Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 September 13

= September 13 =

United states house of representatives
What is the annual budget for the House.Do they have to have senate and presidential approval? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.212.58 (talk) 01:16, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean the operating budget for the body itself, and not the national budget it approves for the entire federal government. If so, this article from 2011 in CNN indicates that the budget is roughly $1.5 million per member, subject to some small political adjustments each year.  I am uncertain as to whether this operating budget is an internal matter or is subject to regular legislative procedures, including a Senate vote and presidential signature.  -- Jayron  32  01:49, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * All federal spending has to be proposed in the House and approved by a majority of both chambers and be signed by the President or a veto overridden by two thirds majority of both houses. There are no magical, extra-congressional sources of money according to the constitution: Article 1 Section 7
 * All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.


 * Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.


 * Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.


 * μηδείς (talk) 02:14, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The constitution also gives each body the right to set its own rules of order and operation Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution. There is some question as to whether operating budget falls under such regulation or not.  Also, spending money is not raising revenue.  You may very well be right; I merely stated I was unsure of how the House's internal budget was set and approved, not that it was or was not subject to the standard "how a bill becomes a law" procedure.  It may very well be; but I'm not entirely sure that passage proves one way or the other that how the House decides to spend money is subject to the normal law-passing procedure or not.  More details are needed on the specific question to answer one way or the other, rather than just broad constitution quotes.  -- Jayron  32  19:39, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This comes up on occasion, especially when the Republicans took back the Senate and House in the '80's and '94. The place to look would be the changes that happened in '94 under Newt Gingrich, since the House budget was specifically at issue, and reforming it was a stated Republican strategy.  I remember it being in the news.  I suspect as a matter of courtesy there was an overall budget for each chamber decided by law which each chamber could spend as decided by its leadership. μηδείς (talk) 20:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

13th Friday
Can any one tell me why exactly 13th Friday is considered as unlucky day?

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.212.66 (talk) 10:22, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Friday the 13th. It's difficult to say exactly where old superstitions come from. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I heard that 13th Tue.'s superstition came form the crusades' times and the Pope... This should help you Friday the 13th Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Basically, the superstition that Friday the 13th is unlucky stems from two much older superstitions: that Friday is an unlucky day and that 13 is an unlucky number.  The belief in Friday's unluckiness may be because it was the day Jesus was crucified.  The belief that 13 is a bad luck number probably derives from numerology, since 12 is a number representing completeness and 13 transgresses that completeness; those looking for a religious connection can also point to the 13 men at table at the Last Supper.  The amalgamation of these separate superstitions began in the 19th century, but the Friday the 13th superstition did not become widespread until the publication of a popular novel, Friday, the Thirteenth, in 1907.  While some modern writers have pointed to events that fell on a Friday the 13th in the past, these events have nothing to do with the modern superstititon.  John M Baker (talk) 16:36, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Didn't Jesus die on a Friday the 13th? μηδείς (talk) 20:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Although the Gospels tell us that Jesus died on a Friday, they don't tell us the year, month, or day. John M Baker (talk) 21:15, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * See Chronology of Jesus @ "Year of death estimates", and "Day of death".  It seems the most favoured proposed death dates are 7 April 30, 3 April 33, and 23 April 34.  No 13s there.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:34, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, Sunday morning isn't the third day after 3PM Friday, either, is it? μηδείς (talk) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * ? Not sure what that's about. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  02:03, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * He's talking about the dispute over whether Jesus rose on literally the third day after the crucifixion. It depends on how you slice the days. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:41, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, the convention of starting with the ZEROth day is relatively modern. For most of history, it was "days of" (starting at one) not "days after" (starting at zero).
 * Yeah sure, but I don't see any connection between the time gap between the Friday and the Sunday, and the Friday being the 13th of any month. Medeisian humour, I guess.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  03:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite. I'm obviously in no position to complain about someone else's obscure jokes. I do try to explain mine though. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Explaining humour is always contraindicated. That's assuming the utterance is in fact humour, which in some cases is a moot point.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  04:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * All I meant was the reports are unreliable. There's no joke. By the way, Matthew says three days and three nights. μηδείς (talk) 16:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, but what does this issue have to do with whether he died on the 13th or not? BTW, this is the first time I'd ever heard of the "13th day of the month" component of the Friday 13th superstition being connected to the death of Jesus.  All that event contributed to it was the Friday, mainly because there has never been any real idea of what the date was, just a lot of speculation based on disparate strands of evidence.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:24, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Folk tales and tradition and bald speculation are one thing, attempts at serious Biblical criticism are another. I wasn't seriously suggesting Jesus died on Friday, 13 Nisan. μηδείς (talk) 02:10, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The Last Supper was part of the Passover Seder, which begins on the evening of Nisan 15, or when the sun sets to end Nisan 14, to put another way. The real issue is that the Bible doesn't tell us whether it was the first day of the feast or the second. Thus it's not possible to pin down the actual date with certainty. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:38, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * There was no (and there still is no) "second day feast of Passover" in Jerusalem. הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 16:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Ingenious ways to apologize
I am looking for some ingenious and smart way to apologize for having done something stupid. (not for me, it's for the novel). I've thought about a song, or spend the night outside the person's house...  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  14:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The more ingenious an apology is, the less sincere it seems. There is no substitute for "I'm sorry". Looie496 (talk) 15:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * A nice present helps, along with a simple apologetic note, such as flowers. I agree it shouldn't be too "smart" if it's to be effective. Standing outside someone's house is a bit creepy.--Shantavira|feed me 15:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, our article Regret (emotion) suggests that apologizing is a way to express regret. So for an apology to seem sincere, it should presumably provide a means by which the regretful person demonstrates that emotion.  Our article breaks down the emotion of regret into: Sadness, shame, embarrassment and depression - possibly with annoyance and/or guilt.  So I think that a sincere apology should demonstrate at least a few of those things.


 * For example, if you apologize with a big smile on your face, then you are negating sadness - so the apology doesn't seem credible. A good apology needs to demonstrate that the apologizer is indeed sad.  Apologizing with some indication that you'll do the exact same thing again negates shame.  A big, showy apology might risk negating embarrassment...and so forth.  An overly planned apology (hollywood-style) may make for a better story - but I doubt it would be as effective in reality since that degree of planning seems unlikely for someone who is exhibiting depression.


 * Furthermore, the goal of an apology is to relieve whatever symptoms you've inflicted on the person you're apologizing to. If you kicked a ball through your neighbor's window - then an effective apology might include the cost of repairing it.  If you're apologizing to a loved one for forgetting their birthday - it would help to include a really good birthday gift (along with the demonstration that you're sad, shameful and embarrassed).  In many cases, "trust" is something that the victim may have lost in the process of whatever went wrong - so, again, the apology has to provide means of demonstrating that trust can be restored.  Telling your neighbor that you've given up playing ball in the back yard may help to restore trust that you're not about to break another window!


 * So an effective apology needs to do two things - demonstrate that you do indeed have many of the component emotions of regret - and to provide at least some degree of remediation to the victim.


 * There is a consequence to that second clause. In order to remediate the problem, you have to understand what the victim is feeling - and why.  This is often the hardest part of apologizing.  (Trust me - I have Asperger's syndrome - and I find it EXTREMELY difficult to figure out how other people are feeling).   So you know that your neighbor is pissed at you for breaking his window - but you don't know that his big concern is that the window was left open for burglers to climb through and that he's not concerned with the cost of replacing it so much as the loss of feelings of personal security.


 * SteveBaker (talk) 16:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I happen to disagree almost entirely with SteveBaker's response. E.g., there's no problem with a smiling apology I can see.  But the problem is that the question is not very clear.  Can you try being more specific, Miss Bono?  Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Person A: The Girl.
 * Person B: The rich and famous boyfriend.
 * Situation: Everything occurs before they begin dating and when A and B are enjoying some vacations with the friends of B and their wives.


 * B (in the process of getting divorce from his wife) invites A to spend some time at his vacations home along his friends and their wives. A was afraid to confess her love for B because she knows that he could hurt her (unintentionally) if she gets involve with him emotionally, while B has spent months trying to let her knows that he is being serius when he says that he wants to have something with her.
 * At some point A decides to show her feelings and she tells B. On the same night, B receives a phone call form his still wife, asking him to return home to try and solve things. B tells her [his wife] that he'll return and will do everything to get through. A listens to the conversation and she gets devastated. Then, some argument between the friends and B take place and B decides to fly his native country.
 * When he gets there, his wife and kids are waiting for him at their home. He spends three days there, but he can't take A out of his mind and realize that his marriage won't survive any longer even if they both try hard. B comes back to USA, where A lives and decides to apologize but  A doesn't want to pay attention....
 * So.... that's the story... Any suggestion? Ideas or corrections?  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  17:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Given these areen't factual questions, it is hard to answer. Are you able to access the following fiction writers fora?

Creative Writing Forums - Writing Help, Writing Workshops, & Writing ... www.writingforums.org/‎

A creative writing forum dedicated to all writing, where writers can discuss ... in December 2006 we interviewed fantasy & science fiction writer Patricia C. Wrede. ‎General Writing - ‎RPG - ‎Character Development - ‎Plot Development Fictionpost Writing Forums - Where Writers Unite www.fictionpost.com/‎

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The official writing forums of Writer's Beat. ... As a guest you have limited access to these forums. You can ... 530, 3,383. Fiction. Novel excerpts, short stories, etc. A New Fiction Writers Forum | Advancing the craft of fiction writing cgblake.wordpress.com/‎


 * μηδείς (talk) 19:58, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I am not, my friend. But the question was... is there any convenient way for the man to apologize?  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  20:00, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Be genuinely contrite (that is, actually feel sorry for hurting the other person) and sincere in their apology. Apologize not as a means to seek forgiveness or with the expectation of acceptance, but because you are genuinely recognizing your own failures and know that it is the right thing to do. Apologizing with an agenda is usually seen as insincere. Apologizing because you know you did wrong, and want to let the other person know that you are recognizing your own wrong doing and genuinely feel bad for what you did is the right approach. -- Jayron  32  20:08, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * How do you say I'm sorry if they don't want to listen to you.  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  20:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You can say anything. What you cannot do is force a particular response from somebody.  There is no apology that another person is guaranteed to accept.  All you can do is be sincere and genuinely contrite.  If they don't accept it, then there's nothing more you can do.  You only have control over your own actions and feelings; you have zero control over the actions and feelings of others.  -- Jayron  32  20:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe I am not expalining myself the right way; when he knocks at the girl's door she shuts the door in his face. Does he have to yell I am sorry! so she hears it?  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  20:27, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, he can do whatever he feels is right. If she refuses to listen to him, he can't force her to.  He could yell I'm sorry at the top of his lungs.  She can still call him an asshole and call the police and have him forcibly removed.  His actions have no bearing on her response.  -- Jayron  32  03:16, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm, this is too difficult to answer, it would require almost seeing a movie of your story, then imagining the missing part from what you had seen. I am curious if you have read Cyrano de Bergerac (play). μηδείς (talk) 20:14, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * No, I haven't yet. Puedes traducir lo que dijiste al español? Es que no entendi muy bien.   Miss Bono  [zootalk]  20:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Lo que acabo de decir? Tu pregunta es muy dificil. Para responder yo desearia leer la totalidad de tu cuenta (o, mejor, mirar la como pelicula), pero con la escena de que tu piensas omitida.  Entonces yo podria imaginar la parte que falta. μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * (Lo que temo es que presentas una question de integracion, y me faltan las partes.) μηδείς (talk) 20:43, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * μηδείς Que piensas que te falta para entender? I wish I could make the movie, I already know who would play the guy! :D  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Ingenious or not, the most important important aspect of an apology is humility, contrition. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * And it's certainly not about almost demanding the offended party forgive you. You may certainly ask for forgiveness, once, but then it's up to them.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:28, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely not. That would be the "Paula Deen school of apologies". The comparison that always comes to my mind is that one episode in Star Trek, the original series, in which the Enterprise had been taken over and used to attack other starships. Once Kirk got control back, instead of defending his ship against the remaining starships who were poised to attack the Enterprise with everything they had, he ordered the protective shields dropped. That's what a sincere apology is - dropping the shields, becoming vulnerable and counting on the good will of the other party. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:44, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I heartily recommend it. But depending on the severity of the offence, the good will of the offended party may be some time in coming, if ever. They're entitled to their anger, outrage, resentment, hurt, whatever they feel, and it's futile to just sweep them under the carpet.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  02:07, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Some things are pretty much unforgiveable. The worst case is presented comically in one scene of Holy Grail. Noble at castle where a wedding was to be: "You've slaughtered all my guests!" Sir Lancelot: "Um... oh, yes. Sorry!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:44, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * For writing projects, the best way to approach this it to put yourself in the position of the person being apologized to - what would you want this person to do to win you back to them? Then imagine whether the person doing the apologizing is going to think of doing that - how might he screw it up?   What would your reaction be to a botched (but genuine) effort at contrition?  Of course, as always, you're writing a work of fiction.  Who's side do you want your readership to be on?  If the guy makes a heartfelt (albeit perhaps imperfect) effort and she rejects him out of hand - then their sympathies are with him.  If he makes an obviously insincere  effort and she sees through it - then the readers are with her in rejecting him.  On the other hand, he might make a great effort and through several tries, wins her over - and he's seen in a good light and she comes out of it looking OK too.   If he makes a lame effort and she caves in easily, then she looks like a fool.  As always, you can make the story come out any way you like.  Choose the outcome you need to progress the plot - then figure out how to get there.  I suspect that you don't want an amazingly clever apology - you want one that will tug at the emotions of your readers...and that's probably something small, somewhat lame, but incredibly sincere SteveBaker (talk) 01:06, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * First thing I though of was a plane sky-writing "I'm Sorry", a Heart or similar, or perhaps a talented flash mob singing their favourite song at an unexpected moment? Thinking of "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" from the movie Top Gun or Unchained Melody from Ghost. Mostly thinking here of a male apologising to a girlfriend/wife etc here. Maybe literally filling their home with roses? (I know flowers work! wp:OR ) --220  of  Borg 02:21, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I like the Calvin and Hobbes apology song []. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Miss Bono, surely the place to look for ideas is U2's video for "The Sweetest Thing"? --TammyMoet (talk) 19:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, believe me, TammyMoet, I've seen that video hundreds of times. It have been played on my iPod 1098 times (O_o)... don't blame me, I just like the song... and the puppet... it's not my favourite one, though.
 * So SteveBaker, I really really need something half lame, small and super duper sincere. What would it be... I mean, though the man is incredibly rich, I don't want something eccentric...  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:47, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I like the four step approach:
 * Take responsibility: "I'm sorry I did X".
 * Acknowledge the consequences: "I'm sorry I did X, I know that Y happened because of that".
 * Ask for forgiveness ""I'm sorry I did X, I know that Y happened because of that, will you ever be able to forgive me?"
 * Shut up and let the other person respond.
 * So that's got sincerity covered...well, at least if delivered with convincing remorse (remember: Sadness, shame, embarrassment and depression).
 * The question now is how to make it "lame"...and I suspect that simply over-doing it is all that's needed. "...and here is a $250,000 bright pink, rhinestone-encrusted Ferrari with 'I'm Sorry' embroidered into the driver's headrest to show you that I really mean it."...OK, maybe too lame!
 * I think perhaps you're in need of a well-intentioned "addition" to the basic sincere apology that somehow goes badly awry when it's actually delivered. How about he hires an airplane to sky-write "I'm sorry Miss Bono!" - and all of her friends see it and now she's horribly embarrassed because of it...now that's pretty lame.  He puts up signboards with his apology on it all over town...he shows up where she works with a guy in a panda suit who delivers the apology in song while all of her co-workers are watching.
 * Basically, anything that creates a new problem for her as well as delivering the desired (and sincere) message is decidedly "lame".
 * SteveBaker (talk) 15:26, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Great Steve! I am still laughing at the man in the Panda suit. Those are really great ways to apologize, I came up with an idea using #1 and #2 :D... Goooood! Thank all of you guys, I think you all will be at the acknowledgement page of my book, if it is released someday.  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  17:03, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * According to http://www.bearsandballoons.com you can get a "Panda-Gram" (basically, a guy in a panda suit...a very bad panda suit) to do it for $125! The web site says "Want to send some embarassing fun to your loved ones at home or work? The Panda-Gram does just that! This funny panda shows up at home or at the office and sings happy birthday while delivering a bright and colorful balloon bouquet! This package also includes a birthday hat and confetti!".   I doubt he'd charge much extra for singing: "Abandoned you at the party//and went back to my wi-ife//I understand that I hurt you//please stay here in my li-ife."...to the tune of "Yankee Doodle".  I'm sure that the free balloon bouquet, party hat and confetti would only add to the sincerity and remorse part of the apology! :-) SteveBaker (talk) 20:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool SteveBaker!! And cool song by the way :D For $125?!  Miss Bono  [zootalk]  12:13, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well...plus the $2,000 fee for licensing the lyrics for my song... :-) SteveBaker (talk) 17:45, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Elephant shrews
Can you keep an elephant shrew as a pet? Would you need any specific equipment? Where in the UK can you get a pet elephant shrew? Horatio Snickers (talk) 20:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * No idea specifically, but this page from the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, an animal welfare organization in the UK) has some guidance on how to properly keep non-domestic (or exotic) animals as pets. You may want to contact them for guidance, they are likely your best source of information.  -- Jayron  32  20:11, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Elephant shrews are cursorial and make tracks in the scrub/forest which they patrol. The Philadelphia Zoo keeps them in large enclosures during cool weather.  Probably not a good idea unless you have a large estate. μηδείς (talk) 20:29, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Legally, this page lists the animals you're not allowed to keep as pets (without a licence), and the elephant shrew is not on it. (You need a licence to keep a pet walrus?  I don't know, Elf 'n Safety gone mad). Tevildo (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)