Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 September 8

= September 8 =

Transiting the Panama Canal--at Night?
Hi Folks - it's me again. When my wife and I retired, we decided on the 2 big holidays we most wanted to do - BTW, we are British. This year we did the Canadian Rockies, plus an Alaska cruise, plus a week in Vancouver - all of which were totally brilliant - one down and one to go. So, when we came home, we went to the same travel agent who showed us the 2013 brochure from the same Holiday provider - and decided to fly to Miami, sail through the Panama Canal - including a daylight transit, and finish up in Los Angeles before flying home to the UK, next April. The daylight transit is and was a quite specific requirement for obvious and photographic reasons. But now I have discovered from the Cruise line's own website that they have changed the ship, and also that they now plan to transit the Canal overnight. BTW this is not a question about legality, it is only asking for information about how disappointed I might be about transiting the Canal in the dark. I expect the immediate surroundings of the Canal will be well illuminated, but given the Canal was intended to be the highlight of the whole 20 day trip, I am also - uninformedly - expecting it to be the catalyst for a major disappointment. Any informed comments would be most welcome. And thanks in advance. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 12:53, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have rewritten your title. -- Hoary (talk) 13:04, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, the most important thing would probably be to point out that a wholly night-time transit sounds unlikely. As our article mentions, "the average time it takes a vessel to navigate the canal [...] has oscillated between 20 and 30 hours". So you should get to see at least some of it in daylight. - Cucumber Mike (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:06, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * A cruise ship will not be hanging out on Gatun Lake waiting for its chance through the locks. I would expect a passage of 8-12 hours.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:20, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The really interesting bits, that is the five locks, will be very well lit from a safety point of view, so enjoy those and consider how much work went into building them and how much work and skill is involved in getting your vessel safely through. I hope that you enjoy the cruise anyway, I'm sure that you will.--85.211.136.133 (talk) 14:06, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I've been through the Panama Canal 2 1/2 times (the half was going through Pedro Miguel and Miraflores locks in a small boat and taking a bus back). I agree, the locks are the key points, along with passing under the two bridges.  Between the locks, what you see is a lot of scenery, mostly without habitation as the canal authority has never permitted building along most of the Canal (you will see some by the Pacific entry).  I would suggest asking on cruisecritic.com, which is the best website for cruise chat that I'm aware of.  Additionally, you will find a "roll call" for the specific sailing you are on, and you may be able to get a lot more information there.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:21, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Have you spoken to the travel agent? They may be able to move you onto another ship. Or they may at least know more about the night transits. --Tango (talk) 22:12, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a 5-minute video on YouTube that came up as my first entry when I typed Transiting the Panama Canal- at Night into Google. It's a photography cruise that goes through by night. That might help you. Bielle (talk) 23:51, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * There are also time lapse videos of transiting the canal at night, like Panama Canal Transit at Night (Time-Lapse). Pfly (talk) 03:59, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Brilliant responses - especially the Time-Lapse one above. Thanks to everyone though. Much appreciated. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 11:20, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Having given it a little more thought, I really doubt they would go on a night transit. You may be deceived, since you said it was on the website, with indefinite times like "12:00 a.m." for the entry into the Canal.  That's could be because they don't know the exact time.  The passage through the Canal is such the highlight of the cruise that I'm dubious that they would do it at night.  Check with the company.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I did exactly that with the Cruise Line directly who have affirmed that it is they who have changed to an "Overnight" transit from the previously advertised daytime transit. They also said we are departing Cartagena (East to West) at 2 pm, aiming for a midnight transit of the Canal, which I understand from all the responses above that it will take 14-20hours all told. But when I explained that the prime reason for the daytime cruise was because I am an avid photographer, they apologised and suggested I contact their Customer Liaison Dept. I will let you know in due course what transpires. But thanks again for your thoughts. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 15:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


 * If you get a full day in Panama City, or in Colon, you can probably take that small boat excursion I mentioned, you well see things like the stuff in the lock walls that they used when they used the locks as drydocks for US Navy ships. You may want to switch to another sailing.  Unless your deposit is non-refundable or you are locked into travel plans, you may decide to switch to another sailing, there are lots of canal cruises.  Again, I urge you to post on your sailing's roll call on cruisecritic.com, they are far more informed about cruises than we.


 * I hope this is helpful and encouraging: I descended the Three Gorges Dam locks at night.  They were very brightly illuminated and I'm pretty happy with the surreal photos I captured.  hayttom 15:45, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Old TV Commercial
When I was a kid I remember seeing a car commercial that was set in the U.S. Southwest, possibly in Monument Valley. The car was perched on top of a rock formation that was several hundred feet tall (along with the requisite female model standing next to it). What car was featured, and what was the name of the rock formation? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 19:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like a 1964 advert for a Chevrolet Impala SS. Googling "Chevy Impala Monument Valley YouTube" will lead you to a copy of the ad online (I won't link directly from Wikipedia to what may be a copyvio). Monument Valley seems to be correct; perhaps someone else can identify the exact formation for you? -  Ka renjc 20:59, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And it's not Monument Valley, it's Castleton Tower. Here is a more about it. --jpgordon:==( o ) 21:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, thanks Jpgordon, just found a more accurate description that confirms the location in Utah. Apparently they went back and recreated the ad in 1973 with a hardtop Chevy (here's a post showing a copy of a magazine article about the event). -  Ka renjc 21:23, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There have been more recent versions of this commercial from the 80's and 90's, but I have no idea how to find them. μηδείς (talk)

Plagiarism and Direct Quotes
I've heard George W. Bush's autobiography Decision Points be criticized when it was released for alleged plagiarism. However, the "plagiarism" in his book consisted of direct quotes that someone else (such as a general or his advisor) said when Bush was in the room with them. Thus, even if these conversations first appeared in another book, is it really fair to criticize Bush for plagiarism even if he did not cite any sources for these convos considering that he was actually there when these convos took place? Futurist110 (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/12/george-bush-book-decision-points_n_782731.html#s180908&title=Hamid_Karzai - Here's a reference to what I'm talking about if someone is confused. Futurist110 (talk) 19:52, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Whether something is fair or not is a subjective value judgment and therefore not something the Ref Desk can answer.
 * What we can do is give you cites that demonstrate whether the view that he was plagiarising is a widely held view or is a fringe view. You can read them and then form your own conclusions (assuming you haven't already done so, which is a distinct possibility as I read your question). --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd like to see what the mainstream standards for plagiarism are since I probably wouldn't consider what Bush did to be plagiarism by my standards but I'm not sure if my view is a majority/mainstream view or if it is a minority/fringe view. Futurist110 (talk) 21:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Then plagiarism is probably your first port of call. It has lots of resources for further reading on the subject. --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:21, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The article you linked to says "[The publishers] also got a mash-up of worn-out anecdotes from previously published memoirs written by his subordinates, from which Bush lifts quotes word for word, passing them off as his own recollections." If that is an accurate description, then that is plagiarism. Using someone else's words and passing them off as your own is precisely what plagiarism is all about. If we were talking about exact transcripts, then there would only be one way to write it and it wouldn't necessarily be plagiarism but I doubt the book does contain transcripts. --Tango (talk) 22:18, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You doubt it because...the White House doesn't have access to such things...? Why, exactly? μηδείς (talk) 23:04, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Sugar Gliders
Where can i buy sugar gliders for under $90 in central illinois? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 19:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Apparently sugar gliders can be kept as pets, which surprises me: Sugar_gliders. StuRat (talk) 20:36, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And can apparently be purchased in Chicago here, although I know that isn't quite Central Illinois. Mingmingla (talk) 20:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * How many 80 foot tall eucalypt trees will you be able to provide for it to glide between at your place? HiLo48 (talk) 21:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The sarcasm is strong in you. They are pets and i just want to buy one for cheap, nothing illegal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 23:28, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * When you have a sugar glider, you are the tree. I have considered it more than once, from all I've read, they can make great pets. However, a single glider will require a LOT of attention since you have to take the role of the group they would live with in the wild. That means playing with him for several hours every single evening (they are nocturnal animals). Don't expect someone else to take care of him while you're on holiday or whatever, since he may refuse to eat anything until you return. A second one bought later may be considered an intruder. Starting off with two will make things a lot easier, more like having two pets instead of one child... Ssscienccce (talk) 01:32, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wonder if for fun, you could launch (if it wants to - don't just hoy your glider out of the window) the critter from the upstairs of your house towards someone standing below? Or have the person set off running and see if the glider can catch up... --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 12:32, 10 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You're only a couple of hours from Chicago, which isn't too bad of a trip. But I wonder if you've tried calling any area pet shops? Some shops, even outside Chicago, have been known to sell exotic pets. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:36, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

This link gives ten great reasons to get a sugar glider as a pet, and at the bottom mentions animal shelters, which may be willing to give you some gliders for free. My understanding is you'll want to get two females, since they'll keep each other company, won't produce offspring, and don't scent as much as the males. μηδείς (talk) 20:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And if they still prove to be annoying, get a cat. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:10, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * μηδείς: ". . . don't scent as much as the males." and "you'll want to get two females" lol, there are some Freudian truths here, deep very deep! Marketdiamond (talk) 10:52, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno, sounds kinda squirrelly. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:25, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't mind your finding that funny, but it really is rather standard pet advice, and the males even have a bald patch on their foreheads they scent with. I assume the females are also less likely to hump your leg in front of guests, make of that what you will. :) μηδείς (talk) 19:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

amazing Chinese cliff road
Back during the recent Summer Olympics, there was an ad on (American) TV featuring an amazing road cut into (and under) some cliffs in China. Anybody remember it, or more importantly, what the road is? —Steve Summit (talk) 21:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * This seems to be an article about the series of adverts, of which yours was one. Looks like you could be talking about the Guoliang Tunnel. -  Ka renjc 21:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It was and it is! Thanks.  —Steve Summit (talk) 23:23, 8 September 2012 (UTC)