Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 October 25

= October 25 =

Is television coverage a reliable source?
So is substantial coverage on television a reliable source? Or must an RS be in print? Like, if 60 minutes does a feature on a certain subject can we use that for a citation as a RS on Wikipedia? How would we cite it? ThanksFishface gurl (talk) 05:41, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Reliable sources do not need to be in print. They simply need to be published (online, on paper, over the radio, on TV), and they need to be recorded somewhere (i.e. possible for another editor or reader to retrieve). And of course they need to meet the other standards for reliable sourcing. You would use the cite episode template to cite it. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * In addition to Someguy1221's good info, many TV news shows (even those on cable networks) have a link to transcripts on their websites with many having video links too. If it was a very notable episode or newscast there are sometimes newspaper accounts of it which are especially useful for those broadcasts of the pre-internet age.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   06:32, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * One thing to beware of, though, is infomercials which try to trick you into thinking they are news broadcasts. They will have "reporters" interviewing people wearing white lab coats in a studio, all talking about some brilliant new discovery, which amazingly is available absolutely free for $20 (that being the non-refundable shipping and handling). StuRat (talk) 16:31, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

VW Golf
I don't know much about cars, just that I love Maserati Quattroporte. And I was looking for a car for the main character of my story and I just found this beauty and I fell in love with it. The questions are: Are these cars good? How much they cost? How lasting they are?  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  15:50, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Largely depends on what model year, some of the early ones weren't all that reliable, tho they were always very affordable. There is a cartalk history of the make here and VW viewed this model as the heir to the international success of the famed Beetle of the 1960s and early 70s.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   18:20, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

edit conflict ::Cannot follow the link. A model from 2003, maybe, and another one from 2012.  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  18:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/history.html is the link, but if your looking for the last 10 years see below, VW is a pretty reputable brand recently and known as an economically affordable (reasonably priced) product.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  18:34, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Truly bad cars are rare these days - so whether it's "good" depends on what you want out of it. Speed? Acceleration? Handling? Economy? Cheap price?  Heated seats for a cold climate? Crash safety? Available in shock pink? Room to have hot sex in the back? Ability to haul 5 kids to soccer practice?  Off-road capability?  Room for a golf bag in the trunk?  Stick shift or Automatic?  Will-it-fit-in-my-garage?  Cost of insurance? ...a million variables affect what every person thinks is a "good" car.


 * In the US, a 2014 Golf is selling for $19,995 to $25,200 depending on the options you get. Most modern cars are easily good for over 100,000 miles - probably 150,000 is when they start being more trouble than they're worth - I'd be surprised if the Golf was significantly better or worse than that.


 * For a character in a story, you need a car that speaks more to the person's character - and a VW Golf is a fairly characterless 'blah' car. I think you need something that speaks more loudly about the characters' personality and social position.  For that price, for example, you might want to consider a MINI Cooper (my favorite car - I've owned seven of them so far!) - it's fairly similar to the Golf in price and performance - but it has a more unique style that says something about the owner.  If you really want to make your character stand out from the crowd, how about choosing a nicely restored car from the 1950's or 60's?  If the person is really eco-friendly, then you're going to need a hybrid or an electric car.  If the person has a super agressive personality and more money, how about an Ariel Atom?  If the person is dirt poor then a beat up old Jeep or something like that might speak more to their style.  But a VW Golf says "I can't be bothered to think of a cool car"...OK for a real person - but very bad for a character in a story.  A character in a story might have modified the car to better fit their personality - racing stripes, an air-horn, stiffer suspension, louder exhaust, racing numbers on the doors!


 * Part of being a novelist is to put yourself in the place of the characters you're writing about - the make the person more interesting by making their differences from you more extreme - then think about how this more extreme person would express those extremes in how they dress, where they live, what job they do, what they drive, what they eat, who they hang out with...everything. The car that *you* would like isn't necessarily the one your character would pick.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 18:23, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Didn't Jack Ryan drive a VW Golf in Patriot Games? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 22:05, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Can see that you know a lot about cars. I was thinking about that, if you think that a Golf says "I can't be bothered to think of a cool car", then that's the car I like the most and I am going to put it at number one of my list of favourit models, right before of the Maserati Q. -which was at the first spot until, say, a couple of minutes ago. Then, I have to choose a car according to my character personality, but if I don't know much about cars... how will I know. which want to choose?  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  18:32, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * You may try to search for "reviews" of the 2002-2013 model Golf's, usually you find out so many interesting things from owners and potential buyers online and much of what SteveBaker went into above.
 * However, most novels don't go into super detail about a characters car, first it takes away from the story and second it makes for a longer possibly more irrelevant read. Without knowing how central the car thing is for your story simply leaving it at color, style and that it is a recent Golf should suffice any curious reader.  Novelists also usually love to leave some things as a mystery and to the imagination only giving part of any picture or profile especially of things like what car a character drives.  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way   18:40, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, yep. But I wanted to know if my character could afford buying a Golf.  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  18:43, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * A quick glance at Exchange and Mart shows the cheapest Golf with an MOT I could buy within 20 miles of my home address at £300 ($450 US). Unless your character is _really_ poor, he can afford a Golf, but not necessarily a new one. :) Tevildo (talk) 19:46, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * The character is not poor but not rich either. She's a student.  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  19:49, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * What nationality? Students in Britain generally can't afford to run cars (and they don't usually need to). Itsmejudith (talk) 20:30, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * College student at Stanford University.  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  20:32, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I owned a car in college, (three used ones, sequentially, actually) and would say more than 50% of my fellow undergrads did, at least by the time they were juniors or seniors. Of course, this was the US, not the UK.  If a student did ow a car she either had generous parents or, like me, a paying job in a lab, or as a waitrix.  μηδείς (talk) 21:17, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * lol w/ "waitrix" both the portion size and the uniforms get skimpier every year!  Market St.⧏  ⧐ Diamond Way  00:21, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * When you're served by a waitrix, you never, ever complain about the food and you always leave a big tip, lest you be "disciplined". Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Isn't the point to complain? Oh and my tip is bigger then yours lol. <sup style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> Market St.⧏ <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;"> ⧐ Diamond Way  12:12, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The VW Golf is an iconic car in a slightly unusual sense. It's the first "classless" car, at least in Germany. It's predecessor, the (original) VW Beetle was a lower-class car, e.g. the archetypical student car (together with the Renault 4 and the Citroën 2CV). The Golf, on the other hand, was something new. It's layout was so convenient, and the quality "good enough" to appeal to nearly everybody across the economic spectrum, at least for people who did not want to make a statement with the car. Student and professor, professional and cleaner - they all bought the Golf. Rich people bought it as a second car for "the wife" or "the kids". In the last 30 years, the lower end has been eroded by cheaper cars like e.g. the VW Polo based on the same general principles. In a sense, having your character drive a Golf is making the statement that the car has been selected for convenience and practicality. That said, some variants have a different connotation. The Cabrio version was the archetypical "rich daughter" car. And the GTI version was more of a "I want a sports car but cannot afford a real one" statement (not that the GTI did not have quite good performance for the time). In the US, Laura Holt, the person behind Remington Steele, drove a VW Golf Cabrio. Disclosure: My first (and only) car was a 1982 VW Golf Diesel - which I sold in 1997 when I moved to a big city with bad parking and good public transport, and also finally had a real job and thus could afford rail travel and taxis ;-).--Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:39, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * This is way off-topic - but I have to protest that last answer. There is no way that the Golf could be described as "the first "classless" car".  Not even close!  The classic Mini cost 600 UK pounds (about $1000) in the 1958 - it was just about the cheapest proper car on the market and as a consequence was exceedingly popular amongst the poorest motorists and starving students (I owned one when I was a student in the 1970's).  Yet it was owned (and driven and loved) by Ferdinand Alexander Porsche, Enzo Ferrari, Steve McQueen, Clint Eastwood, all four of the Beatles, Mary Quant and many, many other upper class people.  Queen Elizabeth II herself bought one to drive around London. (Dale Ernhardt Jr has a nicely restored one too!)


 * Starving student to Queen of England and little old ladies to race car drivers - and the designers of both the Porsche 911 and the Ferrari is about the biggest class divide imaginable - and the Golf wasn't even a glimmer in VW's eye in the 1960's. The Golf doesn't come within a million miles of being "classless" - and it sure as hell wasn't the first!  Even in Germany, the Mini was something of a cult icon and spanned the range from people who just wanted a cheap car to the rich and trendy who wanted to make a statement.  You might successfully argue for the BMW Isetta as the first "classless" German car...it's debatable because "classless" is a pretty vague term. SteveBaker (talk) 17:31, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi bono! Si lo que andas buscando en un carro casual (que entonces no sé cómo llegaste a considerar al Quattroporte) me parece que el golf no es tu mejor opción, y ser icónico tampoco lo ayuda, ni tampoco ser alemán, me parecen mejores opciones un nissan sentra o un hunday accent ;)
 * mira Top Gear
 * Suerte con lo que estás escribiendo!
 * Iskánder Vigoa Pérez (talk) 03:11, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Ohhh no, No considere el Quatroporte para mi personaje... It's my favourite car. personal opinion. Soooo, you guys, what car do you recomend? <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  12:41, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Selling aircraft carrier USS Forrestal (CV-59) for one cent
Why is the thousands of tons of steel, copper aluminum and other metals in an old aircraft carrier, along with any useful hoists, pumps and motors, or any collectible items, worth only one cent? Is it that expensive to tow it to a scrapyard? Is it that expensive to cut it up and ship it to a factory for repurposing? In 2012 goods-carrying ships were fetching $350 to $450 a ton as scrap per Bloombverg news. If this ship amounts to 60,000 tons, that would be $21,000,000. Edison (talk) 20:36, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Ships of that era are stuffed full of asbestos, and have cables made with hard-to-dispose-of dioxin-filled insulators. Such was the case with the French carrier Clemenceau, the disposal of which at Able UK was a contentious business. Laws in the US and other developed countries increasingly prevent the export of such problem hulks to low-standards countries like India, and proper disposal at advanced facilities like Able is super expensive. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 21:01, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * cf United States Navy reserve fleets, whole islands of stinky unusable deathboats all waiting for someone to pay for them, like unwanted puppies at the shelter. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 21:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know about the current laws, but I asked my father about this, who worked in the Philly shipyards on sister ships of the Forrestal. He said there was one ship scrapped for a dollar while he was working (this would have been around 1960) which the owner, without ever taking physical possession, resold for the copper and iron scrap rights, making over a million dollars.  As Finlay's pointed out, the regs have changed.  But Dad was of the opinion they should have set a million dollar minimum bid on the Forrestal. μηδείς (talk) 21:25, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Correction: Dad worked on sister ships of the Forrestal in the early 60's, but the $1 ship that was resold for over a million was scrapped in the 90's, which heard about when he worked at the WTC. μηδείς (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Alang in Gujarat, India, is the place where less scrupulous owners have their unwanted ships scrapped. The hulks are beached on the sand, and "as the tide recedes, hundreds of manual laborers dismantle each ship, salvaging what they can and reducing the rest into scrap. The salvage yards at Alang have generated controversy about working conditions, workers' living conditions, and the impact on the environment." Alansplodge (talk) 09:49, 26 October 2013 (UTC)