Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 July 6

= July 6 =

Clarification of laws and rulings for Trade Secret article
I posted this in the Talk:Trade_secret last year, but have had no response. Hopefully someone here can help.


 * "I'm having trouble finding the legal precedents of possible repercussions of a person publishing a trade secret on behalf of another. This has been brought up in Scientology lawsuits and the AACS key. My understanding is that it is misappropriation of a trade secret, but the actual application of this to, say, internet publication seems undecided.


 * "The California Supreme Court appears to have ruled that it is free speech to publish the secret, but that the publication can have an injunction applied. Does that mean the publisher cannot really be prosecuted or sued? What about the Coke formula revealed in the book Big Secrets, or was that relatively free of legal action only because it was published before USTA? Are there people who can shed more light on this area of US law? )SamuelRiv (talk) 06:06, 16 March 2013 (UTC)"

Bonus points for editing the wiki page if you can point to specific court cases. Super extra bonus points if you can find if this has been addressed in other countries or in international law. Thanks for the help. SamuelRiv (talk) 02:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Vampires and the sun
According to vampire lore, if a vampire is outside in sunlight, they are killed by the sun. Is it just the sun in the solar system that does this, or would the light from another star kill a vampire? Clearly it doesn't when they are out at night on earth, but would it affect them if they were on another planet? Could a vampire go into space? And can reflected sunlight kill a vampire? Horatio Snickers (talk) 12:26, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * There are probably authors who have addressed this question in their fictions, but since each such author will have invented an answer to suit the needs of the story, I don't see how this can possibly be answered from authoritative sources. --ColinFine (talk) 13:38, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, the moon does not kill a vampire and that is reflected sun. Also, a vampire has no reflection since it cannot see itself in a mirror, so I believe it cannot be harmed by reflected sunlight. This is just my theory, of course. Here is a good Wikipedia article on Vampire literature that goes into traits of vampires in fiction. Originally, in the Dracula novel, by Bram Stoker, the vampire could walk around in sunlight, but in a weakened state. All the best,  Fylbecatulous talk 14:04, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Since vampires are fictional, each author is at liberty to come up with any set of attributes for them. These are frequently ill-thought-through, self-contradictory, etc.  You can't reason about how they work for all of those reasons.   Sunlight is just a bunch of photons with some set of energies and frequencies - whichever of those kill the vampire cannot be energies and frequencies that occur in artificial light or from fires or from creatures like fireflies.  As has already been pointed out, frequencies reflected by the moon don't harm them either - which eliminates another huge slice of the electromagnetic spectrum.  Some authors have claimed that the first rays of a rising sun suffice to save our heroine - so clearly frequencies that are strongly attenuated by our atmosphere are not to blame - and large quantities of solar energy are not required.  However, on overcast days, the cloud cover is sufficient to shield the vampire - so these dangerous frequencies are clearly attenuated  sufficiently by water vapor.


 * Consider also what it takes for photons reflected or emitted by the vampire's body to be plainly visible by the human eye - yet be absorbed by all forms of reflecting devices (vampires cannot be seen in a mirror) and be of frequency/energy levels that won't kill other vampires who happen to be standing nearby.


 * Taken together, this suggests that a highly specific frequency of light at almost any energy level is needed. So it's possible that some other solar systems would provide daytime refuge for them.


 * However, many vampire biographers claim that the vampire must sleep in a coffin lined with soil from his native transylvania. When vampires attempt to colonize other star systems, they'll need to take vast quantities of this soil with them or else their population size will be severely limited in the future.


 * Truly, it's pointless to ask serious questions about fictional entities here on the Wikipedia reference desk. SteveBaker (talk) 14:24, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Nit pick: Clouds are not water vapour, but water droplets. Water vapour is largely transparent to visible light (but not infrared). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 16:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * This is the same type of question as the now-boxed "Time travel and Jaws". Should this one likewise be boxed up? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:31, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, done. About time this go to ANI as well, should the OP revert. μηδείς (talk) 02:32, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I have removed the box as there appears to be no real consensus to box this post. I will not bow to your threat to report this. I should firstly state that this is clearly a very different question to "Time travel and Jaws", and has actually led to some interesting discussion about the nature of which light sources can inflict damage upon a vampire. By all means report this to ANI if this is what you believe is the best thing to do, but I cannot see what the problem is in using a reference desk to ask questions. Horatio Snickers (talk) 15:00, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Horatio, your question makes the assumption that vampires are the same in every work, as if they're real or something. It ends up being a matter of opinion, which is why this thread was rightfully closed.  If you had asked "are there works of vampire fiction that address these issues..." that'd be different.  But as the question is currently worded, I have to agree that it's inappropriate.  Ian.thomson (talk) 15:08, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The OP asked about vampire lore not works of fiction. Lore is traditional knowledge about nature and their culture that people get from their parents and other older people, not from books. The term is found in Old English lar "learning, what is taught, knowledge, science, doctrine, art of teaching," from Proto-Germanic *laizo (Old Saxon lera, Old Frisian lare, Middle Dutch lere, Dutch leer, Old High German lera, German Lehre "teaching, precept, doctrine". Oral tradition is the transmissison of cultural material through vocal utterance, and was long held to be a key descriptor of folklore. As an academic discipline, it refers both to a set of objects of study and a method by which they are studied—the method may be called variously "oral traditional theory", "the theory of Oral-formulaic composition" and the "Parry-Lord theory" (after two of its founders).
 * The question is about the extreme phototoxic vulnerability of the hematophageous Undead meta-person traditionally called a Vampire. The effect, as reported in fiction, exceeds Type III (aka hepatic photosensitivity) which is the most common type of photosensitivity reaction seen in animals. A link was proposed by biochemist David Dolphin between vampire folklore and the enzyme disorder Porphyria which is derived from the Greek πορφύρα, porphyra, meaning "purple pigment". The name refers to the purple discolouration of feces and urine when exposed to light in patients during an attack. Although original descriptions are attributed to Hippocrates, the disease was first explained biochemically by Felix Hoppe-Seyler in 1871 and acute porphyrias were described by the Dutch physician Barend Stokvis in 1889.
 * A Swedish police enquiry seeks information on suspected vampire activity near Sankt Eriksplan in Stockholm. It may or may not be entirely non-coincidental that Stockholm and Transylvania are in similar time zones and within bat migration range. 84.209.89.214 (talk) 22:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Orally transmitted fiction doesn't cease to be fiction. -- Jayron  32  21:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep that thought in church. 84.209.89.214 (talk) 22:30, 10 July 2014 (UTC)


 * A related question: Does the ignition effect require oxygen? If not, given that they don't breathe, perhaps vampires are well suited to work in space. —Tamfang (talk) 09:52, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Even if it doesn't require oxygen they may be useful in space as a form of monopropellant. K ati e R  (talk) 15:38, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

US state capitals: size
We know that the capital of a U.S. state isn't always the largest city with its name. One city of this kind is Springfield, Illinois. It's only the third largest Springfield in the United States. The largest is Springfield, Missouri and the second is Springfield, Massachusetts.

Is there another capital city that's not the largest city in the United States with that name?? If so, name all the largest cities in the United States with that name up to the capital city. (For Springfield, this list would be Springfield, Missouri; Springfield, Massachusetts; Springfield, Illinois.) Georgia guy (talk) 13:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That information should easily be found in Wikipedia. Get to work. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Start with List_of_capitals_in_the_United_States, and click on their names, then find the disambiguation page that will list all places with that name. Many cities have an infobox that will give census data, but smaller townships and unincorporated areas often won't have population figures on their pages. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:43, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * But dis-ambiguation pages don't compare populations of cities; they only list cities. Georgia guy (talk) 16:46, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Then click through to each city and see the population. Staecker (talk) 16:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Augusta, Georgia seems to be larger than Augusta, Maine, the capital. —Kusma (t·c) 17:25, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Let the OP (a Georgia guy, ironically) do his own homework. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:29, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, Augusta, Georgia is more than 10 times as big as Augusta, Maine. I've gone through the dis-ambiguation page and it seems that other Augustas are even smaller. Georgia guy (talk) 17:42, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And Concord, California, is more populous than Concord, New Hampshire. Deor (talk) 19:01, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I am revising the heading of this section from New question to US state capitals: size, in harmony with WP:TPOC, point 12 (Section headings). Please see Microcontent: How to Write Headlines, Page Titles, and Subject Lines.  The new heading facilitates recognition of the topic in links and watchlists and tables of contents.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 19:06, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And I posted an "anchor" to avoid breaking links. And I say again, the OP needs to research this question himself rather than expecting others to do his homework for him. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:50, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I already posted an anchor, "formerly", one of those mentioned at WP:TPOC, section 12 (Section headings).
 * —Wavelength (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Aha, something new, to me anyway. Works like an anchor except the former title is visible, right? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:44, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is right.—Wavelength (talk) 01:10, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Charleston, South Carolina is larger than Charleston, West Virginia. However, Albany, New York is slightly larger than Albany, Georgia. (Just being thorough.)  → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 15:28, 9 July 2014 (UTC)