Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 May 11

= May 11 =

The name of those "bumps" on some military outfits?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dashing_war_veteran_and_cadets_in_SPb.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Corps-3-Man-Recon-3-3-4-Action-Figures-w-Accessories-11-Pcs-/230975641815?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item35c73898d7 (the figure on the far left has them)

You see those bumps on the left and right of his pants? What are those called?68.6.40.47 (talk) 00:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See Jodhpurs. Bielle (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Does the term 'jodhpurs' come with the military implications? That page mainly talks about horseback riding.68.6.40.47 (talk) 01:05, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Lot of horseback riding in the military for a long time. ¦ Reisio (talk) 01:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No military connotations in particular, not even the cavalry, as they didn't necessarily wear jodhpurs. (I'm trying to visualize an armored knight with "bumps".) Clarityfiend (talk) 02:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Searching 'military jodhpurs' is helpful. There are references on some sites to "flare" or "flaring". Richard Avery (talk) 07:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Are we talking about these things? They are riding breeches, of which jodhpurs are a full length variety worn with low boots. Riding breeches per se end below the knee and are worn with high boots. The military connection is that until World War I, senior officers went to war on horses, and wearing riding clothes was a sign of rank, which continued after horses were left behind. By World War II, most Allied staff officers had moved on to more practical kit, but traditionally minded chaps like Lord Gort, Charles De Gaulle and George S. Patton stuck to the slightly comical nether garments. The most famous wearers today are the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.   Alansplodge (talk) 16:33, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

dirty tricks
I have accessed your article on dirty tricks, but it appeared to be mainly concerned with the political sphere.

What I want to enquire about is a tactic I have been subjected to, and if you could direct me to where I could find further information about it? Such as, who (broadly) originated this tactic; who generally practices it and who (broadly) are the targets of the technique.

Until I experienced it (and I am 60 years old and well read) I have never come across this tactic before.

This is what happened.

The person I am interacting with, whatever I say, claims the opposite. In the absence of a third party to ascertain the facts of the situation, this creates the situation where one of us is lying. Without independent corroboration, it then devolves to credibility. The person using this technique has credibility, having managerial status, whereas I do not. The cleverness of this technique is, is that when my opponent lies, I am made out to be the liar.

If you could throw any light on this matter, I would be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiliamson (talk • contribs) 11:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Surely there is an easy defense against this - only say things publicly (in this context) that you can back up with material proof. If you make half a dozen statements, this person nay-says all of them, then you reveal your material evidence for every single one of those points - then your opponent looks like a fool.  This is akin to the Wikipedia policy of requiring all "facts" to be backed by solid references...and it's worth considering.  You can even, perhaps, set up a trap wherein your opponent doesn't know that you have material evidence.


 * If you don't have solid evidence for some particular thing that you're saying, then make it clear that in this case, you're simply voicing an opinion rather than stating a fact. If you make that clear then you cannot be accused of lying - only, perhaps of having opinions are that are not shared by your opponent.


 * There is another subtle thing going on here though. The difference between lying and simply being wrong.  Without seeing examples of what you are saying, it's hard to see how your opponent is able to convince people that you know that he's right and are deliberately making incorrect statements to the contrary - or that you are simply thinking incorrectly.  But the distinction is irrelevant if you are, in fact correct and can prove it - since then you are demonstrably neither incorrect nor lying.


 * I don't know of a particular name for this tactic - but you might care to read "The Art of Being Right" - a book by Arthur Schopenhauer that contains 38 different tactics of this nature.
 * SteveBaker (talk) 13:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * First this is a very well worn dirty trick (see Gaslighting or even Workplace bullying), the Wikipedia dirty tricks article may not have gotten around to it yet. Second this seems just harmless ribbing or annoying at most however if you are afraid this will impact your livelihood I would take Steve Bakers first recommendation of say as least as possible when it is just you and this person. Depending on your state and if you fear job loss I would highly recommend buying a small preferably data usb type audio recorder, most models can go 30-40 hours of continuous taping and you can file them every week or so on your home computer.  Just be sure you are in a state that allows for that by checking here.
 * Although I am sure you can read books and develop defenses and learn all about this tactic whoever is employing it is already well versed and experienced so if it is legal to do so I would just practice saying as little as possible and audio taping everything, although probably just fun and games this person might be a serial "get them fired" type and uses this tactic to do so.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   14:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * But before you audio tape anyone without their knowledge, think about it very carefully and maybe get some outside legal advice. It stands to reason that you could be breaking all sorts of privacy laws, which could land you in very hot water.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  20:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Is there a wiki article about these islands which...
Yes, please, is there a wiki article/list about these islands which are separated by a boundary like New Guinea (2 countries: Indonesia and Papua New Guinea) or Cyprus (Cyprus and Turkey, ok, even if it's disputed...). Thanks in advance. 81.62.124.121 (talk) 15:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There's List of divided islands, and Category:International islands. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:08, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! 83.79.188.86 (talk) 18:14, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Falling elevator
If you're in an elevator or other enclosed space that has failed and is in free fall towards the earth, what should you do in the few seconds you have to maximize your chances of survival? (yes I know elevators have multiple fail safes and other complicating factors, that's not what the question is about) 70.162.4.242 (talk) 16:42, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * See Parachute landing fall for the technique to adopt, and Free fall for some historical examples. Basically, you want to (a) maximize the time between your body first contacting the ground and it becoming stationary, and (b) absorb the energy with the parts of your body that will::On an episode of the old TV show Man and the challenge,  suffer least damage (ie, not your head). Tevildo (talk) 17:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In an episode (probably the last of the series) of the old TV show "The Man and the Challenge," a man in a falling elevator jumped up and grabbed the ventilator fixture on the ceiling, and when the elevator hit bottom it helped to slow his descent as it pulled loose from the ceiling and the fan wires stretched and broke. If you were carrying something big and soft, placing it below you might help. Bent legs, and slapping the floor when you hit might help a little bit. Elevators since the late 19th century have had failsafe systems to hold them to the track if the support cables break, but there have been catastrophies where they fell many floors fast enough to kill the passengers. I seem to recall reading that that happened in an elevator of the Empire State Building when an airplane struck the building in the 1940's. 99.140.247.51 (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Indeed - see B-25 Empire State Building crash. Betty Lou Oliver (the operator of the elevator in question) holds the record for surviving the longest drop in an elevator, cushioned (slightly) by the cable and the air in the shaft. Tevildo (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The online episode guides do not disclose which episode of Man and the challenge it was, but one other person posting on IMDB also recalls it: 99.140.247.51 (talk) 20:14, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Why would slapping the floor help? What are you using to slap the floor with anyway? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Spreads out the impact over a larger surface of your body, so no one part takes the brunt of it. Here's a demonstration. Granted, you'll be falling a lot harder in an elevator, but the gist should still apply. Doesn't mean you'll live, but better odds, I think. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * See the article that Tevildo posted; you roll and slap the ground with your side. It maximises the distance/time that your decelerate over, thus reduces the the forces imparted on your body. [User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] (talk) 11:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * How does one slap the ground with one's side? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have an arm and a leg inconveniently poking out from there. μηδείς (talk) 00:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * There was an episode of Mythbusters that dealt with the myth that you can jump just before impact and somehow help avoid injury...that definitely doesn't work (examination of the physics of the situation makes that a no-brainer!)


 * But consider this: In theory, if the elevator was truly in free-fall, then there may not be anything you can do - you're in free-fall too, your feet may no longer touch the floor - and if they do, there may be so little friction between feet and floor that you can't move around without launching yourself above the floor.


 * In practice, there would be some friction with the side-rails and whatever equipment was supposed to stop the this from happening (which presumably must have failed) would probably still be imposing some frictional force. So the most likely situation is that this is like being in a very low-g environment...maybe like being on the moon.  Being able to jump to reach the ceiling vents only works if you can lower your body towards the floor with knees bent in order to make the jump...if you haven't trained in low-g, that might be surprisingly difficult.   It seems to me that the likelyhood of an unprepared person successfully doing anything to materially alter their situation in the short time available is essentially zero...but adopting the bent-knee posture that parachutists use ought to help.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 13:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I read a story a few days ago about a woman who fell down a lift shaft after the doors opened and she walked in blindly not noticing that the lift wasn't there. She fell six storeys, which is pretty much enough to kill someone, but she survived, having landed on a dead woman who had previously fallen in. So the trick might be to (rather selfishly) get on someone else's back in the lift while it's falling, presuming someone else is in it.  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  14:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Genetic engineering
Hello, has any scientist been able to genetically engineer a plant so that it has some of the characteristics of a mammal, bird or fish? Can they splice mammal, bird or fish genetic material to a plant, please? Thank you....SnoozertheCat

Back story: I was eating a freshly boiled red potato. I noticed that such potatoes, when eaten freshly boiled, seem to have some of the taste and aroma characteristics of a boiled egg. It occurred to me that perhaps they could genetically engineer plant foods with some of the nutritional or flavor characteristics of conventionally produced animal based foods for the ethical (vegan), religious, lower cost, or environmental (global warming) benefits. I know that they have spliced genetic material from the BTk bacteria to plants to produce plants with natural insect pest resistance.

This is my first time asking a question. Any tips or comments appreciated. I tried researching for the answer myself but have not had luck yet. Thanks everyone! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SnoozertheCat (talk • contribs) 18:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Fish tomato. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:44, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * you'd be amazed how many vegetables glow because of gene splicing. Shadowjams (talk) 21:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * For clarity, Shadowjams is I think referring to Green fluorescent protein and the various mutants thereof like Yellow fluorescent protein which come from the jelly fish Aequorea victoria and the various other fluorescence proteins most? of which come from some usually marine animal (particularly corals) e.g. dsRed which comes from a/various? Discosoma species, EosFP which comes from Lobophyllia hemprichii ; which are very widely used (particularly the original GFP) as a reporter gene (and also other purposes) in molecular biology including in plants and which will result in the fluorescence in the organism somewhere (depending on what you're trying to monitor or whatever). See for example the dsRed reference and of course the various articles. Note however while GFP and other fluorescence proteins have been inserted in to various animals for sale as pets, e.g. GloFish, I'm not aware that there have been many inserted in to plants intended for commercial sale. Nil Einne (talk) 05:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

behaviour of a murderer
so if you have committed a murder and it looks like no-one is going to discover that you did it, is it better to never tell anyone about it or to confess? because in one way you would have to always remember the time you murdered someone and say you feel really bad about it and so are haunted by guilt but if you confess they could hang you by the neck until you were dead? Horatio Snickers (talk) 20:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * This is clearly a request for opinions, and as such beyond the scope of this reference desk. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This user has been mentioned before as an SPI candidate. μηδείς (talk) 02:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC)


 * EDIT - Removed "Container". What fresh madness is this? I am asking a question here - "If confessing to a crime would result in your execution, is it better to confess and die or remain silent and live a life of guilt"? And what is an SPI and when have I put myself forward as a "candidate" for one? Shotmed Paper Industries? Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence? I have proposed myself for the Wikiemedia Foundation board but had not the required number of edits. I do not expect to be treated with suspicion and disrespect on a page such as this one. Horatio Snickers (talk) 19:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Shoe Logos
I saw a list in Wikipedia that showed the most famous shoe designers. Is ther another list that also shows the logo's they use? I have a pair of shoes I got at an estate sale with only a logo of a Tourch(?) & would like to know who the designer is. Is there a web site I can go to the shows designer's logo's? Thanks to anyone who helps me. I've searched google but can't find what I'm looking for. Barb Greer (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In general, no. Our fairuse rules allow us to use a a company's logo on that company's page, but not else where. Likewise, an album's cover can be used on a page about that album, but not on the bands discography page. CS Miller (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Torch (British usage) as in the electric thing that shines light in your eyes when you're wondering if the batteries are dead or Torch as in the stick with fire on the end of it? Can you take a picture of the logo and then post it somewhere on the Internet for us to see?  Dismas |(talk) 23:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)