Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 August 19

= August 19 =

where can i find how much particular states get from the federal government
compared to the income taxes etc from that state to the feds? Does a wikipedia article cover this? Thnks.76.218.104.120 (talk) 05:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Which country did you have in mind? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  05:49, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems the user could be in Palo Alto, CA, so maybe, they mean the USA? --Lgriot (talk) 12:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Our article is Equalization payments. These payments don't really exist as such in the United States. Here's an academic article that seems to cover the topic quite well, with an emphasis on the situation in the U.S. . Also take a look at the article Federal taxation and spending by state which has the data that you seem to be looking for, for the U.S.. --Xuxl (talk) 13:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks yes i did mean to specify the usa, but forgot.76.218.104.120 (talk) 13:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

How to make my table on my wikipedia article not appear on the bottom?
Hi there! My table on my article that I made keeps on appearing at the bottom. Is there any way that this can be resolved? The page is Jennifer Gillis

Also it is an orphan page..how exactly can I prevent this article from being an orphan page? What do I do? Can you let me know in detailed steps? Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your help, I so greatly appreciate it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LindaYates13 (talk • contribs) 09:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It seems from the edit history that you made a mistake and left off the closing "|}" symbol - which probably confused the formatting software.  It looks like another editor came in and fixed that for you about three minutes after you finished editing it!


 * A page is an "orphan" when no other articles refer to it. So if you can find other articles that talk about this person, then adding double-square bracket links to her name when it appears would fix this matter.  For example, you say that she was a cast member in Over the Rainbow.  OK - so go to that article, look to see if there is a list of performers there and link to your article from that list.  When I check, it seems that this link has already been made - so your article is no longer an orphan.  There is another link to the article in Gleneagle Secondary School where Ms Gillis is listed as a "Notable Alumni".


 * SteveBaker (talk) 13:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * First, it looks fine to me. Could you be more specific about what you are seeing?


 * Second, in order for it not to be an orphan, you have to go to other articles and create links back to the Jennifer Gillis article. So if there is an article about TV shows or movies that she has been in, then make sure her name is linked in that article. Dismas |(talk) 13:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Edge's Guitar at Live 8 concert
I was wondering if anyone knows which guitar Edge's playing while U2 performs Vertigo at Live 8. Is it a Fender Stratocaster? Also... another related question, is there any reference that says if Edge has been seen playing a Squier Strat?  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  14:46, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * So I think there were two times they played the song at Live 8: One time at the main stage during the day, and once at night on the BBC rooftop. In both cases he is playing a Fender Telecaster, but different ones each time (main stage: it is yellow/blond coloured model, and the rooftop it is a red/burgundy one with a neck humbucker). -- Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 03:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Atethnekos! Anything on the Squier?   Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:12, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There's a discussion in this forum suggesting that The Edge may have used a Squier guitar with infinite sustain on the song "With or Without You," but it seems to be a matter of dispute. Our Infinite Guitar article says The Edge owns one of three such guitars made, and that he recorded "With or Without You" with it, but doesn't provide a reference.  Another discussion from the same forum I linked to above talks about the Infinite Guitar, and says "rumor has it that it was prone to break down, which is why they stopped using it somewhere during the Zoo TV tour."  It also says the Infinite Guitar system was built into what looks like either a Fender or Squier Stratocaster.  There's a Youtube video embedded in the discussion that shows the guitar, but all I can tell from it is the guitar is Strat-shaped.  Since the WP article on Michael Brook says made his own Infinite Guitar using a Tokai Strat copy (also uncited), it's possible that the Edge's is made on a cheaper (i.e., Squier) guitar as well, but I don't find anything that says so specifically.   --some jerk on the Internet    (talk)  17:03, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much some jerk on the Internet. Well, it is a good answer, at least I know now that it is possible that Edge uses one of those :)  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  17:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

How do I pay a quote?
Usually Google is my friend, but every permutation of the question "How do I pay a quote?" either brings up pithy sayings from famous people, or tells me to contact X company for a free quote on their product.

I've already contacted the rental company in question with my order (60 folding chairs and 6 tables, scheduled for delivery sometime in late September) and they sent me a quote, which wants me to fill out my credit card information and contains this note: ''THIS IS A QUOTE ONLY. To reserve your items a 50% deposit is required at time of booking along with the signed quote. Final payment and final numbers are due 5 days prior to delivery. No orders will be delivered until full payment is received.''

So....I have to send them half now, and half 5 days prior? Can't I just write them a check for the whole thing? I don't understand why I can't just pay for the rented furniture. It seems they're making this unduly complicated, and I'd prefer not to give them my credit card information.

Any help clearing things up is appreciated, I've never dealt with 'quotes' before. The caterer and the musicians I also hired for this gig didn't have one. 2602:306:C4B4:ADF0:65B4:CCE2:D71F:B4C7 (talk) 20:08, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, there does seem to be a classic contradiction in terms there. "This is a quote only" might be more usefully followed by instructions in the event the enquirer wishes to accept the quote; not by assuming that as a given, and then acting as if the "quote only" is actually a bill.  Very confusing.  I share your pain.  If I were you, I'd just pay the lot in one go, now.  I can't imagine the company having a problem with that.  I can sort of understand businesses being reluctant to deal with cheques these days, but if that is your definite preference, I presume you have their name and address.  If not, maybe a quick phone call to the company would get you those details.  If their phone number is not available, I'd be very wary of doing business with them at all.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:28, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * This rather peculiar payment system is clearly due to the nature of their business. I suppose it's rather common for people to cancel their events - which could cause this kind of furniture rental company a lot of problems.  So they ask for half of the money up-front so that if you cancel entirely, they aren't totally out of pocket - and neither are you.  In effect, you and they share half of the risk...which seems fair.  Then the other part is due five days in advance of the event (when, I presume, they have zero chance of renting the equipment to anyone else) - with the rather nice point that you can still adjust the exact number of chairs and tables when you know exactly how many people are going to attend.
 * If I were you and distrusted them with my credit card details, I'd give them the first half of the money as a check - and then withdraw the other half as cash and pay that 5 days before the event as they ask. That way, if something unforseen does occur you won't have to struggle to get the other half of your money back - and they won't have to worry about a check bouncing just days before the event.  SteveBaker (talk) 20:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * (EC) I think you're missing the point that just because you prefer doesn't mean others will. It's hardly surprising that people may not want to pay the full amount of something which may not be fulfilled for months, not everyone has loads of cash sitting in the bank and there's also the loss in interest or profit from using the money for other purposes.
 * So many companies only require a deposit either of part of the amount due or of a fixed amount to reserve the items or their time or start producing them or for the company to put an order in for them or whatever. (The full amount generally being due just before or just after or during or otherwise fulfillment of their end.) Also, by only paying part of the amount, it gives the company more incentive to deliver and reduces the amount someone will have to try and recover if the company fails to do so. From the companies POV, the deposit makes it much less likely you will change your mind and refuse delivery of the future. In fact often rather then requiring full payment regardless of you changing your mind, you will simply forfeit the deposit if you cancel before delivery or fulfillment. (Of course this will depend on the agreement and there will generally be nothing stopping a company requiring the full amount even if you change your mind provided they were otherwise able to fulfill their part of the agreement. And in some cases, depending on things like the reason for cancellation, the time frames involved etc, they may give you back some or even all of the deposit.)
 * As for the 'quote' part, IMO, you and JackofOz are reading the thing as more complex then it is. Basically, all the company is saying is that you only have a quotation for the price and terms. There may or may not be some implication that the quoted price will be guaranteed for a set period of time, but what you do not have is a contract or agreement with the company to deliver. To get that, you will need to accept the quote which in this case involves signing the agreement and paying them the required deposit. If you do not do so, don't try and call the company just before the event and demand they deliver. You obviously do not have a bill, if you did you couldn't just change your mind which you can clearly do so for a quote like this.
 * While I can't comment on what went on between you and the other vendors, I presume they did in fact give you a quote, even if it was just over the phone or email or perhaps by info on their website and less formal. I doubt you handed over a blank cheque. Ultimately if someone tells you the price you will have to pay, they've basically given you a quote even if they didn't use those words. (The only likely other possibility is if they say it may cost X but will depend on the actual job, in which case what you have is an estimate not a quote. Note of course, sometimes you may be quoted an hourly rate etc rather than a fixed price.)
 * Now some companies particularly smaller ones and self employed contractors may require full payment up front, this may have happened with the other vendors but it doesn't imply they didn't give you a quotation on the price, unless as I said you handed over a blank cheque or perhaps they only gave an estimate (but in that case you couldn't have given full payment). Note that in this case, it's very similar to what you have here, if you didn't pay the amount they required which is the full amount, your relationship with them will end with the quote, you can't call them just before the event and demand they deliver. But having paid the amount there's some agreement between the two of you that they will. (And similarly, if you want to cancel, that will depend on the agreement and time frame, they may give you nothing back, they may give you part back, they may give you all of it back. In some rare case they may even be able to ask for more.) Of course, some companies and self employed contractors, particularly those involved in the construction trade working with home owners and similar may require no deposit, you agreeing to the quote will often be enough with full payment due after the work is completed or perhaps in parts as the work progresses.
 * If the company only requires a deposit for now and the full amount later, most will be happy to accept the full amount now but as with most things in life, it's best to actually speak to the party concerned about it. (If this is very uncommon, even if they accept it, don't be surprised if they screw up and ask you to pay the full amount close to the 5 days just before and you need to contact them to clear it up.)
 * Similarly for the method of payment you will need to speak to the other party involved, although personally for what I presume is a resonably large amount I would never hand over the money to someone who I don't trust with my credit card. I would also note that if you do pay the rest of the payment about 5 days before and with a credit card, it'll be much easier to at least recover that part of the payment if they fail to deliver in many countries. (And if they ignore you close to the 5 day mark, just don't pay the rest and start looking for an alternative contractor urgently and deal with getting the deposit back later.)
 * Nil Einne (talk) 21:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * As is unfortunately too often the case with you, Nil Einne, TL:DR. Sorry to be blunt, but you have to learn to be a lot more concise, otherwise you're just wasting your time.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you're complaining about, Jack. I just skipped the advice in the thread and read the links and references. μηδείς (talk) 21:47, 19 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps true in some cases, but in this case there seems to be so much confusion all around, I didn't see much choice. E.g. You calling it a bill without explanation on how to accept the quote when it clearly was not a bill and even from the limited info provided, the OP was given reasonably clear instructions on how to accept the quote (pay a 50% deposit and sign the quote). Or the OP saying they did not receive a quote from the other vendors when I doubt they just handed over a blank cheque. One of the key points, I'm not even sure why it's so confusing, it's not something I've dealt with much and I have no business experience, yet most of this stuff seems logical and simple to understand, even with the small number of basic scenarios I've outlined. P.S. In retrospect, I may have misunderstood the comment on musicians and caterer. My assumption was the OP meant they had paid in full. However it's possible the OP meant they didn't pay anything yet and will only be billed after the gig. Even so, I'm surprised if the OP didn't seek a quote (at least an hourly rate) or estimate before agreeing to use their services and so has no idea how much they may be charged, but to each their own.... I won't bother rewording my earlier comments, the good news is I did more or less cover these possibilities already. Nil Einne (talk) 23:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC)