Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 July 18

= July 18 =

MS&NF
I Would Like To Know if Ms&NF are related .I have both and loosing my eye sight, I  live in the United States.West  Warwick Rhode Island. I — Preceding unsigned comment added by EFH58 (talk • contribs) 17:58, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, we cannot answer questions seeking medical advice or diagnosis. You may wish to talk to a medical professional. uhhlive (talk) 20:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Hospital
What's the best and better known hospital in Dublin? Where rich people go.  Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 19:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey!! This is not asking for medical Advice... I am asking about a building.   Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 20:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, my bad, I messed up the template. I totally fixed it! uhhlive (talk) 20:16, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. I thought I was being banned again :P  Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 20:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I understood they have excellent free medical care in Cuba? In any case, we can't give an opinion as to the best hospital in a specific area. μηδείς (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Medical care is great here.  Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 14:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm not too sure how we can answer this. There is List of hospitals in Ireland, which includes a section on Dublin. Possibly the most 'well-known' hospital in Dublin is the Mater Misericordiae University Hospital ('the Mater'), but this is a public hospital (albeit with a private hospital on the same grounds). As to where rich people go for treatment, this will depend on what they are being treated for and where in Dublin they live. If you have a particular rich person in mind we might be able to find a news story about their hospitalisation, but otherwise I don't think we can generalise for all rich Dubliners. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 20:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Cucumber Mike... not looking for a particular person. I am writting a story. I have a rich and famous man who has a house in County Dublin. He has a car accident and I was wondering which's the best hospital?   Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 14:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * In a car accident, the ambulance or care-flight helicopter is likely to take anyone, regardless of personal wealth, to the nearest suitable hospital. In the past, this has applied even to royalty and presidents.  When I was in a car wreck a few years ago, the ambulance didn't even ask me where I wanted to be taken (not that I was in much of a condition to consider such a question!)  Only much later, once stabilized and during convalescence would it be considered wise to relocate them to some fancier place...and once the basic trauma care is dealt with, a hospital almost anywhere in the world might be appropriate for someone with a personal jet and the money to pay for in-flight nursing care. SteveBaker (talk) 14:21, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sweet!! SteveBaker, so he could be taken into any hospital and then re-located... Cool! Thanks! Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 14:39, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If he's crazy-rich then he could even have a suitable room set up in his own home with a staff of doctors and nurses on hand to look after his every need. SteveBaker (talk) 15:19, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think he's that crazy lol, SteveBaker... he was having some argument with his ex cuz she thought his new gfriend was not good enough to meet his kids (the ma'am is over-reacting)... and then boom!-car accident- and then... coma :'( He doesn't have time to think about a suitable room. Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 15:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Crazy aqui quiere decir 'muy'. μηδείς (talk) 19:14, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, entiendo μηδείς. Gracias por la explicación. Well, he is crazy-rich.   Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 19:23, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Concierge medicine. μηδείς (talk) 19:27, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * μηδείς, but he had a car accident, how does his Concierge medicine is going to help him?   Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 19:37, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I was simply naming the concept that SteveBaker was alluding to, not making any plot suggestions. I suggest you read Stranger in a Strange Land. μηδείς (talk) 19:54, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * μηδείς I will look for it and will surely read it. Does it have something to do with my question?   Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 20:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Not Dublin, no. But possibly everything else. μηδείς (talk) 20:21, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool, I will look for it. So, is it about a rich man who falls in love with a younger girl and his ex oppose it?? BTW that's the same name of a U2 song.  Miss Bono  [zootalk] ☆ 20:24, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The plot is too much to summarize, I am sure the article gives an idea. It is about a very rich old man who adopts a human orphan who has been raised by martians and who has to teach him human ways, including complicated love triangles. It's considered a classic and is commonly assigned reading in high schools. (It's on a fully adult level.) μηδείς (talk) 00:31, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Having read our article, it fails to summarize the human aspect of the plot entirely. The story is Romantic in the sense of Victor Hugo. The science fiction aspect is very minor--you could rewrite the novel changing about 10 pages of material and leave the story the same with the martians removed.  Perhaps someone else can recommend a better review of the novel than our article. μηδείς (talk) 02:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, that makes sense. In the case of your story, as Steve said above, the ambulance will always take a patient to the closest A&E department. This makes sense if you think about it - someone unconscious from a car crash is hardly likely to be making decisions about which hospital they prefer best.
 * So: in order to best answer your question, I think we need to know where the crash happens. By the way, some terminology for you, since I notice you used the phrase 'County Dublin' above: County Dublin is the name for the traditional county in which the city of Dublin is located, in the province of Leinster on Ireland's east coast. However, the county no longer exists as an administrative unit. In 1994, power was redistributed to three entities, Fingal County Council, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and South Dublin County Council (the government of Dublin itself had already been transferred to a body then known as Dublin Corporation and now known as Dublin City Council). County Dublin now exists only in addresses of premises in the three areas outside the Dublin postal districts and as a term used by those living in the city to refer to areas outside of the city but within the former County Dublin area (e.g. Swords, Dublin; Malahide; Rathcoole, Dublin). So, if you set your story in 'County Dublin', those living in Ireland will assume that it is set either outside the city itself, or before 1994. Hope this helps. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 08:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Cucumber... The car crash occurs somewhere between Dublin Airport and Dalkey. And thanks for the information about County Dublin.   Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:48, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi again Miss B. That's a fair drive (at least in Irish terms) - about 26km and 30 mins or more depending on traffic. The route would most likely take the driver out of the airport onto the M1 and then through the Port Tunnel (toll €3 after 10am or €10 between 7am and 10am). From there I would cross the River Liffey on the East Link Bridge and take the coast road passing through Ringsend, Sandymount, Booterstown, Blackrock and Dun Laoghaire before reaching Dalkey.
 * If the accident happens on the Northside (north of the Liffey), I would suggest the Mater (see above) would be the most likely A&E department for the patient to be taken to. A possible bit of added excitement, should your story need it, would be if the accident happened in the Port Tunnel, which would mean that the tunnel would be closed whilst the rescue operation was in progress. Once the car reaches the Southside (south of the Liffey) the most likely might be St. Vincent's University Hospital.
 * Oh, and you can call me Mike :-) - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:09, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Wao! Thanks, Mike! I appreciate the time you took to answer my question. I am definitely going to make some changes to the story to add some excitement by placing the accident in the Port Tunnel.
 * I have another question, what about if the character is a world famous musician, how would be that press thing? How fast it is going to be on the news.... stuffs like that. And, you can call me Laura.  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  15:42, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Escape from Harleysville (LOL)
I live in Sacramento, California, and am trying desperately to move. One reason is because of the number of Harleys in the county; I am very sensitive to noise, easily depressed and have issues with anger management. Yet I have been unable to find any literature on what cities have the most and least of them. Is it possible to find out? Or can you answer directly? Theskinnytypist (talk) 22:04, 18 July 2013 (UTC)


 * You're going to have to be a lot more specific. There must be many tiny places with no motorbikes of any kind.  How about the Pitcairn Islands for example.  They have a handful of quad-bikes - but aside from that, no motor vehicles of any kind and only one road (which is 4 miles long and easily avoided!).  For additional peace and quiet, there are no crying babies because only two of them have been born there in the last 30 years and the youngest is now a teenager.


 * If you google for "US city with most motorbikes", you'll find several discussion of the places to avoid. Here for example is a list of the top 101 cities where people take a motorbike to get to work...that ought to correlate pretty well to the places with the most Harleys.  One thing that's clear from that list is that you're going to need to be as far as possible from any military bases...they seem to be hot-beds of motorbike fanatics.  But I couldn't find a direct reference for the place with the least motorbikes.  While you might find that information out there somehow - I very much doubt that there are good public records to tell you the manufacturer of whatever bikes there are.


 * Realistically, if you're sensitive to noise, you should be looking for the city with the least noise pollution rather than focussing on just one specific source of noise. This page  says that Hartford CT, Cheyenn WY, Cincinnati OH, Modesta CA, Riverside CA, Yonkers NY, Anaheim CA,  Lincoln NE DesMoines IA and Madison WI are the ten quietest cities in the USA.   Since you are a Californian already - perhaps Modesta is the place for you?  Avoid Oakland (Second loudest city in USA) and San Francisco (8th loudest) like the plague since they are both far noisier than Sacremento (32nd loudest).

SteveBaker (talk) 04:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * One thing to keep in mind is that motorbikes are largely seasonal in places that have an actual winter (unlike Sacramento). In large parts of Canada, they are in effect illegal to drive in winter months because proper snow tires do not exist for them. There is likely a similar situation in a good part of the northern U.S. --Xuxl (talk) 07:33, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * There are all sorts of retirement communities. Just stay away from Charming, California. μηδείς (talk) 17:03, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Solo Martial Arts (Wing Chun and Krav Maga)
Hello there, I want to learn solo martial art. So far, after bit research, I have come up with this two effective and efficient martial arts - Wing Chun and Krav Maga. Both of them are not taught in our country. But I want to learn them anyway. It's my long term desire. I have found books on Wing Chun and Krav Maga in Amazon.com and Banres and Noble - Wing chun compendium vol. 1 and 2 and Krav Maga by Darren Levine. I want to know whether they are appropriate for solo training. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thank you--180.234.37.224 (talk) 23:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly, it doesn't look like anyone here has an answer for you. I can't answer your question either - but maybe I can help you with other places to look.  I don't know whether it helps - but we have articles for both Wing Chun and Krav Maga...each article has over a dozen references to books, articles and web sites on the topic - which should make good reading - and may turn up something you couldn't find on Amazon.  But there is nothing so good as talking directly to someone with experience in those sports.  So you might also look at the "history" tabs for those two articles and send personal messages on the "Talk:" pages here on Wikipedia to the most prolific editors of those articles (some of them may also allow you to email them using the "Email this user" link to the left of their user page.  It's highly likely that people who take the trouble to edit articles on such obscure topics are knowledgeable enthusiasts of those arts.  Ideally, you should probably try to track down an online forum where the people who do those things hang out - I'm sure that's the best possible way to get your question answered.  SteveBaker (talk) 14:13, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh no :(--180.234.71.55 (talk) 16:52, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that there are many "effective and efficient" martial arts apart from Wing Chun and Krav Maga, including some indigenous to the Indian Subcontinent such as Kalaripayattu. But if you feel those other two suit you, fine. I do not recommend trying to learn them from a book if you have other sources. You can pick up some techniques especially if you have training already, but if you perform them incorrectly-hard to determine on your own-you may injure yourself. N.b Though I cannot prove it I have extensive martial arts experience, including as an instructor. 220  of  Borg 08:11, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Lack of side dishes in English cooking
Hi. I have been wondering about this for a while now. There seems to be a distinct lack of side orders in English cooking. Take for example simple things like pasta: almost every country has its regional variation of pasta, the Italians have loads, the Chinese have ramen, the Africans have couscous, the Germans have Spätzle etc etc. Then we have the potato: the French have french fries and duchesse potatoes and croquettes, the Germans have Bratkartoffeln etc etc. You get the picture. What I am asking is, are there any proper English side orders? So far I have found roast potatoes and yorkshire puddings, and that seems to be it. I'd be grateful for any help on the matter. --91.49.29.177 (talk) 23:55, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The idea of having to order extra food served on a side plate is a bit odd and foreign to us Britons. Roast dinners are said to come with "all the trimmings" in one great edifice; that may include one or more varieties of stuffing (with poultry), Yorkshire puddings and several types of cooked vegetables (two or three of carrots, swede, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, broccoli, peas, runner beans and so on). My Cornish grandmother used to serve roasted dumplings. However, the glory of British cooking is the pie, which Americans seem to have consigned to the desert trolley. We appear to have had chips here for about 150 years, and the notion that they originate from France (although maybe true) is likely to cause an argument, if not actual violence. Alansplodge (talk) 00:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that ramen isn't really Chinese and is incredibly new in any case. Chinese have a variety of noodle dishes with the concept itself long predating pasta, but often the noodles are an integral part of the dish and not a 'side' dish. In fact, looking at the other examples, I'm not even sure what you mean by side dish, as while these examples may sometimes be eaten as a side dish, they are often part and parcel of the dish. Nil Einne (talk) 03:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah - I'm not sure that the concept of "side dishes" is a standard part of any cuisine. It's a modern trend to order additional food that's not a part of the basic dish - but that seems to cut across all nationalities.  When you buy Fish and Chips (what could be more English?) it has always been the case that you could order a side of mushy peas or pickled onions or pickled eggs.  That's been the case since the 1950's to my certain knowledge.  I'm not sure that the premise of the question truly makes much sense. SteveBaker (talk) 03:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Everyone knows English cuisine is the world's worst. (Neat how I gave a link and snuck in a useless opinion?) μηδείς (talk) 03:29, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm - I suspect you've never spent much time in Holland - if it were not for the excellent Chinese restaurants in Amsterdam and the high nutritional value of the trappist monk beer, I think I might have starved to deatn. SteveBaker (talk) 03:43, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The relevant question then would be, do they have English-food restaurants in Holland? Frankly, there are plenty of places in the US called things like "the tavern" or "the pub" (my favorite place for birthday meals for four decades has been "The Pub") whose best meals are either beefsteak and baked potatoes or fish and chips with green beans or, if fancy, sparrow grass.  There's a reason the English are called Beefeaters and that while the English call them frogs, the French respond with the "insult" bistec. μηδείς (talk) 04:30, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of places to buy fish and chips in Amsterdam. I'm fairly certain that there are no Dutch restaurants in London. Alansplodge (talk) 07:22, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You underestimate the variety of restaurants in London! Google shows a few, though there seems to be a bit of a dessert focus. MChesterMC (talk) 08:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Or, indeed, rosbif. The Portuguese nickname for us really does translate as "steak", although I suspect (OR alert) it refers to the appearance of pale, pudgy English flesh after a couple of hours on a sunbed by the pool rather than our taste for slabs of dead cow, with or without a side order. -  Ka renjc 07:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The menu of your "The Pub" doesn't bear much resemblance to British pub food. I wish I hadn't learnt that a salt beef sandwich can be served with fries. That's the kind of "side dish" we can do without. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:20, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, the restaurant called "The Pub" really in no way resembles a pub. It has a huge open floor with a view of the grills.  I haven't been there recently, but the menu is is basically steak and seafood. μηδείς (talk) 16:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The steaks are probably better - and bigger - than most served in our pubs. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * We do have what's called "bar food" which is usually steak/burger/hot sandwich--enough to prevent a patron from leaving for a restaurant when he's hungry sitting at the bar. Still no French or ehnic food save maybe nachos. μηδείς (talk) 21:16, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * A sandwich and a plate of chips seems like totally fine pub food to me... Though they should be proper chips, not fries. MChesterMC (talk) 08:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Define "proper" chips. The Brits I've known refer to French fries as "chips". (The French, meanwhile, just call them "fries", as "French fries" would be redundant.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:07, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * See French fries: "North Americans refer to any elongated pieces of fried potatoes as fries, while in the United Kingdom, Australia, Ireland, and New Zealand, long, thinly cut slices of fried potatoes are sometimes called fries to distinguish them from the more thickly cut strips called chips". Gandalf61 (talk) 13:17, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ...and to finish off this oft-repeated set of distinctions so we can get it over with: Americans call thin-sliced fried potatoes "chips" while in the UK, we call them "crisps". How does this pertain to the OP's actual question? SteveBaker (talk) 13:59, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Aren't steak fries the same as British "chips"? They are what to expect in better restaurants (and "The Pub") when you see "fries" on the menu. μηδείς (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * They're closer, but not the same. British chips are (basically) square rather than rectangular in cross-section, and (in British pubs/restaurants, at least), steak fries are cooked for rather longer than chips, so they have the definite "crispy outside/fluffy inside" texture of (American) french fries.  British chips are far more homogenous in texture. Tevildo (talk) 20:35, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That sounds like home fries. μηδείς (talk) 01:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Without the skins, the description does match up. I've never eaten home fries - the next time I'm in the States, I'll have to try them.  Incidentally, the main image for the french fries article does _look_ like British chips (as opposed to what we'd call "french fries"), but without eating them I can't tell. :) Tevildo (talk) 22:58, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You'll be unlikely to find home fries offered in a restaurant, and if so, likely for breakfast only, and looking more like hash browns. My ex cooked home fries by putting potato slices in a covered pan with water and oil.  The water would boil away and then the oil would brown them.  It was African-American style. μηδείς (talk) 01:28, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well we have different kinds of chips in Britain these days and while someone might order them alongside a sandwich in a pub (a bit of salad and some crisps would be a better accompaniment), it was seeing them with a salt beef sandwich that surprised me. Salt beef on rye bread with the trimmings is a self-contained thing. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:55, 19 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The image labelled "home fries" are what we Brits would call sauté potatoes, whereas what Medeis has described is fondant potatoes. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

On the original question, I have always assumed the whole concept of a side order that's served on a different plate was invented by restaurants to give them an additional income stream. These days, you'll often get a small amount of meat piled many layers high in the centre of a plate that takes up 75% of the table, and then they charge you extra for anything additional, such as vegetables, salad, pasta ... served separately, even though there's a huge amount of vacant space still on the main plate. Such pretentiousness and venality will not go unpunished. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:18, 23 July 2013 (UTC)