Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 June 3

= June 3 =

Metal Repair
I have some metal tool, which I accidentally dropped on the floor. Now it has some very rough edge, where it looks like the polish went off and the grainy metal interior is visible. Is there a way to fix this and make it polished/shiny again? Should I use sandpaper? --helohe (talk)  00:02, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * No, that will just scratch it. But it's hard to give any sort of answer when your description is so indefinite.  Do you mean it has a blade that got dented, or what?  What sort of tool is it, and what part hit the floor? Looie496 (talk) 00:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree the we need more info. However, sandpaper might be the fix.  It comes in many grain sizes, the finest of which don't leave (visible) scratches.  However, if the damage is large, you would spend a lot of time hand polishing it.  In such a case, a grinding wheel might be more appropriate, or an orbital sander, if it's not a sharp part that was damaged.  There are places you can take tools to have them sharpened, like hardware stores, which might be able to help, if you lack the proper equipment. StuRat (talk) 07:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

UK Road Marking
Hi all,

Yesterday whilst driving along the A1 southbound, around Stevenage, I kept noticing single white horizontal lines on the road, in both lanes at the same time. I tried looking on Google Streetview for it, but I can't find them. They look like the wider lines in this image: UK Gatso Road Markings

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the wider white lines alone; the image is for illustration only. Any idea what the markings I describe are, please?

Rixxin (talk) 09:41, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Paint testing? (Serious suggestion.) HiLo48 (talk) 10:11, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I doubt it. They repeated in (what seemed to be) regular intervals.  My working guess is that they mark quarter or 1/8th miles, but I wanted to see if anyone knew for sure.  Rixxin (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * They use these to gauge speeds from 2 pictures taken by a speed camera - presumably they are a fixed distance apart. They put them on both sides so they can easily switch the camera to the other side (which I have seen done before). Google "speed camera markings" for some references. 80.254.147.164 (talk) 11:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * No, that's Gatso camera road markings, like in the linked image. What I saw looked like this:


 * ____________________________________ <Left edge of dual-carriageway road




 * - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  -  -  -  -   -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  <Lane marker of dual-carriageway road




 * ____________________________________ <Right edge of dual-carriageway road


 * There were no cameras around (no warning signs for cameras either!), and no bridges (I'm sure there are speed cameras on bridges) so it wouldn't make sense for it to be a speed trap. Rixxin (talk) 11:33, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Although if you just mean the wide lines, and are excluding the thinner ones, it could be they got rid of the thinner ones and left the wider ones. Although more likely is that they are to indicate how far you should be behind the car in front. Usually they use chevrons for this but I think I have seen lines used. How far apart were the lines? 80.254.147.164 (talk) 11:21, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I know the chevrons you mean, those are much more regular in occurrence than these mystery white lines. As I said above in another reply, they were perhaps 1/4 or 1/8 of a mile apart.  Rixxin (talk) 11:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * They could be marks for the police to use in timing a vehicle over a set distance - presumably in this case from an unmarked car following behind. The Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 5, section 22.34 (page 137) suggests that a square or circle of white paint in the centre of the lane is normally used, but section 22.37 says "Other markings may be used in association with speed cameras, at the highway authority's discretion. They enable the distance a vehicle has moved in the time interval between two photographs to be measured and hence the speed calculated. Such markings are not considered to be traffic signs and are not prescribed in the Regulations." Whether markings such as the ones you've seen could be used when not in association with speed cameras is unclear to me, but it sounds like the highway authority has discretion in the matter and can act on police recommendations. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:49, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The word 'horizontal' might be creating some confusion. If the lines are parallel to the traffic flow then they are probably 'delineation' lines. When you say horizontal do you mean parallel to the traffic flow?--Aspro (talk) 14:23, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Rixxin's diagram above shows that he means perpendicular to the trafic flow, so they look "horizontal" from the driver's viewpoint. The "A1 around Stevenage" is strictly speaking the A1(M), so motorway rules apply, in case that makes any difference. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:42, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * This site (near the bottom) suggests it is a calibration mark for a portable speed camera and also to gauge speeds without such equipment. 80.254.147.164 (talk) 14:51, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, those look like the rectangular markings shown in the document that Cucumber Mike linked to. There are a couple of what could be these that are 0.6 miles (1km?) apart, just south of Stevenage, at points A and B here. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have always understood those marking to be to help the police time a car over a known distance from a following patrol vehicle. They might well date from before the advent of automatic (Gatso) cameras.  The markings near Gatso cameras (called calibration lines in the article), need to be much closer together so the car is still within range of the camera and its two flashes, while the markings the OP is asking about are much further apart to give the police officer a chance to get a reasonable time with his stopwatch and provide reasonably accurate evidence of speeding.  Astronaut (talk) 17:34, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * It's most likely the VASCAR system. Alansplodge (talk) 19:01, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Good answers, all. I think this can be marked as "Answered". Thanks! Rixxin (talk) 07:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know if authorities monitor speed by aircraft in the UK, but in North America, lines such as those described by the OP are often designed for that purpose. A trailing patrol car can use its own speedometer to determine whether a car it is following is speeding, and by how much, but when watching from the air, marks on the roadway at known intervals are essential. --Xuxl (talk) 08:25, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do, as seen here in the Derbyshire Dales. I would suspect that it's more economical to use a helicopter in remote parts of the country, but that a car would be more budget friendly in built-up areas, such as around Stevenage. Nevertheless, you might well be right. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 08:44, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Rotating Seal
Why do seals rotate? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-wiHALV-Ck) Horatio Snickers (talk) 15:20, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * See Stereotypy (non-human). -- Jayron  32  15:24, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * They might be on the lookout for polar bears. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Ages
Why does young people tend to set their eyes on older people and (very often) in older people who are impossible for them. (e.g. a student has a crush on his High School teacher, a music fan loves her favourite singer like mad, a football fan girl falls for her favourite player...) It is already almost pattern ??  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  19:12, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * In common speech, this is known by the cliche puppy love. -- Jayron  32  01:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Puppy love is a crush between two underage people. What the OP has described is paedophilia from the minor's POV. μηδείς (talk) 03:01, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * " the term can also be used to describe the fondness of a child for an adult, for example, students being attracted to their teachers, their friends' parents, or children to older celebrities: indeed, some consider that in puppy love 'usually the object of such infatuation is some highly idealised person who is some years older - a teacher, an uncle or aunt, a friend of the family, an actor, or rock star' - and typically the sufferer 'greatly moved with emotion...spend[s] much time in daydreams and wishful fantasies'[5] about them." With references.  -- Jayron  32  03:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure quacks like Freud et. al. have a lot to say on the matter, but I don't know that it means much, as it seems to be an almost universal part of the human condition. -- Jayron  32  20:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * "I dn't agree with his ideas" does not equal "He was a quack". From our article: Freud's psychoanalytic system came to dominate the field from early in the twentieth century, forming the basis for many later variants. While these systems have adopted different theories and techniques, all have followed Freud by attempting to effect behavioral change through having patients talk about their difficulties.  --  Jack of Oz  [Talk]  22:07, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * His methods have been broadly adopted. His ideas that people are messed up because as children they couldn't fuck their parents has been pretty soundly held as hokum.  -- Jayron  32  22:09, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm curious, then, why you would choose to mention such a person on the Reference Desk. If whatever he says is to be disregarded, what's the point of referring to him at all?  Why not identify some source that you do have confidence in, rather than one you don't?--  Jack of Oz  [Talk]  22:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Point taken. -- Jayron  32  01:06, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd say one factor is that older people are seen as more successful or mature than the young person's contemporaries. I'm sure Darwin would have approved of seeking a mate who would give your offspring a better chance. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Nominate this question for closure as request for debate and opinion. The OP should be aware of our policy above: "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." μηδείς (talk) 01:16, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The question is fine; there are plenty of scholarly references that address the question "is this a pattern" or "if it is a pattern, why?" Granted, that is not what's written above, but it's not too hard to fill in a more carefully worded question. We should WP:AGF here. Anyway, this is far from my expertise, but by searching on Google Scholar for various combinations of /authority infatuation role model crush age difference attraction fan/ I found a decent general book, titled "Attraction and Close relationships", which has several relevant passages, as well as a paper "models and mentors", here -- and even fun stuff like "Identity Achievement and Idol Worship among Teenagers in Hong Kong" . Not all of these are freely available, and more relevant refs could be found, but certainly this is a question we can provide references for. SemanticMantis (talk) 02:02, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * So now we are just making up what we think the OP really meant to say? Do you have a reference for that notion?  Do you realize that in fact the OP has asked about paedophilia from the child's view--a student's sexual attraction for his high school teacher? μηδείς (talk) 02:59, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Do you realize its not your job to be the hallway monitor of the reference desks? -- Jayron  32  03:05, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Does it say under the guidelines at the top of the page that they are not to be enforced by medeis? or by no one? or that Jaryon's position is to prevent any guidelines from being upheld? μηδείς (talk) 04:15, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's talk about this elsewhere, because it doesn't help the OP get references to help them work out the answer to their question. -- Jayron  32  04:20, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

The question should be: "Why do [...]" ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 04:18, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Before anyone hats the discussion, let's make sure we point the OP in the right direction: Age disparity in sexual relationships. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:13, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Think Clarityfiend's explanation holds more weight. There are plenty of examples throughout history (and in later days – the Hollywood industry) were older women  fawn over younger, very successful men -even if those men  are ugly, selfish and self absorbed.  But as these men are fewer in number (except in Holleywood ect) so,  it usually looked at the other way around.  On the other side of the fences, I suppose a real live example would by Billy Joel & Christie Brinkley. At the time Billy was a  famous (well, my sister had heard of him) and no doubt Christie considered him a   'nice bit of rough'.  Debbie Harry sang about this 'competition'  from a woman’s point of view in: but you may need to know a little Latin to get the full impact. As Henry Kissinger is reputed to have uttered: Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. .--Aspro (talk)
 * Wow, I am sorry, I didn't want to cause so much... bothers around here. I am sorry and I apologize for my silly question. In the end, it was just that, a question... I wanted to know if there was any pattern for that behavior but... now you can close the thread if you want to :(  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  12:36, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize, and I hope the links above are useful to you. For future questions, keep in mind that carefully wording your question will generally get you better answers :) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I strongly suspect that the effect our OP is considering isn't a matter of age at all. People get infatuated with all sorts of people - it's only remarkable when the object of their affection is unattainable in some way.  When you look at the class of unattainable people, whom young people might mentally attach themselves to, they are going to be unattainable simply because there is an age difference - or because they are in positions of responsibility or that the person is famous.  Since it takes time to get famous or to be placed in a position of responsibility - it's very likely that a crush (being defined here as an "unattainable" love interest) is going to be with an older person just because of how that class of person got to be what they are.  Justin Bieber was just 15 years old when he made his big debut in 2009 - I'm pretty sure there were girls aged 15 and above who had crushes on him - so age wasn't a particular factor in their infatuation.  When someone has an infatuation with someone who is not unattainable, we don't think anything special of it. SteveBaker (talk) 16:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * But it is not always with younger people as Justin Bieber. I know about a lot of people who have crush on their techers (e. g. who are 49 years old), I have a friend who is totally in love with Steven Tyler and she thinks he is sexy... etc. What does take a young girl/boy to set her/his eyes on a person who can be her/his father/mother?? and they feel totally crush on them. (take my example of Steven Tyler)  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  16:57, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, but my point is that kids who have a crush on their teachers are quite likely having that crush because they are teachers - not because they happen to be older. Obviously teachers tend, overwhelmingly, to be older - but it's not at all obvious that age is the cause of the infatuation.  I present the Justin Bieber example to show you that it's perfectly possible for this kind of thing to happen with younger people - which tends to reinforce my point that age isn't obviously the causal factor that you seem to think it is.  Perhaps this infatuation comes from attaching oneself to people in a position of relative power - teachers, rock-stars, film-stars.  I don't know for sure that this is the case - but it seems to me that there is no special attachment to (say) older film stars than to younger ones.  I just wish to open your eyes to the possibility that age may have nothing whatever to do with it.  More important is the issue of observer bias.  We don't particularly notice when a young person attaches their interests to someone else of their own age whom they meet often - but we do notice when they attach their focus to someone much older or someone unattainable for other reasons.  It might well be that age simply isn't a factor in how these infatuations arise - only in how noticeable they are as acts of foolishness.
 * To be clear, I'm not sure whether this is a true thing or not - but it's definitely a strong possibility - and should not be discounted at the outset. SteveBaker (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I get your point Baker, and thanks for your thoughts.  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  20:14, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Suggest we archive this as answered by Tammy and Aspro above. What follows there references is just forum chatter. μηδείς (talk) 22:58, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
 * (a) We don't archive parts of answers and (b) it's pretty damned insulting to have my carefully reasoned response characterized as "just forum chatter" when it's a valid issue with the original question that might easily invalidate the usefulness of earlier answers and (c) who set you up as judge and jury of what is or is not useful information? SteveBaker (talk) 15:44, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, hatted then, Steve? Your careful crafted answer is total OR with not a dash of link or reference. μηδείς (talk) 16:32, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This question is not a hill worth dieing on, just let it be. It isn't bothering anybody but you. It will just drift away into the archives like everything else. Just don't read it if you don't like it. Trust me, it works :) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:04, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey! I am sorry for the devastation I caused with my question. didn't mean to. Miss Bono   (zootalk)  20:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem is the carefully crafted opinion given in response--some people did actually give answers and an article, which surprised me. It should have ended there. μηδείς (talk) 00:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Children forming attachments to adults is certainly nothing new and is a normal part of growing up. The problem arises with the subset of those adults who turn out to be predators. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:53, 6 June 2013 (UTC)