Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 April 22

= April 22 =

Sir Eric Ronge
I kept a cutting from The Age of 4 May 2010 because a death notice caught my eye. The deceased is Sir Eric Ronge, whose dates are given as 29 November 1926 to 1 May 2010. Then it mentions his wife Eva, his children Ricky and Marcelle, and in-laws' and grand-children's names. There's no information about what his field of endeavour was. I've tried googling to find out more about him, but have drawn a blank. There are hits for an Eric Otto Ronge, but I have no way of knowing whether that's our man.

So, who was he, who knighted him, and why? Thanks. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:59, 21 April 2014 (UTC)


 * There's an Eric Ernest Ronge works for the government in Kenya, but he still seems to be alive. He writes lots of rather dull sounding stuff. There's a Dr Eric Ronge, a Swedish specialist in hypermobility who is still writing his blog. I also found on a Czech website Eric R.Ronge, nar.29.2.1926 who is the founder of E R Ronge & Co Pty, an estate agent in Melbourne, Australia. Alansplodge (talk) 01:41, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Bingo! In the August 2010 edition of Kvart Melbournsky, a magazine for the Czech community, I found this notice "With deep sorrow we announce, 1 May 2010 at the age of 83 years, forever left us, our revered and beloved husband, father, grandfather and father-in-law - Eric Rene Ronge - Forever in our thoughts and hearts. Sleep tight. Goodbye". It's on page 9 and in Czech. No mention of a knighthood though. Do they still have them down under? Alansplodge (talk) 02:09, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The Australian Business Who's Who directory of 1967 lists Eric R. Ronge as a chairman of the bank A.N.Z. Overseas. OttawaAC (talk) 02:18, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It just goes to show the vagueries of Google. That book definitely didn't appear on my British Google search and neither did the Eric Otto Ronge that Jack found. Most odd. Alansplodge (talk) 02:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * (e/c) This also mentions Eva. I assume "nar. 29.2.1926" is a date of birth (maybe someone interpreted 11 (for November) as II (Roman 2) for February; otherwise, how do we explain the 29th of February in a non-leap year?  So, this seems to be definitely him.  But all the hits are in Czech, which is odd, although they do mention Prague.  Yet here is a site for his estate agency in Melbourne.  (later) But now that I know he was member of the expatriate Czech community, it makes sense.
 * The "Sir" is a bit of mystery. The only place I've seen it at all is in his death notice I quoted above.  Some non-Commonwealth countries (including the Vatican) have knighthoods, but they don't entitle the recipient to the title "Sir".  I've not heard of Czech knighthoods.  If you'd asked a month ago, I would have told you that Australia abolished knighthoods in 1986 and the last recipient was in 1983.  But Tony Abbott, bless him, has deemed it appropriate to reinstate them in the 21st century, so he's prevailed upon the Queen to restore the AK and AD to the Order of Australia.  The outgoing and incoming Governors-General, Quentin Bryce and Gen Peter Cosgrove, were the first recipients.  So far, we still don't participate in Imperial Honours any more, but with a precedent (and a PM) like this, anything's possible. Such interesting times we live in.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  02:31, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Finally, from out of the murky bowels of Google, I found a 1968 photograph of Eric Rene Ronge, sporting a rather dashing quiff. Goodnight all. Alansplodge (talk) 02:54, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In response to JackofOz's last post, there were knighthoods in Tasmania and Queensland as late as 1989. Hack (talk) 04:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Do people with knighthoods in Australia generally call themselves "Sir" or is it a bit of an embarrassment? Alansplodge (talk) 12:53, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In the last decade there have only been a handful of knights active in public life, most of whom received their accolades as a result of service to Britain. I can really only think of James Wolfensohn (who may or may not be a substantive knight) who does not or did not use his title. I guess those likely not to use the title would not accept the award in the first place. Hack (talk) 16:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * See Living Australian knights and dames. I guess, never having been offered one, that those who do accept such gongs would be willing to use whatever titles come with them; if they thought Sir/Dame was an embarrassment, I imagine they'd think the award itself was of the same ilk and wouldn't have accepted it in the first place.
 * I've taken James Wolfensohn off the list because his award was honorary, and was made some years after he ceased to be an Australian citizen. It would be incorrect for him, as a non-Commonwealth citizen, to use the title "Sir". (That doesn't stop Mr Bob Geldof KBE from getting Sir, including from people who should and do know better, but that seems to be a losing battle.  I wonder if they'd call his wife "Lady Geldof" if he were to remarry. Hmm.)  Thanks for alerting me to this anomaly. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Wolfensohn is an odd one - when he regained his Australian citizenship a few years back, the citizenship certificate showed his name as Sir James Wolfensohn, however there is no indication the knighthood was made substantive. Hack (talk) 00:41, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I understand such people are required to apply for conversion to substantive knighthood; it isn't just done automatically upon acquiring the right citizenzhip. Although, if they had been of the right citizenship at the time of the knighthood, it would have been substantive without any further ado, which sort of smacks of second-class citizenship for the johnnies-come-lately.  But then, even those who inherit peerages are not automatically given them upon the death of the incumbent - they have to go through a process of claiming them, and those claims being subjected to rigorous scrutiny, before they are advised "Yes, you are indeed the 19th Viscount Bloggs, and have been ever since the death of your late father the 18th Viscount".  So, I'm guessing that Wolfensohn, who has retired to a farm on the banks of the Murrumbidgee River, is quite happy being plain Jim, and quite happy in the knowledge that he could be Sir James with the flourish of a pen to the Palace, but doesn't see the need, particularly in these egalitarian days when Aussies have no truck with knighthoods etc any more. (Yeah, right.)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:15, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Astrology
I remember reading somewhere that there was a newspaper editor who had re-run old daily astrological forecasts without anyone being wiser.I want this reference since I had mentioned it to someone about this. Searching the Internet yielded me no results.Thanking you in anticipation.Sumalsn (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2014 (UTC)


 * That would be James Randi. --Aspro (talk) 21:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Every cycle of the Great Year as understood (e.g. by Plato) to mark the return of the Sun, Moon, planets and fixed stars to their original zodiacal positions should allow previously generated Horoscopes to be recycled. JustAnotherUploader (talk) 22:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Well. The illusionist Randi does get accused of always stacking the cards his way. --Aspro (talk) 22:40, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I rather doubt that Randi was publishing 23,000 year old horoscopes. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:29, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
 * As do I. I'm also not sure he's the guy wanted. I know Randi had a bit where he gave everyone in a class/meeting/audience the same generalized horoscope and asked them to rate how well it defined them (always very well), but I don't think that's quite what's being asked here. Randi is many things, but he's not a newspaper editor, so I don't see how he'd have the position or resources to do the specific claim of re-running old horoscopes in a newspaper. Googling rerun horoscope hasn't turned up much yet. Matt Deres (talk) 23:18, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The "generalized horoscope" is the Forer effect (or Barnum effect), though no doubt Randi has done the trick too (I think I've also seen it done by Derren Brown). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 23:44, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If you read the comments section below this horoscope column you'll see that recycled horoscopes are not that unusual. "Getting away with it" in an era before comments to the editor would definitely get published would probably have been child's play. 24.242.87.207 (talk) 05:57, 25 April 2014 (UTC)