Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 January 3

= January 3 =

Statues of seated figures
Does anyone know where these statues can be found? I found this image at random on the internet with no other information. Tineye returns no results. Thanks, --Viennese Waltz 10:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like the Men at Sea. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/little_frank/6150427144/. Staecker (talk) 12:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. --Viennese Waltz 12:42, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

parking permit
who do I apply to for a disabled parking permit I have emphysema — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.52.229 (talk) 12:29, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Try your city's website, or your state's DMV. Very sorry to hear of your condition and I hope it improves.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * If you're in the UK (I think you are from your IP address) you can apply for a blue badge using this site. Andrew Gray (talk) 12:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * or directly from the offices of the local authority, as it's the local council (rather than the DVLA or the DoH) that issues blue permits. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 16:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, my understanding is that gov.uk is trying to act as an intermediary to save people hunting around looking for their council's own site. I doubt there's any practical difference between the two methods. Andrew Gray (talk) 17:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Energy saving bulbs and timers
According to my local supermarket, EU legislation has prohibited the sale of incandesent light bulbs. All I can buy now are various energy salving bulbs. However, all the bulbs state on the packaging that the bulbs cannot be used with timers. Strangely, the supermarket also sells plug-in timers which state they should not be used with energy saving bulbs. Why can't energy saving bulbs be used with timers? The timer I have is a simple mechanical timer (no sensitive electronics here) where moveable pegs on the rim of the clock move a switch - a bit like this one. How is this kind of switching any different from my finger operating the normal light switch on the wall? Astronaut (talk) 16:03, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The "use with timers..." section of compact fluorescent lamp covers this; the issue is with some electronic timers, not mechanical ones. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 16:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree - and if you are concerned, get an LED lamp rather than CFL. They cost quite a bit more - but they last longer, use less electricity and are even safer when disposed of...even compared to a long-lasting, energy-efficient CFL!  CFL's have an issue with small trickles of current flowing through an electronic timer, even when it's "off".  So either use an LED lamp or a mechanical timer. SteveBaker (talk) 17:50, 3 January 2013 (UTC)


 * You could use a halogen lamp. They work with timers and dimmers, and while the energy savings are less, they are cheaper than LED and CFL lights. Sjö (talk) 10:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp - aren't they also prohibited by the EU? SteveBaker (talk) 18:00, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Not yet; the regulation limited the sale of conventional filament incandescents, but for now leaves halogens (mounted in screw and bayonet fittings for regular domestic lighting appliances) in the clear (the theory being that they're still about 30% more efficient than the old kind). As phase-out of incandescent light bulbs notes, the plan (but not yet I think a concrete commitment) is to phase these out by 2016. Right now it's hard to find a CF with a light output > an old 100W bulb, so halogens are selling into this market. Presumably they're thinking that LEDs will be price competitive with CF by 2016. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:15, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * What the regulation really does is not limit any specific technology technology, but instead it specifies the minimum efficiency class that may be sold. Right now that's class C (see European Union energy label) with the plan to push that to B in 2016 (that article has a better ref showing that's the intention). C really isn't that ambitious a standard. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Though, as Finlay said, there is no problem in using CFLs with your mechanical timer. You can still buy incandescent light bulbs for "special purposes", but these tend to be more expensive than the old ones (of which I have a stock).    D b f i r s   17:05, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In the US, I bought a good supply of filament incandescent 100w bulbs in July 2011. Nothing against the environment, mind you, but I'm quite happy to use a proven, inexpensive item until the new technology settles down.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * You really should do a little basic research before you go out and do things like that. Incandescents are not "inexpensive"!  CFL's have been commonly available since 1996 - so they are hardly "unproven"!  According to multiple studies, in round figures, a 50 cent 60 watt incandescent has an average life of 1,000 hours - a $3.50 CFL of equivalent brightness lasts 10,000 hours - so the cost per hour of life is just 70% of an incandescent.  Add in the inconvenience and effort to change the bulb when it blows and CFL's are a clear win, based only on their cost.  Add in the cost of electricity during the life of the bulb (60 watts versus 15 watts) and your global-warming-inducing incandescents are costing you about $40 each more than CFL's over 10,000 hours...a ridiculous waste of money as well as helping to trash our planet.  You could perhaps claim "opportunity cost" in the initial higher investment in CFL's as a reason not to get them - but you blow away even that tenuous grip by stockpiling incandescents - thereby incurring the opportunity cost anyway!  IMHO, the LED bulbs are now dropping sufficiently in price that I've probably bought my last CFL too. SteveBaker (talk) 06:03, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Steve on the LED option, though they are still a bit expensive for my pocket. I do also have a stock of CFLs and I use them in some places, but I'm not happy with their performance.  In my experience, they seldom last 10,000 hours, they give less light than they claim, and they don't work well in rooms without central heating.  In colder climates, incandescent bulbs provide the additional benefit of some background heating.  I suppose it is really a matter of choosing the best technology for the specific situation.    D b f i r s   09:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)