Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 August 1

= August 1 =

Card trick: how did he do it?
I was at work the other day and a young man came up to me and did a card trick: he fanned a deck, told me to pick a card, memorize it, and put it back. He then had me shuffle it. I did it 4 times, and he then picked a card and put it back. He took a card out, set it aside and told me to pick the one he picked (I had no idea and guessed at it), and I set it aside. He then named my card, flipped it over, then named his card and flipped it over. They were both correct. Now, I might have the order of events wrong, but I don't think so. Either way, how the heck did he do it? Mingmingla (talk) 02:58, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Is this your card→ 3 ♣ ?  71.20.250.51 (talk) 04:29, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I do card tricks all the time. The easiest way to know what card has been picked, is to get the person to show the card to others in the group (distracting him/herself from your actions), whilst you pretend to straighten up half of the pack by knocking it on the table - taking notice of the card in the pack that it will be placed next to, when you ask him/her to place the card back into the pack. You can shuffle, or ask the person to shuffle. The chances that those two cards will be separated are next to none. You then find them both. Simple trick.  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  04:36, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * But how do you take notice of the card that it will be placed next to? I could understand it if you cut the pack in half, so you could glance at the card at the top of the half.  But how do you do it if you ask the person to slide the card back into the pack, without being able to see which card they've placed it next to? --Viennese Waltz 05:23, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You know that on the back side of each card, there is a pattern? Mostly made up of dots or something or other. You can actually fill in the dots with the same colour felt-tip pen, in a method of your choice, to help you know what the card is, even without seeing it. They are so small, hardly anyone notices. Good luck in your next poker game!  KägeTorä - ( 影 虎 )  ( Chin Wag )  09:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You forgot to link to card marking. --50.100.189.29 (talk) 09:49, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It's hard to say because there are so many variations on this trick. They may have used a sleight of hand to move the card to the top or bottom of the deck after you inserted it - by being careful about the way they hold the deck and allow you to insert your card, your card may stick out just enough they can feel the edge and work with it. Although an experienced person can do this with a standard deck, a simple way to make it easier is to trim one edge of the deck very slightly at a diagonal. It is visually impercetible, but if they make sure they turn the deck around so your card goes in backwards then the edge sticks out enough to feel. K ati e R  (talk) 12:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, the other thing that can be surprisingly effective is card forcing, which basically means the magician can make you pick a card of his choice, and lead you to think that it was your choice. That stubby article section doesn't do it justice - it can be psychological, verbal, and visual all at once. Search on google or youtube to see some good examples. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The second part (where you pick HIS card) could be done by forcing, since you are in the awkward position of trying to pick a certain card without knowing which one it it. The classic fan force would work very well in these circumstances.  He could also force the card that you picked, in which case the entire trick is really just getting you to pick the cards he wants you to.  This seems a bit too straightforward to me, though: in my experience, the "trick" to magic is usually more oblique, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was some small detail that you didn't remember that is key to understanding the trick. OldTimeNESter (talk) 19:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That's probably true. This is the part that amazed me.  Picking my card is the easy part, but knowing how (generally) card tricks work, I thought ff the card I hoped was his in my head without looking, then picked it out of the fan.  Mingmingla (talk) 16:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It is more likely he has a way to select the card you name from his pack and when he flipped over the card he substituted the card you named for it. SO it would need a marked deck and a bit of sleigh of hand. Dmcq (talk) 10:34, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Walid Shoebat
Walid Shoebat Jihadist Read Bible To Find Corruption But Found Out Bible is True - In this issue interview he speaks about his conversion to Christianity. His wife said if he read the bible and could find faults she would convert. He read it and he converted to be a Catholic not a Protestant as wikipedia states. See HeavenVisitNet Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.65.68 (talk) 21:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You probably wanted the Help Desk, but I've removed the Protestant part. It wasn't in the sources used. Neither was Catholicism. If you mean HeavenVisit.net, that's certainly not a reliable source. Neither is the YouTube channel. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * [ec] The source for the statement in the Walid Shoebat article is this CNN article, which describes him as a "convert to conservative Christianity". If you have a reliable source that states he's a Catholic, then it could be referenced in the article.  If not, I would agree with the removal of the word "Protestant" from the article as it's currently unsourced.  The article talk page (Talk:Walid Shoebat) is a better place to discuss this sort of issue. Tevildo (talk) 22:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Interesting that non-Christian people are said to convert to "Christianity". Is that even possible?  Isn't it necessary to choose a particular Christian denomination to which to convert, and be baptised according to the rites of that denomination? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  09:14, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "No" is the immediate answer to that question. See Baptism for a comprehensive treatment, but many churches consider that the use of water and the Trinitarian formula, no matter what the surrounding circumstances may be, to be sufficient, and many don't regard any ceremony at all as necessary.  There may be additional ceremonies (such as confirmation) that the believer needs to undergo before they're considered a "full member" of any particular church, but one can certainly be a "baptized Christian" before deciding which particular church to join. Tevildo (talk) 09:56, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * To also help Jack along, the article Full communion would be a good read in understanding how some Christian denominations recognize the validity of sacraments administered through other Christian denominations. Certain sacraments (such as marriage) are almost universally recognized as valid among ALL denominations, while other sacraments (such as baptism) have wide recognition, depending on the denomination.  For example with Baptism, most churches recognize baptisms performed by other denominations as valid, so long as those baptisms are performed according to the forms accepted by that denomination; for example Baptist churches do require "believers baptism" (of the age of consent) but will recognize baptisms of anyone so baptised, even if not done in a Baptist church... -- Jayron  32  17:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. What I'm getting at is: non-denominational Christianity refers to institutions, but can an individual person who is currently not a Christian at all, decide to become a non-denominational Christian, and if so, how do they go about it?  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:57, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * To be a Christian: First, they should renounce the devil and all his works, the pomps and vanity of this wicked world, and all the sinful lusts of the flesh. Secondly, they should believe all the Articles of the Christian faith.  And, thirdly, they should keep God's holy will and commandments, and walk in the same all the days of their life.  (From the BCP catechism).  However, a more meaningful question is "What do they need to do to be recognized as a Christian by X?", which will depend what X is.  Merely saying "I'm a Christian" is generally good enough for most states (whether it leads to an extra entry on a spreadsheet, or their stoning to death as an apostate, is another matter); when it comes to individual Christian churches, the answer varies considerably (see the above discussion on JW's). Tevildo (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tevildo. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:06, 4 August 2014 (UTC)