Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 January 20

= January 20 =

Natural horn
What's the (written) range of a natural horn? Double sharp (talk) 02:13, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm a bit confused by this Q. By "natural horn" do you mean a horn carved from a ram's horn, or some other material ?  If so, each will have a different range of frequencies it can produce. StuRat (talk) 02:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * See the Natural horn article. :-) Double sharp (talk) 02:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yup: StuRat, see Natural horn: "The natural horn is a musical instrument that is the ancestor of the modern-day horn, and is differentiated by its lack of valves". I don't think our article provides the answer though - it may depend on whether you include notes available by switching crooks. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:30, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * What's the range available without switching crooks, then? (And what about with?) Haydn 31 has a written D6 (played as E4), which should be somewhere near the highest note. Double sharp (talk) 02:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * That's Symphony No. 31 (Haydn) for those not in the know (which included me until the penny dropped. I was thinking maybe he wrote 31 horn concertos, but that felt a little extreme.) -- Jack of Oz  [Talk]  08:19, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's what I understand after browsing through natural horn and some of the links at the end. Please consider checking this out further yourself.


 * The natural horn is available in multiple lengths. On some horns, you can change the length using crooks. The length determines the lowest note the horn can play and the "key" of notes that are easiest to play. The music notation should indicate the lowest note or "key" of the horn. For example, the notation in Symphony No. 31 (Haydn) shows "Hoorn in D". The footnote explains the lowest note of the horn is transposed to a C in its written notation. My understanding of instrument transposition is that when it is used, the sounding key of the instrument is always transposed to the written key of C.


 * On a natural horn, the easiest notes to play are the harmonic series of the lowest note. Other notes between the harmonic series notes are achieved by positioning a hand in the bell. The Natural Horn and Its Technique shows notation of the harmonic series, "the pitches that one may sound on an open tube", with the lowest note as (scientific pitch notation) C2 and the highest note C6. Based on that notation, I suspect that no matter what key of natural horn is used, the written range is C2 to C6. A Google search for natural horn range found The Natural Horn Today from Composition:Today which shows the same written range.


 * Older notation might use a different starting octave. Heinrich Domnich and the Natural Horn says "NOTE: Old notation, used by Classical composers and most composers of the period, notated horn pitches in bass clef an octave too low. New notation, utilized by Domnich, is commonly associated with twentieth century composers".
 * --Bavi H (talk) 15:54, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * In that case, then why did Haydn write the D6? Double sharp (talk) 12:03, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * A Google search for natural horn range Haydn 31 found Re-inventing the Classical Horn which says


 * Many of us who perform with period instrument groups on the classical horn play instruments that have been copied from examples made in the early 19th century[...]. The 19th century classical horn was designed to play effectively in the 19th century orchestra, at a time when the range from the top of the staff up to the 16th partial and beyond were no longer used regularly[...].


 * and


 * In this period after 1750, [...] composers such as [...] Hadyn [...] still asked horn players to play often in the clarino range above the staff, sometimes into a range that seems excessive for us as modern players. The early 19th century horn that many players have been playing as their classical instrument, can be difficult in this range, and upon examining the types of instruments actually in use at the time, the mid 18th century horn was quite a different instrument, and was much better suited to this range than the larger later instruments.


 * The 16th partial is the notated C6, and I guess "top of the staff" means the top line of the treble clef staff (F6). These statements suggest the natural horns often used today are difficult to play above notated C6, but natural horns used in Haydn's time were less difficult to play above notated C6. --Bavi H (talk) 02:14, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

for digging borewell
i want to dig a borewell...could you please suggest some methods for the accurate detection of water inside the earth ????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.67.149.213 (talk) 07:09, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Usually - by digging a borehole. Maybe by ground-penetrating radar or reflection seismology. Not by dowsing. Rmhermen (talk) 13:40, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Ask neighbours how deep their wells are, or ask a well drilling company to make an estimate for you using geological maps. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:21, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, and specifically ask how low the water table is in your area. StuRat (talk) 05:21, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * And of course, depending upon what country you are in, you may need permission from your local water authority before you can extract water from the water table. -- SGBailey (talk) 22:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Flavorful peppers (very subjective, unscientific question)
There is a Scoville scale that measures the hotness of peppers. But here is a question: do only the hotness go up in peppers, or do the flavor also go up as you travel up the Scoville scale? Could this even rise faster than the hotness? For example, could you get more flavor in your food by adding a little bit of Habanero instead of a lot of Jalapeno? I always believed that the really hot peppers pretty much just have burn and no flavor. Are there ones that are recommended for a nice chili flavor? 105.236.57.198 (talk) 08:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC) Eon


 * Different chilies do have different flavours. Experiment and you'll find ones you like. I've been known to use 3 different types of chili in one dish to get different effects. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:45, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know the direct answer to your question, but I suspect that there's no particular reason for the amount of capsaicin in a pepper to vary at exactly the same rate as the other flavour compounds. What I wanted to note, however, is that both the flavour and heat of even a single pepper can be modified to a great degree by actions such as removing the inner membrane (which reduces the heat) and cooking/smoking (which alters and ups the flavour); even the size of the pieces plays an important role. In practice, you can take whatever pepper you enjoy the flavour of and dial the heat/flavour ratio to what you want. If you enjoy habanero, but don't like the amount of heat, remove the seeds and membranes, chop it into relatively large pieces, and singe or smoke the pieces. Matt Deres (talk) 16:24, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * In my experience, chilies absolutely do have different flavors aside from the pepper itself. I find habeneros to have the best "depth of flavor", being complex besides just being hot.  The heat can be overwhelming, but under the heat is much broader a flavor profile than other peppers.  I find the smaller green peppers like serrano peppers to be very bright and fruity (again, outside the heat) flavored, almost like an apple.  Jalepenos, rather ubiquitous peppers in americanized Mexican foods, I find rather bland and uninspiring; they aren't even that hot, and they don't bring much other than their heat.  Chipotle peppers, the smoked version of Jalepenos, I love however, so it does matter how you treat the fruit in terms of what you get out of it.  Pepperoncinis are crisp and clean.  It goes on.  Chili peppers are very diverse and very different in their flavor profiles.  -- Jayron  32  18:17, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * With serranos you have to be careful to use only the ripe (orange) ones. The green (unripe) ones don't taste like much except of that unpleasant "plant" taste that green bell peppers also have.


 * Habaneros are nice for their sweetness, but even better are Scotch Bonnets, which look a little like a habanero with extra curves, and red instead of orange. I can't find them locally, since I moved to California.  In Texas and in Toronto they were easy to find. --Trovatore (talk) 19:17, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed, even if - as in the case of the habanero - it's like trying to admire the colour of a jet while standing directly in front of the engine exhaust... Matt Deres (talk) 22:13, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Note that some peppers with little or no heat whatsoever still have flavor, like (green, red, orange, purple, or yellow) bell peppers or sweet Italian peppers. StuRat (talk) 05:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I suppose you can call what green bells taste like a "flavor", if you want to. Dirt-flavored is a flavor, I guess. --Trovatore (talk) 05:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Green Bell Peppers have one purpose: in a sofrito or other general vegetable medley where the flavor will be cooked down and you aren't interested in the individual flavor.  If I'm interested in the flavor of the bell pepper itself, Red bell peppers are the only way to go.  If I'm going to cook the bejezus out of it, I'll use green ones, but if it's to be eaten raw or quick cooked (like a stir-fry), then you should go with red.  If you want a mild, large, green pepper which tastes good, go with a poblano instead.  -- Jayron  32  05:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think you're washing your green bell pepper properly, if it tastes like dirt. Mine never do. StuRat (talk) 05:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * You understand that the reason they're green is that they're not ripe, right? If you let them get ripe they would turn some other color (usually red), and taste much much much better.  Of course you're entitled to your own preferences, but mine are that I don't like unripe fruit (even vegetabley fruit).  --Trovatore (talk) 06:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)


 * So no fried green tomatoes, then ? In any case, "unripe" and "dirt" are not the same thing. StuRat (talk) 07:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Food labelling
If "protein powders" are added to, say, beefburgers, for sale in the EU, what has to appear on the label? Ought the label to indicate whether the protein is of animal or vegetable origin? Itsmejudith (talk) 17:04, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * According to one of the news stories in the week, they come under the heading of "seasoning"...! But I'm sure someone with better google-fu than I will be able to trace the real answer for you. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:16, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Tesco has been using the same catering company for years, so apparently it's been going on for donkey's. If you are vegetarian, I think that's fine. Horses for courses, as they say. :) KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:10, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you're put off by the horse burgers, have you tried Tesco's meatballs? I heard they're the dog's bol**cks..... gaz  hiley  16:07, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've read all the jokes that have been trotted out. Any food industry experts in the house? Itsmejudith (talk) 17:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * http://ec.europa.eu/food/food/labellingnutrition/foodlabelling/index_en.htm doesn't say much, but it might help. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK)

Workers' Party of Korea
The article Workers' Party of Korea states:
 * Membership of the WPK is essential for any DPRK citizen who aspires to a post of any seniority in any government, management, educational or cultural institution, since all these bodies act as "conveyor belts" for party rule over all aspects of DPRK life and effectively creates a nomenklatura within society. All senior military officers must also be WPK members.

How does a DPRK citizen generally become a member of the Workers' Party? Is it an option available for all citizens or only for the elite? J I P &#124; Talk 20:02, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

13 in the design of the dollar bill
what is the significance of 13 (13 stripes, 13 arrows, 13 stars, 13 levels of the pyramids etc...) in the design of the dollar bill? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.225.137 (talk) 20:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * interwebs seems to think it is 13 original colonies nonsense ferret  20:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * (ec)There's a number of mystic interpretation to the number 13 (see thirteen), but for the US dollar bill, the most likely reason (in addition to the possible mystic connotations) is the Thirteen Colonies, aka the thirteen states that founded the United States. -- 71.35.98.191 (talk) 20:40, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's in your flag too (the red and white bit). Alansplodge (talk) 23:49, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
 * They always used to tell us that the 13's had to do with the 13 states. A tipoff is the flag that flew over Fort McHenry, which had 15 stars and 15 stripes. After that they reverted the stripes to 13 and kept it there. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:23, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * As usual, we have an article on the United States one-dollar bill. The devices you note are part of the Great Seal of the United States, and the article includes a section on the symbolism of items numbering thirteen to honor the original thirteen states. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 01:35, 21 January 2013 (UTC)