet would be to take the top 10 or 20 horror movies by total box office, then see what time of year they were introduced. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:09, 17 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Even defining "summer" could be slippery - WP:SEASON. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Only one of the Friday the 13th (franchise) release dates was not between late April and Early August. I suggest you check other such franchises. μηδείς (talk) 23:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Shadowjams (talk) 11:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Finding 1990 census maps
Hi! I want to find what the city limits of College Park, Georgia were in 1990. How do I access the 1990 U.S. census maps so I can make it source-able to Wikipedia and accessible to an average person? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you don't mind me asking, to what end are you trying to establish those city limits? It would help to answer the second part of your question, which would be to make it a valid source for a Wikipedia article.  In order to answer whether it is or isn't a valid source, we need to know "a source to say what"?  Also, there's no requirement that a source is accessable online.  It merely needs to be reasonably availible to the public, such as in a public library.  Have you tried the public library of College Park, Georgia?  They would likely have old maps in their archives.  -- Jayron  32  22:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I am trying to find whether the headquarters of ValuJet (in 1994) were ever in the City of College Park, and AFAIK the best way to establish that is through the 1990 US Census map of the College Park city limits. Unfortunately I cannot access the College Park, GA library in person, but perhaps a Wikipedian in Atlanta could find this out? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:51, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the article claims that the headquarters was at 1800 Phoenix Boulevard, Atlanta, Georgia. No idea if this postal address was within the city limits of College Park.  However, you want to take care with drawing your own conclusions from primary government documents.  Several places in Wikipedia (including WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY and WP:BLPPRIMARY) caution against drawing any conclusions or performing your own analysis on a primary source.  I have no opinion one way or the other whether or not this is or is not an appropriate use of the primary source here, but a map clearly is a primary source, and you should be aware that one should not try to put one's own interpretation on what the primary source means.  -- Jayron  32  03:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This is different: it's not OR or SYNTH to take a map showing a city's boundaries and from that to say that a specific address is inside or outside those boundaries. Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I'm just saying that I wouldn't call the issue settled one way or another.  One could make a case from similar situations using other government documents that similar usages aren't allowed.  For example, one cannot use a government document to establish the birthplace of a person.  One can cite a reliable secondary source which does so, but not the original government documents.  So there are cases where similar uses of primary sources aren't normally allowed.  I'm not saying he's fine, and I'm not saying he's not.  I'm saying I wouldn't call the matter unambiguosly settled.  -- Jayron  32  12:49, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * (ec) As far as the Census Bureau goes I think you will need to use GIS to access the 1990 geographic data, which is online in a database/format known as TIGER, here: Cartographic Boundary Files. Unless you're experience with GIS and TIGER it might prove difficult to find the right data and make the map you want. I don't think the Census Bureau has online mapping apps or premade maps for 1990 data at this point, other than for larger things like whole states, county boundaries, etc. I could be wrong, the Census runs a vast website. There may (or may not) be 1990 census map data for your city somewhere on the Internet other than the Census's website, but I wouldn't know where. And yes, as Jayron32 said, I would check local sources, such as the city and county's Planning Departments, GIS Departments, and such. Fulton County GIS is here. If nothing else you could probably call or email them. They probably have 1990 census geographic data even if they don't make it available online. And they might have such data online, perhaps via that Annexation Query Tool or one of their other web apps. Pfly (talk) 22:52, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Here are the Fulton County census tract maps for 1990 in pdf format.  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 07:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that these maps state: "The boundaries shown on this map are for the Census Bureau's statistical data collection and tabulation purposes only; their depiction and designation for statistical purposes does not constitute a determination of jurisdictional authority or rights or ownership or entitlement."  You need either the official municipal map or a map authoritatively based on that map.  Our College Park, Georgia article links to the current map; perhaps if you contact the city they can provide you a 1994 map.  John M Baker (talk) 17:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick look on Google Maps tells me that the surrounding businesses all identify themselves as being in College Park. And this Google map seems to show the city limits.  Do you have any reason to suspect that 1800 Phoenix Boulevard is somehow outside College Park, or that the city limits might have been different in 1990?  Astronaut (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)