Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 May 18

= May 18 =

The character "娬" in early Chinese computer character sets
I'm not sure whether this question should be categorized under Computing or Language, but here it is:

I have a friend from China whose name contains the character 娬 (wǔ). However, when she went to get her (computer-produced) ID card during the 1990s, she was told that this particular character could not be produced with the computer systems that existed back then, so they substituted the character 斌 in its place, which, although visually similar, has a completely different pronunciation (bīn). Could this be explained by the limitations of early Chinese character sets such as GB2312? In other words, is it true that GB2312 (and possibly other early character sets) did not contain the character 娬? 24.47.141.254 (talk) 05:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This is an ancient character. It is not in my small dictionary of 10000 characters, but is in a larger one. (the meaning is connected with beauty). Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Plastic Bags
Why do plastic shopping bags from UK supermarkets like ASDA have four little circular holes in the bottom? Surely it can't be for airflow, as the holes are in the bottom and are likely to be covered by what's in the bag. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 11:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * To make it less likely that rug rats will suffocate? Dismas |(talk) 11:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * This not quite reliable source appears to agree that it's for suffocation hazards. Dismas |(talk) 11:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If someone finds a reliable source, perhaps this information should be included in our Plastic shopping bag article.--Shantavira|feed me 12:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I suppose that makes sense. Children do tend to like putting things over their heads, but I didn't think it was for that reason. So why is it that just the free bags have these holes, and not the ones you pay 5p for (the 'Bag For Life', as they call it in ASDA)? Is there a regulation on this, or is it just voluntary on the part of the organization making/distributing the bags? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 20:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The 5p bags tend to be slightly heavier plastic so although not impossible it is not so easy for the rug rats to suffocate as it is with the very thin free bags. MilborneOne (talk) 20:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Cheers - you've answered my question perfectly. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 21:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Pigeons
Beginning hobby / is there any way to determine the sex of adult pigeons? Mine are gray with some colorful blue green plumage. This is my first experience with pigeons , so I am open to Advilce & help from experienced/knowledgable response.

15:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.193.12.14 (talk)
 * Removed duplicate post, seems Jayron32 and I both did one former and one latter lol. Addressing the question since they are adults you could wait around for a few months and if all else is in working order that would prove it for sure.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  16:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Sexing Pigeons. μηδείς (talk) 21:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Rule 34? -- Jayron  32  21:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Not really, at least not the first few dozen hits. μηδείς (talk) 23:54, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

It depends on the species/breed. Homing_pigeon explains how the sexes can be differentiated by external morphology. Others may need to be flipped over and fiddled with, as shown in Medeis' link above. If you are starting to raise/breed pigeons, I highly recommend you find and join a local club, as this kind of info doesn't transmit very well online. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:31, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Been away from Wikipedia for 4 years.
Hello Everyone! I just created a new account and look forward to being a Wikipedian again. I last edited in July 2009 and haven't even been on Wikipedia at all since then. I have two questions about what may have changed. 1. What is the current consensus on paid editing? Did the issue of paid editing ever get resolved? (I remember it was pretty contentious back in 08-09). 2. What is the role of Jimbo Wales here these days?

Also, is there anything else that has changed remarkably that I need to know about? I look forward to reading all your answers. Thanks. Bacon Avacado Burrito (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See WP:PAID and WP:JIMBO. Looie496 (talk) 23:20, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See WP:PAY regarding paid editing. RudolfRed (talk) 23:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See Wikipedia Signpost/Archives. (You seem to have misspelled "avocado".  See avocado.)
 * —Wavelength (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * See "History of Wikipedia".—Wavelength (talk) 23:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the links. That seems like a lot of reading though and I'm getting into middle age.  Would you mind summarizing the issues for me in your own words?  Thanks.  (As far as the Avacado thing, I did misspell it, but I copied it verbatim from the menu of the cafe I was at earlier.) Now, about those summaries...Bacon Avacado Burrito (talk) 23:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The Schnitzel Syndrome is apparently alive and well. --  Jack of Oz  [Talk]  23:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Paid editing is tolerated, provided it's neutral, but WP:conflict of interest promotion leads to death by WP:TROUTing. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised about the WP:PAY section. Back four to six years ago paid editing sparked reams and reams of heated debate, hurt feelings, and banned editors.  Now it's just a few paragraphs in the COI policy, huh?  Wow.  So what's the current "hot topics"? Bacon Avacado Burrito (talk) 00:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * We had a bit of a row about not putting references on every post on the Reference Desk a few months ago...


 * Probably the most important development is a greatly increased focus on preventing abuses in biographies of living persons; see WP:BLP. Looie496 (talk) 15:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that it's not like paid editing controversy has gone away. There have been several hot issues of the last year or two where it came in to play sometimes in addition to other stuff besides COI, e.g. Bell Pottinger which lead to amongst other things,, /, Gibraltarpedia. There are of course also various COI related ones where paid editing is not necessarily a major factor, including one involving User:Qworty which is active right now. See also List of Wikipedia controversies and Wikipedia Signpost/2012-10-01/Paid editing. Note that as Looie496 said, there is also a focus on protecting BLPs (I don't know if I'd say it's greatly increased since IMO we were already fairly focused on it 4 years ago, although it's definitely greatly increased since 6-8 years or so ago) and when it comes to editors, avoiding outing so I (and we) have to be careful what I said in reply. Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Aren't porn/paedophilia, and scientology recent issues of great import as well? I haven't come across them here, but there were huge mentions in the press. μηδείς (talk) 03:14, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * How long ago was that Virgin Killer dustup where Wikipedia got blocked from the entire Island of Great Britain? (addendum) Wow.  That was 5 years ago.  Tempus fugit.  -- Jayron  32  17:30, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Add the Signpost to your userpage, Bacon, and you'll get updated weekly on all the latest controversies. Textorus (talk) 20:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Guns in towels
I know nothing about guns. Why do I see that TV characters so often have their handguns (usually hidden) wrapped in a cloth or towel? I hide things, but not normally wrapped in towels. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 23:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Because it's soft and also will leave the gun in a shiny lustre. Plus a towel (especially an Italian waiter's towel) can also be used as an imprompteuax silencer if you need to shoot your local crime boss and take over his "action." (a la the flashback scenes in Godfather II) Bacon Avacado Burrito (talk) 23:56, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You're not specific about when you see them hidden. When the character is holding it (presumably intending to fire) or when it's hidden in storage or what?  If it's while being carried (and intended to be shot) a towel is a benign object that is often carried over a person's arm.  So, nobody notices.  If shot, the bullet will exit but the gun won't be seen by bystanders if it's under a towel.  Shot is fired. Everyone looks around. You're just some guy with a towel running away with everyone else.  If it's hidden but in storage, it doesn't mar the finish of the gun.  Dismas |(talk) 01:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Leon Czolgosz shot William McKinley with a gun wrapped in a handkerchief.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I meant they are wrapped in towels when they are hidden during storage. I have recently seen this on Sons of Anarchy, when a hidden gun is pulled out of the back of a drawer, and True Blood, when a gun is pulled out of what looks like a chimney or a hole in a wall.  I also saw it recently on a third show, probably Breaking Bad, because I commented to myself that was the second time I had seen it when I did on SoA. μηδείς (talk) 02:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It is to keep it clean. Covering it with a towel can stop dust getting into the mechanism while in storage, as dust can cause the gun to malfunction. The towel itself is also used when stripping down a gun to clean its parts. Might as well keep them together. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 08:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The answers make sense, although I would have expected guns come with cases. The towel thing struck me as about as odd as people keeping their cars under down comforters. μηδείς (talk) 15:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The contrast and the manual action of revealing contents may introduce a desired element of drama. If a gun is hidden in a "chimney or a hole in a wall" it needs to be presented to the viewer as not just junk, but rather a valuable and protected object. Guns may come with "cases" but cases may not fit into chimneys or holes in the wall. The towel may reduce the size of the secreted object relative to a comparable case. The towel-wrapped gun may conform better to available space. Generating fear in an audience is a high priority at a point at which a weapon is revealed in a story. For dramatic effect, the primitive brutality of the gun may be presaged better by the more simple associations brought to mind by a towel than by the more complex and nuanced associations brought to mind by a made-to-order gun case. Bus stop (talk) 15:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I do get your point about the reveal, but in all three cases it seemed more to present the idea that "this is the way people wo have hidden guns store them" than "bet you didn't know what was in the towel". In all three cases it was obvious from the shape of the wrapped item what it was, and even before the item was seen that the character was in need of a gun. What would really have been surprising would have been if the towel-wrapped item had proven to be something other than a gun. μηδείς (talk) 19:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
 * They're just trying to get a clean shot. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * There are contrasting qualities between textile and steel. The gun is a great equalizer, sometimes making the weak strong. At a point in a story that you may be describing, a turning point may be developing. There may be a foreshadowing of a change of events by the cloaking of the strong in the soft. The storytelling thus may be advanced not just by that which is explicit but also by qualities that are implicit and not consciously noted. Bus stop (talk) 17:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good speculative literary criticism! But it doesn't apply in the two scenes I am thinking of, with Jax Taylor in Sons of Anarchy or the Shapeshifter vs the Maenad (well, maybe that one) in True Blood. μηδείς (talk) 18:36, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

So, apart from Wehwalt's links, is this simply a chat forum? What is the encyclopedic benefit of this thread? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It could be that it is not the gun that is important but the towel. Perhaps they strangle or smother their opponent with a towel in the next scene. OK now I've run out of ideas for why TV characters might have guns wrapped in towels. Bus stop (talk) 20:50, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I do have to say I am curious if there are texts on the care of guns by survivalists or according to folk methods. I understand guns can also be stored in grease or greasy rags? μηδείς (talk) 03:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've heard lots of anecdotal stories of guns being stored for decades in cans of kerosine. I'm guessing is the idea is to not oxidize it. I doubt this is good if you're trying to preserve collector value though. Of course that's not really necessary seeing as how hundreds of years old guns can remain in great shape so long as they're only mildly protected. Modern guns with any kind of surface finish (parkerizing, nickel plating, not to mention modern nitrie finishing like what you'd see on a Glock 22) will last through an incredible amount of abuse. Shadowjams (talk) 19:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * In the dark days of 1940, the UK bought 615,000 M1917 Enfield rifles from the US that had been in storage since 1919, for use by the Home Guard. They arrived coated in heavy grease, which had to be removed by the recipients. The approved method was to boil them in linseed oil, but finding large enough quantities of it wasn't possible in wartime, so the grease just had to be scrubbed off by hand, sometimes with the aid of a hot iron. Alansplodge (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2013 (UTC)