Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 December 12

= December 12 =

Cast iron in a dish washer
What would likely happen if I were to clean one of my cast iron frying pans in my dishwasher? I'm guessing that I'd have to re-season the pan but would there be anything else wrong with it? Could the cast iron possibly crack?

Please note, I'm not asking for any health, financial, or legal advice. Dismas |(talk) 00:43, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * "Cast iron is likely to rust in a dishwasher" says dishwasher, but without citing a source. Card Zero  (talk) 00:50, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Dear god, please don't. Anything that needs to be cleaned off can be done with a scrub brush and some elbow grease. A little vegetable oil can also be used to loosen any particles, and kosher salt makes a really good abrasive. Many instructions recommend vegetable oil and kosher salt and a sponge. Soap should NEVER touch a cast-iron cooking vessel, and a diswasher is probably way too harsh. You'd likely ruin it in the dishwasher; cast iron can rust rather quickly in the hot, soapy conditions in a dishwasher. If you must use soap because nothing else works, consider a) buying a new one, because you may need to anyways or b) if you must use soap, HAND WASH the dish, dry thoroughly and immediately, and reseason the pan immediately. See for some tips. If you google search "Cleaning a cast iron skillet" you'll get plenty of tips; if you also add the words "In a dishwasher" you'll get plenty of real world stories of people who did that, and then promptly had to buy a new one. -- Jayron  32  00:53, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have said that I do not plan on doing this. I'm well versed in how to clean cast iron and take care of it. It was just a curiosity. Dismas |(talk) 01:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I've done it. So long as you don't end up with a puddle of standing water in it, and quickly remove it and re-apply oil to it after, it works out fine. I agree that hand-washing is better, but if you don't have time to hand-wash it right after use, and it's already wet (say you just sauteed some veggies), then you sure don't want to leave it wet or soak it in detergent, so a dishwasher is a good alternative. StuRat (talk) 03:36, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I have a cast iron skillet which has been in use in my parents' house and then mine for well over 50 years, with regular washing in the sink. It has a black coating of seasoning inside and out and no rust, The Lodge Company says "Hand wash, dry immediately, coat with vegetable oil." Edison (talk) 21:16, 14 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Nobody is arguing that this is the "proper method", just debating whether an occasional run through the dishwasher will destroy it. StuRat (talk)


 * It wouldn't crack - that's more of a heat shock issue. If you're at the point where you're going to throw it in the dishwasher, I recommend taking a brillo pad (soapy steel wool) to it and then reseasoning instead. That should cut through whatever mess is on it (along with the seasonging), and also gives you full control over the process. You also won't have to worry about it rusting because you forgot to pull it out of the dishwasher immediately. K ati e R  (talk) 13:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Symbol of Romance
(This is probably too subjective, but here it goes…)

What symbols, if any, are most closely associated with the Romance languages or Romance peoples? --66.190.69.246 (talk) 10:27, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if there are any universal "symbols", though they share common roots in latin, culturally people like the French, Romanians, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, etc. are fairly distinct. The French national symbols include things like the Fleur de Lys and Marianne, while Italy has the Stella d’Italia and the Italia turrita.  If you go back far enough, the only common symbols of Romance cultures would be those of the Roman Empire itself, like SPQR and the Aquila, but those sorts of symbols have not carried down through the ages, and really don't represent any of the modern Romance cultures, and certainly don't do so across all such peoples.  -- Jayron  32  11:56, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * As Jayron says, there is no commonly accepted symbol. You could possibly invent one that might work as an icon based on one or more elements from Romanesque architecture, whose area of greatest development was in the western Romance-speaking region (though not Romania).  Marco polo (talk) 19:25, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

06 SMART CAR
WORKING ON A FORTWO DIESEL, WHERE IS THE BATTERY? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.5.231 (talk) 15:12, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I did some Googling and the closest i got was "beside the intercooler". Does that help at all? Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 15:15, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you'll find the battery under the floor in the passenger footwell: http://owners.smartusa.com/Battery.aspx - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:26, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Bravo Mike! All i found was that quote and a (different) guide to changing the battery, which wasn't too informative. More interestingly, you can buy these things in the US? They're tiny in the UK, let alone in the land of Hummers and pickups...Nice work ツ Jenova   20  (email) 15:33, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Seems so. Apparently unofficial imports started in 2006, with Mercedes bringing them in officially from 2008. God knows why though. I drove one once and the transmission was the worst I have ever come across - slow, jerky, noisy and ridiculously complicated. Smart it was not. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:39, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Don't let stereotypes fool you. We've had Minis over here in the US for at least a decade I think.  We also have Smarts and Fiats 500s.  And small Hondas have been some of the best selling cars for decades as well.  Dismas |(talk) 15:43, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm rather fond of mini cars, as they barely dent my grill when I run them off the road. :-) StuRat (talk) 16:15, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * MINI's (note capital letters, denoting the BMW "remake" of the car) arrived in the USA in 2001. However the "classic" Mini (lowercase, traditionally denoting the pre-2000 car made by several British car companies) was here in the USA in 1960 through 1967 when 10,000 of them were sold here before a federal minimum bumper height restriction curtailed sales here.  StuRat might have trouble catching my MINI - so the issue of what would hypothetically happen to his grille is unimportant.  However, stereotypes do apply here.  When I got my first modern MINI in 2001, people would stop me in the streets to ask about this incredibly microscopic car - for the first year I owned it, I'd get asked about it at least once a day!   Nowadays, nobody bats an eyelid at my 2012 MINI.  However, my 1963 classic Mini (which is CONSIDERABLY smaller than the modern version) draws crowds wherever it goes and most people guess it's some kind of experimental electric car or something!  SteveBaker (talk) 18:05, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I sold a guy a headlamp once, and while the box wasn't that big, he had to put it in the front of his Smart Car as the boot (trunk to American readers) space is non-existent. I suppose that's the trade off for lower petrol/diesel (gas to Americans) prices. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 16:40, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The Smart Car that they sell here in the USA gets worse fuel economy than the entry-level MINI - and it's more expensive, smaller, slower, less safe and has a worse resale value. I don't know how they sell any! SteveBaker (talk) 18:05, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The best MINI gets 32 combined MPG while the Smart gets 36. But I can't imagine taking a Smart on the freeway. 75.41.109.190 (talk) 23:44, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
 * (Trying to get back on-topic here!)  Modern cars have much smaller batteries than they did even 5 years ago - and because they need so little servicing, they are getting tucked away in ever stranger places.   However, there is precedent for even full-sized batteries being put in weird places in smaller cars.  The original VW bug has it under the back seat - the classic Mini and older models of the modern one have it in the trunk.   On a diesel car where it's not powering spark plugs and other ignition components, it can be even smaller and yet more deviously hidden!   The only reason most people need to find the battery is if it's failed - and it's worth noting that getting (or giving) "jump starts" usually doesn't require access to the battery because modern cars have terminals specially provided for that purpose under the hood - not necessarily anywhere near the actual battery.  If you have those, you should use them rather than the actual battery terminals because they'll probably have fuzes and such to protect the car electronics in the event of you shorting out the jump leads or connecting them backwards or something.  SteveBaker (talk) 18:05, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * A bit old but...I was told a few months back by a customer (i work with car parts) that modern cars aren't jump-started since it tends to blow up the ECU and cause massive internal damage and repair bills.
 * A lot of this could be posturing for a discount from me, but i have no reason not to believe that it's true with all the computers inside modern cars. Thanks ツ Jenova   20  (email) 09:46, 16 December 2013 (UTC)