Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 February 21

= February 21 =

Identify the flags
I am trying to WP:Verify the description provided in this image. It comes from archives at the library of the University of Haifa, so it should be fairly accurate, unfortunately I am unable to independently verify this. The image is taken at the 2nd Maccabiah, on April 2, 1935 - so far so good. However the description also says "The Egyptian delegation waits for the cue to enter the stadium". Egypt has indeed participated in the 2nd Maccabiah - this is verifiable. I can't seem to identify either flag, especially not on the wikipedia List of Egyptian flags. The lower one appears to have a Cross pattée at the center so it might be part of some coat of arm (edit: it might possibly be a bird instead). The other flag appears to have a scrolls in its center with a solid background everywhere.

Any help is appreciated! -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 00:56, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * The only symbol visible to me on the light coloured flag is a fleur-de-lys, or or specifically a Fleur-de-lis in Scouting (goodness, that article needs some work). The give-away is the two stars in the left and right branches of the emblem - the ten points of these stars are said to represent the Ten Scout Laws, but seem to have been originally added so that it could be copyrighted. As all the young men in the photograph are in Scout uniform, it makes sense. Our article Egyptian Federation for Scouts and Girl Guides says that Scouting was founded in Egypt in 1914. Alansplodge (talk) 11:32, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * ah it's a Fleur-de-lis, I was looking for it in all the wrong places. That totally makes sense and would line up with the other facts! thanks. -- Cy be r XR ef ☎ 21:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Although why Egypt would be represented by some Boy Scouts remains a bit of a puzzle. Sorry, I couldn't make anything of the other flag. Alansplodge (talk) 21:33, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

A four hour bar
I was watching an Are You Being Served episode the other day (specifically "The Erotic Dreams of Mrs. Slocombe"). In it Mrs Slocombe falls in love with Mr Humphries. However when he does not appear to return her affection, she takes to drinking too much. At one stage she hasn't been around for a while, and the staff are in Mr Rumbold's office, wondering where she is. Mr Harman comes in and informs everyone that she "has been drinking at the four hour bar" next door. What is a four hour bar? I realise it must be some type of drinking establishment, but what is the significance of the "four hours"? Thanks everyone!! 59.167.253.199 (talk) 04:39, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * It refers to a four hour period where you can pay a fixed amount to drink as much as you want (possibly limited to cheap drinks or with different prizes for different drink options). An establishment may limit a four hour bar to certain times, and they may have four hour bar customers and other customers at the same time. In any case, the point in the quote must be that she goes there to drink a lot. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Wow, all-you-can-drink in a 4 hour period seems like a really bad idea, leading to alcohol poisoning, public drunkenness, drunk driving, etc. I hope they made that practice illegal by now. StuRat (talk) 06:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Please provide cites next time stu, instead of your personal opinion. Shadowjams (talk) 09:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The episode in question is here, with the "four-hour bar" line occurring at 20:47. I must say I've never heard this expression, and it's not at all obvious to me what it means, so I'm rather surprised it was included without explanation. PrimeHunter's explanation sounds reasonable, though googling doesn't seem to find anything relevant. The episode was first shown in 1981, when UK licensing hours were much more restricted than they are now, so I wonder if it could have something to do with the bar's opening hours. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 10:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah I've never heard it before either and I was thinking the same thing. At a guess it could refer to the fact that pubs used to open between 11am and 3pm at lunchtime, so a four-hour window.  Also, I wonder if it was a phrase used in the 1940s or 1950s.  Mr Harman is an older gentleman who might have been around at that time, and co-writer David Croft also penned Dad's Army, so presumably had some insight into the vernacular of the time. --Viennese Waltz 10:38, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that the term being used is actually "four-ale bar"? (Being at work I can't actually listen to the linked episode, as my work computer has no sound facility.) This was a well-known expression in the period in which the programme is set, and I believe is to be found somewhere in our article Pub. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 14:14, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Great spot, yes you're right. That's definitely what Mr Harman says, on closer listening. And see pub. --Viennese Waltz 14:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed - it's an example of L-vocalization, often found in Cockney and similar speech. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
 * See Oxford Reference - four ale. I was already drinking in London in 1981 and well remember the "public bar" where the beer was cheaper, but the furniture and the clientèle were a good deal rougher than in the adjoining "saloon bar". I have never heard it called a "four ale bar" but we live and learn. Alansplodge (talk) 18:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

It's curious whether they had a four-hour bar on the Minnow's ill-fated three-hour tour. Would explain a lot. μηδείς (talk) 02:31, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That was a sand bar. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:09, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Locker room theft. What to do?
So came back after the workout to the lockers room, the cabinet was properly locked with my lock, which wasn't broken or damaged. When I opened the the cabinet, found out that my bag was rotated 180 degrees, so the opposite pocket was in front. I rotated it back, took of my keys, smartphone and the wallet, and then I saw that the cash from wallet is missing! I checked the entire bag, it wasn't there, and I'm sure I had it there before! What I don't understand: why he didn't take credit cards and the smartphone? Why he didn't take the keys of my car and go find it to take it too? And why rotating the bag? So what can legally I do in this situation? Live in Los Angeles. In the wallet was my driver's license, so the guy could copy my address and home keys, do you think there is a risk he might want to rob my house? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.230.178.92 (talk) 05:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Contact your local law enforcement agency. Wikipedia cannot give legal advice. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Also inform the business whose locker room you were using. (Side note: Cash isn't easily tracked as a specific person's property. If they get caught with credit cards that have the wrong name or keys/phone that aren't theirs...or a stolen car, it's a much more obvious crime.) --Onorem (talk) 05:59, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Agreed, just grabbing the cash is the option with the least risk. StuRat (talk) 06:21, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Firstly, I hope it was not a lot of cash that you lost and you can put it down to experience. Lockers are only a safeguard against the opportunist thief. One should not use them to store anything else other than street cloths and the bare necessities – as you now know. Those locker keys have passed through the hands of many people. Each one had the opportunity to  have copied the key – even members of the staff of this establishment. This establishment may have security cameras in the locker room, so yes, as suggested above by Grumpy Andy, contact local law enforcement agency.  They can get the powers to view any of the recorded footage. Even if you have resined yourself to not getting the cash back, it is your duty as a citizen to report this, in the hope that other will not suffer the same or grater lose in the future. As for whether he or she (or an accomplice) might want to rob your  house. Depends on the perpetrator. They might  have not wanted to take any more time than was necessary to remove your dollars bills for fear that you would suddenly return but in this day and age, a quick snap from a camera phone, can capture the household key pattern, personal documents etc. You need to go for peace of mind and change the locks. A brake-in leaves a terrible mess.--Aspro (talk) 18:53, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Nobody puts security cameras in locker rooms as far as I know, for privacy reasons. If all that was taken was money, it's safe to assume that the person was after easy pickings and didn't want to take the risk of trying to monetize other things.  My suggestions would be (1) get a better lock; (2) don't forget to lock it (because you might have); (3) forget about the money, you'll never see it again; (4) file a police report, so that if it happens again the pattern will be apparent. Looie496 (talk) 21:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * “Nobody puts security cameras in locker rooms as far as I know, for privacy reasons.” Have you noticed the little smoked black domes in the ceiling (the camera housings)?Changing_room If not, they will be coming your way soon... look up at the ceilings. Then turn towards them, wave and smile.--Aspro (talk) 23:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * In light of the infamous Penn State situation, it would not be surprising to see more and more security cameras in "privacy" areas. The question becomes, who's watching them and what are they doing with the recordings? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

What do IT companies do in India
In India what do the IT/Computer Science people and even non IT people (like electrical, electronic, mechanical, civil) do in companies like Cognizant, Infosys, Wipro, TCS, IBM, ITC Infotech, Tech Mahindra to name a few. They get a hefty starting pay package. There is never ending stream of engineering students getting B.Tech degree. In fact lakhs of engineers pass out every year and they get campus recruitment and placement on campus that is companies come to the engineering colleges. But how do the companies afford to absorb these never ending stream of candidates and that to by offering a hefty starting pay package. what do these companies do with their old employees. What are non IT people doing in IT companies in large numbers. Also it is seen that all these candidates adopt unfair means in written end semester examinations with the tacit support of college authorities in private colleges. Given that the infrastructure for hardware practical is grossly inadequate with scarce apparatus and over emphasis on copypasting in practical notebooks with almost zero impotance to gaining knowledge. The students do the experiments in groups and the non assertive student in the group don't even get the opportunity to touch the apparatus. And one experment is done only once in life of the candidate. This is even after the college charging a hefty amount per semester. So the question is what the student learns and what work these IT companies do. 117.194.226.60 (talk) 12:54, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I added spaces after most of your punctuation. It is correct English and much easier to read that way.
 * I suggest you read Information technology in India. Indian IT companies are the "generally dominant player in the global outsourcing sector".  For example, looking at the Cognizant article, it says it has 150,000 employees with 100,000 of them based in 10 locations across India; meanwhile it earns most of its revenue from North America (77.2%) and Europe (19.2%).  This is largely the result of US and European companies hiring Cognizant for a specific service to be provided by their employees in India (who work in India for Indian wages, and therefore don't need US/European work permits).
 * I hear from Indian colleagues that the Indian IT sector is very competitive. Looking at the Infosys article, it says that in FY2012-3 the company had nearly 380,000 applications from prospective employees, and had a gross addition of ~37,000 employees.  However, the article also says the company has an attrition rate of over 16% - ie. ~25,000 employees left, I would assume to go to other companies in the same sector (either in India or elsewhere in the world).
 * Of course, there is also work for non-IT people in such companies. Engineering graduates might get taken on due to their general engineering expertiese, while less skilled people can fill non-IT roles such as secretarial support, security, facilities management, cleaning, food service, etc.
 * As to the OP's allegations of unfair means in examinations and poor standards of training, he will have to provide some reliable evidence of that.
 * Astronaut (talk) 17:13, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Karate world champion?
Dear sir's.

Could you tell me who is currently the world champion in karate ? ? ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.130.83 (talk) 23:21, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Check out 2012 World Karate Championships chop chop . Clarityfiend (talk) 23:56, 21 February 2014 (UTC)