Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 November 23

= November 23 =

A Riddle
I need help figuring out a riddle. It's called Good Rice / Bad Rice, and you're supposed to make a pattern or find the formula that makes good rice. For example, you would say something like, "good rice, good rice, bad rice" and the person who's telling the riddle will tell you whether it's good or bad rice. You can see it being played here and here What's the formula for making good rice?

Also, does anyone know any other games like this where players are supposed to figure out the rule or secret, like the green glass door? 173.55.252.156 (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Eleusis is a card game where players have to guess the rule for the order in which cards are played. There's also the game of Scissors. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 21:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Would you say that the rules for that are eleusive? Matt Deres (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't know the name of it, if it even has one, but one game that requires figuring out the secret is what I've heard called "Get On The Bus". One player starts and chooses something that they're bringing on the bus to go on a trip. The other players can get on the bus if they are also bringing something that meets the first person's rule that they've set up in their head.  The rule could have to do with the first letter of the name of the objects, all the objects must be fruits, etc.  Each time around, the people who have already figured it out must think of something else that they are bringing.  This helps out those who haven't figured it out yet by being provided more examples.  The game ends when everyone has figured out the rule to get on the bus.  Dismas |(talk) 22:05, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * A few (some I've heard of, some I hadn't) are listed in "GamesWiki"'s category "Riddle". They have no more specific categorization there, nor could I find a name for this type of insider/outsider-riddle-thingy-game, though I think it deserves a name. ---Sluzzelin talk  22:47, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, well, thanks to Andrew, I found List of games with concealed rules. I guess that's sort of a name. ---Sluzzelin talk  22:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I used to use a game which I called "Football" to illustrate social exclusion, which was one of these games. I would describe my world, a world in which everyone played football, but not cricket or rugby. We all lived in buildings with walls and floors and rooves and doors but no carpets. To come into my world you had to ask whether something was in my world. If it was, I'd let you in, and this would continue until the last person had got it. Those who had got it were allowed to cajole the others in but not tell them what the key was. Then you would debrief around issues of exclusion. It was surprisingly effective. --TammyMoet (talk) 12:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Chess variant
Is there a chess variation wherein it's possible to capture one's own pieces? This might offer some interesting possibilities (e.g. for clearing up lines of attack) and generally make the game faster-paced. 75.4.23.83 (talk) 21:31, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The closest I found is "Recycle chess", but here you can re-introduce the pieces you capture (from yourself) to the game — the creator refers this part to bughouse chess. ---Sluzzelin talk  21:38, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Shogi, a Japanese game which has a common ancestry with (and similar rules to) Chess has exactly that rule: Opponent's pieces which are captured can be returned to play on one's own side of the board. It's a standard part of the game.  Chess players should be able to pick up Shogi quite quickly.  -- Jayron  32  02:28, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the question was more along the lines of whether there was a chess variant where, for instance, a white rook with a white pawn between it and the black king could take the white pawn, and place the black king in check. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 13:09, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * With chess variants, it's not so much a question of whether the variant "exists"...after all, by merely mentioning it here, it "exists".  The issue should be about whether the variant is played much, whether it's been analyzed and so forth - and the answer to that has to be a resounding "No!".  There are an enormous number of chess variants that have been invented - but hardly any chess variants are widely played...or even played at all!  Standard chess played under various time-limits, and (to a much lesser degree) 3D chess are probably the only ones that are played by more than a handful of people (you can buy 3D chess boards...so I assume people are playing it).  But time-limited chess isn't really a different game - and 3D chess has to be played by a tiny, tiny minority of chess players.  Contrast that with (for example) the card game Poker - and there you find that variants exist in literally dozens of very commonly played forms...in fact, there are so many variations that the people who play the game 'straight' are in the minority! SteveBaker (talk) 16:47, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * While I agree normal chess (with whatever time rules) dwarfs any variant, I question the claim 3D chess (and standard chess with different time limits) are the only chess variants played by more than a handful of players. There is or was (I'm not sure if they still exist since their web presence seems very minimal) a International Hexagonal Chess Foundation who promoted either Hexagonal chess in general, or Gliński's hexagonal chess in particular. has old contact info you can could try and use to determine if they still exist. Chess960 had world championships in the past, with the participation of people such as Viswanathan Anand,  Levon Aronian, Peter Svidler, Alexander Grischuk, Hikaru Nakamura, Peter Leko, Victor Bologan and Étienne Bacrot. The popularity was I'm sure helped by the inventor and it's possibly waning but it seems that it's probably still somewhat popular (and for that matter, well known enough that there are also many chess players even critics of the modern game who strongly dislike it). Even current world champion Magnus Carlsen has played at least 3 games  . BTW that makes it clear Internet Chess Club supports chess960, you can see some of the best players here  (last list), they also support some other variants . Free Internet Chess Server does to as do other online chess servers and services . I suspect a read of a book like The Classified Encyclopedia of Chess Variants (or the older The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants by David Pritchard (chess player)) or perhaps the The Chess Variant Pages website  will also suggest that 3D chess in any form isn't the only popular variant by far. In fact, if  is correct, it doesn't look like Popular Chess Variants even included any in the 20. Well I don't know enough to recognise most of the names, but none of them seem to be any of the popular 3D chess variants and 20 is a little misleading since it sounds like it includes Xiangqi and Shogi which while very popular (and there are others you could add here like Janggi and Makruk), I'm presuming you weren't referring to since it isn't really accurate to call them variants, more related games or games in the same family. (And also note in that list, but you also have stuff like Arimaa.) Per that list, it also doesn't include chess960, perhaps not surprising considering when it was writen (not long after chess960 was first introduced). Also what variant of Three-dimensional chess are you referring to? Raumschach? Star Trek Tri-Dimensional Chess (which probably itself has many variants since the rules only came after the set although it sounds like one is the most popular)? If you mean the later, I can't help thinking  is right, namely that while Star Trek 3D chess may be famous, it's not necessarily that popular and since the chess variants site seems to have minimal updating since around 2005~2006, it looks like they weren't even thinking of The Big Bang Theory. I suspect many people who own a set have played it very little, if at all. (That probably applies to normal chess too, but I suspect less so for the other chess variants which use a different board.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Surprisingly, nobody has linked our article Chess variant. Also, @SteveBaker, variants known as Makruk in Thai and Ouk Chatrang in Khmer are played by millions of people (i.e. slightly more than "a handful") in Southeast Asia.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 02:16, 27 November 2014 (UTC)