Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 April 18

= April 18 =

I want to rent an apartment in changzhou,jiangsu
How can I rent a nice apartment in changzhou,jiangsu,China??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jessicacheng728 (talk • contribs) 11:17, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." Sorry about that. You may try searching the web, though. Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 13:23, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If you can read Chinese, you might try a site like this one. If you can't, you are more likely to find someone with local knowledge on this forum than on the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Marco polo (talk) 18:01, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Just some comments on apartment rentals in general:


 * 1) Ask specifically what is included and what isn't, as it can vary wildly. Heat and  water may be included, or may not.  The stove and refrigerator and microwave oven may be included, maybe not.  Even furniture and cookware/dishes are sometimes included.  A parking space or carport may cost extra.  Later insist on a signed copy, in writing, listing everything they said was included.


 * 2) If they control the thermometer and they pay for heat, expect to be cold all winter long.


 * 3) Don't fall for only viewing a model. Insist on seeing the actual apartment before you sign anything, or you may end up in a place that stinks of urine, etc.  Flush all the toilets, run all the faucets to see if you get hot water, etc., and turn on the heat and A/C, if so equipped, long enough to tell if they are working, and bring a night light you can plug into all the outlets, to tell if they work.  If they have the utilities shut off, that severely limits your ability to check it out.  Also check if all the windows and doors open up, including cabinets and closets.


 * 4) Consider any money you give them to be lost forever, even if it's a deposit, as many of them claim enough damages to keep your entire deposit, no matter what. Also insist on them signing a statement acknowledging all the existing damages you can find, before you give them any money, in the hopes that you might not get charged for those.


 * 5) Talk to the neighbors alone, to find out if they have had any problems. (They might be afraid to tell the truth if you are there with the landlord.)


 * 6) Ask exactly how much you will spend each month, including taxes, additional fees, etc. Again, get it in writing.


 * 7) Avoid any place that makes you sign a long lease, and yet has the right to increase your rent during that lease. Plan on your rent going way up whenever the lease/rental term ends, in any case. StuRat (talk) 20:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Later insist on a signed copy, in writing, listing everything they said was included - I totally agree, Stu. After all, a signed verbal list isn't worth the paper it's not written on.  And the signature is often hard to make out.  :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I was trying to exclude the possibility of them signing a paper saying they agree that the renter won't be charged "for the items we discussed", without explicitly listing them. StuRat (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Strike the bit about talking to the neighbours, unless the OP speaks Chinese. There is very little English here in China, mostly because, in spite of all the schooling, people just find it hard. It's the same for us learning Chinese - the gap between the languages makes it hard. My neighbours are fine and there is no raucous noise, and I'm in a regular downtown sort of area in Jiangsu. Unless you speak Chinese, just get some help from a local with paperwork, and yes, look at photos. That said, I think about 2000rmb per month will net you a decent place. Electricity is cheap, and almost every place has aircon, as far as I am aware. I know nothing about bond etc. IBE (talk) 00:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The OP's last name is "Cheng", so I think there's a fair chance she might speak Chinese (I wonder what portion of people named "Cheng" speak Chinese). StuRat (talk) 01:05, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Taking the piss
Whilst in Germany, I noticed an incredible indifference to public urination. In my country, if you are caught urination you are immediately apprehended by the police. However, in my experience people in germany seem to take a blind eye to it, urinating in residential areas, in towns, municipal facilities like train stations etc all seems to be relatively tolerated, providing you show some attempt to be discrete.

Heck, I even saw a parked police car and a guy urinate by a tree a few feet in front of the vehicle in plane sight.

Can anyone clarify what's going on here, is Germany just ultra liberal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.96.72 (talk) 14:40, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Urine is relatively sterile and fairly harmless (or actually beneficial to plants as a source of nutrients) when applied in small quantities to soil. It is only a problem when applied in large quantities or on impermeable surfaces where bacteria can metabolize it into fouler-smelling compounds before it is washed away by rain.  So in congested urban areas, it is a nuisance that might deserve police attention, but there is nothing inherently wrong about public urination except in the eyes of a person coming from a place where it is culturally stigmatized.  In Germany, the cultural stigma just isn't as strong as it is wherever you come from.  Marco polo (talk) 15:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Tell that to the pernickety people of Portland, please. A man was caught pissing into their dam, so they have decided to drain it for fear of contaminating their precious citizens.  That's 144 million (!!) litres of water just thrown away.  And please tell the local birds and animals not to crap in the dam in future.  What a sad joke.  Nanny society, your time is now.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:21, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * There may be more to that story than meets the eye. First (I hadn't realized this myself) the reservoir in question is what's called a "finished drinking water" reservoir &mdash; that is, it gets piped from there straight into homes with no further treatment.  Supposedly, Portland is rigorous about excluding both humans and animals from the watercourse, though exactly how they manage that in practice I have trouble explaining to myself.
 * So, still pretty stupid, but not quite as stupid as you might think if you thought this was a more normal sort of reservoir that holds water that's treated en route to homes, or else used to recharge groundwater.
 * But that's not half of it. In 1993, there was an outbreak of cryptosporidiosis in Milwaukee that killed quite a few people.  See 1993 Milwaukee Cryptosporidiosis outbreak.  In response, or maybe a better word would be "reaction", the Environmental Protection Agency started a long rulemaking process aimed at eliminating uncovered finished-water reservoirs.  See Long Term 2 Enhanced Surface Water Treatment Rule  This is a great pity because the result is not going to be very attractive, and the connection to the supposed reason for it is shaky at best, but I do kind of agree that it's not an ideal way to store finished drinking water if you were starting from scratch.
 * Turns out that the most important city that sued the federal government over this rule was &mdash; Portland.
 * So I don't fully follow it all myself, but there's a substantial possibility that this action has a complicated political subtext. Not that that makes it any less stupid, but it makes it stupid in a more interesting way. --Trovatore (talk) 02:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keeping drinking water in opened ponds seems stupid, to me. Aside from all the natural contaminants, that's an obvious temptation to terrorists to poison the water supply. StuRat (talk) 03:06, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Even aside from that extreme possibility, if urine contamination, even superhomeopathically dilute contamination, is a real concern, they ought to erect barriers to prevent access by random persons. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  03:18, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I would assume they've already done that, but I can think of several way past a barrier, like a ladder, a catapult, a mortar, or a plane drop.  Or they could just throw something over.  StuRat (talk) 03:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Personally, not very worried about the terrorism angle. This isn't Gotham City, and the Joker doesn't have a little test tube that's going to make everyone freeze or whatever it does.  I think poisoning a large supply of water is harder than you think. --Trovatore (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Smilex helps us smile. But he has plenty of others. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:33, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Note that poisoning your enemy's water supply has been used in warfare for thousands of years, most recently in Sudan, where bodies were thrown down wells to poison the well. So, any water handling plan ought to keep threats to the water supply in mind. StuRat (talk) 21:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It's impossible to fully secure something as massive as a water supply system, which must inevitably pass through populated areas. Better to not upset too many people who might become enemies. And worrying so much about terrorists doesn't help. If you're worrying all the time, they've won. HiLo48 (talk) 22:12, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * You can secure it a lot better than leaving it in open ponds. Drilling through to a buried water main would be a difficult operation, likely to cause a flood and draw attention, and would affect fewer people, in any case. StuRat (talk) 14:03, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * How much plutonium would it take ? (Perhaps supplied by angry Iranians after a military strike on their nuclear program.) StuRat (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * More than you think. The bad thing about plutonium is if a piece gets in your lungs, because it stays and keeps irradiating the same spot.  It's essentially harmless outside your body, because your skin blocks the alpha radiation.


 * So I don't really see how you're going to get plutonium into your lungs from the water, not reliably anyway. To be sure, it's not great to have it in your bloodstream either, but I think it would take quite a lot to cause any noticeable casualties, even if you could solve the problem of making it water-soluble, which I don't know how to do. --Trovatore (talk) 03:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * They'd still manage to cause panic if it could be verified that they got any plutonium into the water supply. StuRat (talk) 03:50, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that part's true. --Trovatore (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Metallic plutonium is very heavy. Even tiny pieces would quickly end up on the bottom of a reservoir. Outlets are never right at the bottom. HiLo48 (talk) 04:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Lots of drinking water is kept in open ponds. What do you think reservoirs are used for?  While large numbers of people do get drinking water from aquifers, many others get it from surface water sources like reservoirs.  The Quabbin Reservoir provides water for much of Massachusetts, Falls Lake for the Research Triangle, the Ashokan Reservoir for New York City, etc. etc.  -- Jayron  32  03:27, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Jayron, I don't know how much you read of my mini-essay above, but the question is not whether it's drinking water, but whether it's finished drinking water &mdash; that is, sent directly to customers with no further treatment. I think that's what Stu meant. --Trovatore (talk) 03:30, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Are you sure that's finished drinking water ? I think in most cases that's an input to the water treatment plant. StuRat (talk) 03:31, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Then there's the concern that somebody may see a man's penis. In the US, public urination can thus get you put on the sex offenders watch list, for the rest of your life, and often there is no distinction made on that list between such people and rapists. StuRat (talk) 16:20, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

That's harsh...so what if you're a woman. Is there equal concern of seeing your vagina, and if so does that also attract the same sanctions? If not, looks like men are sort of penal-ized....86.6.96.72 (talk) 17:12, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, deliberate exposure of one's vagina could lead to penalties in the United States similar to those for penile exposure. There is a really strong current in the United States of public prudery (often voiced by people who are later caught engaging in sex acts that hypocritically violate the norms they espouse).  Marco polo (talk) 17:43, 18 April 2014 (UTC) 17:42, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * In theory, yes, but in reality women are less likely to be charged. StuRat (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Two things to consider. It's easier for men to unzip and whip than for women to take their pants half down. So more common, hence more commonly busted. In standard peeing positions, a man's penis is visible from the front and both sides, while a vagina is just from behind. The last time I was stopped by cops for open beer, they suggested I go off the sidewalk rather than walk a few houses down to my friend's toilet. So if it's a crime here, it's one of those crimes. Probably different when there are kids around. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * vulva ≠ vagina —Tamfang (talk) 13:12, 19 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Different cultures, different social mores. Do Americans and Brits pee under their lemon trees? It's an old custom in Australia and New Zealand. Well, for men, anyway. HiLo48 (talk) 22:36, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * So that's why lemons are yellow. :-) StuRat (talk) 22:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Lemon trees only grow indoors here, so no. Peeing in public places is regarded as very antisocial in the UK mainly I suspect, because of the unpleasant smell after a few hours. The police don't tolerate it here; I'm not sure of the exact offence but it's not exposure that's the issue. "GETTING tough with drunken yobs who urinate in Glasgow streets has seen violent crime plummet by almost 70%, police chiefs today claimed" and "DRUNKEN yobs caught urinating in the street in Hull city centre are being made to clean up after themselves with a mop and bucket" are two random examples out of many pages of search results. It used to be a very noticeable practice in France; on a camping trip there in the 1970s, our Scouts began to refer to trees as "Frenchmen's toilets". Alansplodge (talk) 16:44, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Why are the yobs targetted by this racist policy, while the natives get away with it? μηδείς (talk) 02:16, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yobs are natives. It's just a local term for hooligans, troublemakers, or generally obnoxious (usually male) people.  See Yobbo.  -- Jayron  32  02:29, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Even worse! So, the indigenous yobs are targetted for prosecution by an oppressive southern regime.  No wonder they want independence. μηδείς (talk) 17:07, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In Glasgow, the police enforcing the measure will be as Scottish as the yobs. The second story relates to Hull, which is in England. --Dweller (talk) 18:04, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe "yob" originated as a term of abuse, as in "backwards boy" in England. Can't back that one up though. --TammyMoet (talk) 08:39, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, the OED confirms that it's just "backslang for boy", recorded as early as 1859, and used by John Osborne in Look back in Anger (1957). The pejorative sense seems to have started about a hundred years ago.    D b f i r s   11:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Backslang is traditionally associated with the butcher's trade in London. When one of my Scouts got a Saturday job in the butchery of a local supermarket a few years back, he quickly developed an interesting backslang vocabulary, so it's still alive and kicking, although "yob" seems to be the only backslang that has made it into the mainstream. Rechtubs’ Kaycab Geenals (Butcher's Back Slang) has more details, should you wish to become fluent. Alansplodge (talk) 21:34, 20 April 2014 (UTC)