Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 November 21

= November 21 =

I have a loosely scientific question: If a 75 year old lady got somehow pregnant what kind of abnormalities could the baby have?
I know my question doesn't make much sense but I curious what would happen if a 70 or 80 something gal got pregnant and would there be a media frenzy......... Venustar84 (talk) 06:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, there would be all the problems older women now have with pregnancies, such as the baby having a higher risk of Down's Syndrome, only magnified. Then there might also be risks from whatever fertility treatment was used to achieve the pregnancy. StuRat (talk) 07:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * From Ovary; note particularly the last sentence:
 * "Although about 1 million oocytes are present at birth in the human ovary, only about 500 (about 0.05%) of these ovulate, and the rest are wasted. The decline in ovarian reserve appears to occur at a constantly increasing rate with age, and leads to nearly complete exhaustion of the reserve by about age 52. As ovarian reserve and fertility decline with age, there is also a parallel increase in pregnancy failure and meiotic errors resulting in chromosomally abnormal conceptions."
 * Such chromosomally abnormal conceptions could result in an embryo or fetus so nonviable or otherwise damaged as would cause a spontaneous abortion ("miscarriage") before a full-term pregnancy. This actually happens, with varying frequency not necessarily related to maternal age alone. -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * You can read exactly what happens, or can happen, at Pregnancy over age 50. The oldest mother to date seems to have been 73 years of age.--Shantavira|feed me 08:21, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Sarah was 90. Assuming she was healthy, there would be no known effect due to her own age per se. μηδείς (talk) 22:56, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Does being old reduce the risk of any particular defects? If not, the baby's still open to any of the ones "normal" parents discover.


 * But yeah, there'd be a media frenzy, and that'd be abnormal from most childhoods. The parents would likely die while the kid's young, leaving no grandparents or aunts/uncles to take over. And probably no older siblings (why would an 80 year old want a kid if she'd already raised some?). So that'd be weird, living with Oprah. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:46, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I imagine having an elderly mother makes you less likely to be born a crack baby. StuRat (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Corporal punishment in US schools
The information on 'Wikipedia' regarding USA schools in the southern and mid west does not address, or does not contain, any pertinent information regarding corporal punishment of students in those schools. In 19 states of the US this information is vital pertaining to the particular school referenced. How can this be resolved? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.215.39.6 (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Question header added AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Have you read School_corporal_punishment - it seems to answer your question perfectly. SteveBaker (talk) 15:06, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * This same question was asked this past summer. μηδείς (talk) 19:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * In fact, there are numerous questions about it, in the archives. And for whatever reason, this seems to be an area of special interest to Demiurge. The question is, which is worse: "Corporal" punishment? or "General" punishment? :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:44, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * I think I read about variants on "general punishment", including "Field punishment No.1" (it involved no blows or beatings of any sort) in a book about soldiers' experiences in World War 1. As for your second sentence, perhaps I'm an "international Human Rights maven", eh? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:04, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the hope. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * To the person originally asking the question: if you are a parent wishing to find out if a school under consideration for your child uses corporal punishment, it would be best to contact the school or school district directly and ask them. It seems highly unlikely that they would refuse or mislead such a request for information. If you are a child who may be about to be sent to such a school, it would be best to ask a parent or guardian to make such enquiries on your behalf. Wikipedia does not keep details of the discipline policies of every individual school and school district, as they change regularly and are not widely publicised. (Note that many U.S. school districts forbid corporal punishment even in U.S. states that permit it, thus the school will not have a policy on it, they will just follow the school district's rules.)


 * If you have trouble working out which school district a school is in, or something similar, we are a reference desk and we can certainly help with that.


 * Now for the rest of you :) No-one said that the same question was asked this last summer. I don't remember that question, though I do remember one on the same topic. Either way, it does seem natural that children, or their parents, in the 19 U.S. states that permit school corporal punishment, would potentially find this a topic of acute interest. Thus a recurring question is not surprising. (Though the wording of this one looks slightly pointed.)


 * The article linked by SteveBaker provides a large amount of information about the topic, but does not discuss individual schools, which appears to be what the OP was asking about. (It does provide a link to a website that collates all manner of related data, including current school rulebooks and handbooks that mention corporal punishment still being in use.) How to "resolve" the issue of Wikipedia not including such information is really a Helpdesk or Teahouse issue rather than a Refdesk one, but my suggestion is that it's not really practical to do so. (School articles have enough problems with being regularly updated as it is.)


 * I generally support the inclusion of reliably sourced information on this topic in articles on individual schools, but such information is most often not available. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * From a UK perspective, the fact that a school allowed corporal punishment would be a major positive selling point and plastered all over its website. Things may be different in the States, of course. Tevildo (talk) 20:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * BS: According to our article corporal punishment is prohibited in the UK. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:57, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hence the tag. Many people in the UK regard that law as undesirable, and would regard a school that offered corporal punishment - were it to be legal - as superior to one that didn't.  I'm surprised that schools in the USA, where corporal punishment _is_ legal, don't regard it as something to be advertised.  But, if it's not, it isn't. Tevildo (talk) 21:17, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Equally BS. Many people in the UK - I suspect far more than Tevildo's "many" - think that corporal punishment by either schools or parents is utterly despicable, and would certainly not go within a million miles of any institution that tried to practise it.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:14, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * 49% in favour, as opposed to 45% against, according to this 2011 survey. It's only one survey and may not represent the whole population, and I agree that a significant number of parents are opposed to corporal punishment, but not "far more" than those who support it. Tevildo (talk) 09:18, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link, which disproves your argument. And mine.  Clearly, opinions are divided.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:40, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

AHA! "...your argument.  And mine." Not "your argument and my." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Another_question_about_pronouns. μηδείς (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * But not "¶Your and mine argument". Tevildo (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Did I say that? But "mine eyes and yours."  μηδείς (talk) 03:02, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * What would the international Human Rights mavens have to say about that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Legal in 19 states? Jeez.. Ssscienccce (talk) 21:41, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, except for juvie in some states where they just kill you outright you won't find any news stories about it--it's just not an issue. You will occasionally hear of teachers taping and taping weird objects to gradeschoolers, but that seems to be more about the teacher than the punishment. μηδείς (talk) 22:21, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no substitute for parental vigilance. Some parents consider their kids' teachers to be partners in the development of their children. Others regard teachers merely as babysitters. One possibly unintended consequence of corporal punishment, though: The lesson it actually teaches its target is that violence is a perfectly acceptable solution to solving problems. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:38, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the fourth time I have read that sentence, and the first time I realized you did not say, "There is no substitute for parental violence." μηδείς (talk) 17:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Effective, maybe (chopping your child's hands off is undoubtedly a very effective way to get him to stop masturbating). Perfectly acceptable, that depends on who's doing the accepting. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  17:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think maybe you misunderstood. The child gets hit for doing something the teacher doesn't like. The lesson he learns from that is that if someone does something he doesn't like, he has moral authority to hit that other person. (Or shoot him with an AR-15, if available.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:27, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. There was some distance between "unintended consequence" and "perfectly acceptable", and I have an ever dwindling attention span.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * On a secondary issue, our lot would be in apoplexy if any of our news media were to apply the subtitles in that video. But these things are all relative. ;) Tevildo (talk) 22:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


 * You might be interested to know that there are still some private schools in the UK that are fighting for their right to continue corporal punishment. See today's Daily Mail.    D b f i r s   22:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)