Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 May 19

= May 19 =

Non-Politeia member
what is the meaning of the word "Non-Politeia member" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.205.162.52 (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Without some context, or even a source, it's very difficult to tell. But I guess it means "somebody who is not a member of Politeia". Searching for Politeia on Wikipedia suggests that the most plausible candidate is Politeia (think tank), but that is only a guess.
 * The phrase might also mean "member of [whatever the article is about] who is not associated with Politeia", and if it has that meaning, it might indicate another thing called Politeia. --ColinFine (talk) 17:05, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Right - "Politia" roughly means "political thinking" - and the "think tank" version of it really refers to political think tanks - so it's not a separate meaning. The other meanings are things like magazines (about political thinking) and place names.   So we're really left with:
 * Someone who is not a member of some think tank which is being discussed here. (eg "A non-politeia member stood up at the politeia meeting and yelled 'bullshit!'")
 * Someone who is a member of something else, who doesn't routinely engage in political thought. (eg "A non-politeia member of our golf club refused to discuss the US presidential election at the 10th green today").
 * I kinda doubt it's the second of those because the word "politeia" isn't commonly used these days - except to name various organizations - which strongly suggests the first meaning. We really do need some context.  Where did you see it?
 * SteveBaker (talk) 17:47, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Buying and selling on Craigslist
If a buyer and seller are transacting a sale on Craigslist, how can each party insure that the other will not rip them off? The seller will want the money first before he sends the item. The buyer will want the item first before he sends the money. So, how can this "impasse" be avoided or resolved? In this particular case, the seller does not take Pay Pal. And the transaction is on Craigslist (not eBay), therefore lacking the protections of an eBay transaction. And the parties are at great distance, making an in-person exchange impossible. Thanks. 75.44.113.200 (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * If all of the above is true, than you pretty much can't make the guarantee. One or the other of you will have to act on faith at some point.  I presume that the seller doesn't take credit.  If that were the case, you could stop payment if you didn't receive the goods.  On the other hand, you could stop the payment even if you did, and claim you didn't, so even that might not work.  Mingmingla (talk) 22:51, 19 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I am the buyer, by the way.  And I anticipate the seller saying: "send me the money first, then I will mail you the item when I receive the payment".  75.44.113.200 (talk) 00:03, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * There are escrow services around that will add a layer of safety but they will, of course, cost you. There are also a lot of escrow scams.  Dismas |(talk) 00:09, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? Can you give me an example?  How does that process work?   Thanks.   75.44.113.200 (talk) 00:32, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but we can't help you, although a lawyer might. μηδείς (talk) 01:45, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Don't be daft, Medeis. Of course we can help with all three of those questions.  None of them are asking for advice.
 * An escrow service can be contracted to take delivery of both the payment and the goods. Or just the payment.  It's described in our escrow article which I've linked to.  The process works basically like this...  Both the buyer and seller make contact with the service and agree to their terms (whatever they might be, different services may work slightly differently).  The service agrees to take the payment for the goods and do so.  Once the buyer receives the goods, the escrow service releases the money to the seller either by sending a check or deposit into a PayPal account or whatever arrangements have been made.  As I said though, the service will take a commission since their time is valuable as well.  If you'd rather avoid a dedicated service that you find on the internet, then you can contact a lawyer and ask them to do the escrow for you.  Lawyers have performed this service for ages.  They have an interest in making sure both parties are happy because their reputation and business are on the line.
 * What I can't do is make any recommendations about either a service or lawyer. For one, that is up to you to decide and I don't want to be blamed if anything goes wrong.  For two, we're not supposed to be giving advice about financial matters here.  (I'm only informing you of an option that is already available to you)  And for three, I've no experience in actually using an escrow service for this purpose.  Dismas |(talk) 02:14, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, fuck off, Dismas, your insults are tiresome and your lack of referenced advice speaks for itself. The OP needs to get a lawyer who can advise him on the law in the relative jurisdictions, or simply not take the risk if he fears the outcome but won't pat for the necessary advice. 20:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC) (Note: this was μηδείς, who somehow seems to be able to avoid Signbot when posting one of her usual valuable contributions...) Fgf10 (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh Medeis, what a prize pillock you are. It was not a request for legal advice. --Viennese Waltz 20:20, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed, a very tiresome user. I would think it about time for disciplinary measures. How would we go about that? The insult-to-actual post ratio of out esteemed Medeis has been increasing even more recently, a thing I didn't think possible! Oh and clearly not a request of legal advice. Fgf10 (talk) 20:29, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Wow, that is much too complicated!  I guess I did not make clear in my original question.  I am only talking about a low-priced item, perhaps five or ten bucks.  Certainly not enough to get an escrow service involved.  Yes, it's a small enough amount of money that I can certainly "eat" the loss (if the item never gets shipped).  But, at the same time, I don't want to get ripped off for even five or ten bucks.  And, I can't imagine the seller agreeing to release the item first with no payment in hand.  75.44.113.200 (talk) 03:37, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That's just how mail order works, unfortunately. The buyer is expected to send payment first. --Viennese Waltz 09:48, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Doesn't Craigslist put all sorts of warnings and notices on the site and in emails that it is for local purchases only, specifically to avoid these problems? I've used it plenty, but always aranged an in-person meeting with cash payment whether I was buying or selling. K ati e R  (talk) 13:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks. That makes sense if they do indeed do that.  I have never noticed it, but it would not surprise me.  Nonetheless, I am sure that some people transact over postal mail, rather than in person.  I had assumed it was more prevalent than perhaps it actually is.   75.44.113.200 (talk) 18:19, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, Katie, just as the general disclaimer does:


 * Not professional advice If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial or risk management) please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in that area.


 * Either that, or preface your non-professional made up stuff with insults like "pillock" and "daft" and feel free to spout anything. The OP has been warned, the advice here is worth less than the ink it's printed with. μηδείς (talk) 21:04, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Craigslist differs in one major way from eBay - it's a localized service. If you live here in Austin, Texas - you get the Austin version that has ads from people who live within 40 to 50 miles from you.  On ebay, you're trading with the entire English-speaking world.   On Craigslist, almost all transactions are done in person - either by going to the seller's home - or in some "neutral" location like a supermarket parking lot.   Goods are examined, cash exchanged and items transferred in a face-to-face manner.  I've bought and sold a bazillion things that way - there really isn't much scope for a rip-off.   The only real problem is if you buy something and it's faulty in some way...there are no warranties and nobody to complain to except the seller...who can be sufficiently anonymous that you're going to have a hard time getting it fixed.


 * Sometimes face-to-face transactions happen on eBay too - and sometimes a Craigslist transaction might happen by mail - but it's rare. SteveBaker (talk) 18:53, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * SteveBaker, I agree with much of what you say. However, on Craigslist, you can "pick and choose" which city you'd like to see the classified ads posted for.  So, if the buyer is looking for a "hard to find" item, the buyer essentially won't care if it's located in a city close by or in a city far away.  In the latter case, postal mail is really the only option.  75.44.113.200 (talk) 21:35, 22 May 2014 (UTC)