Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 April 29

= April 29 =

Tectonic plates
Western Europe and the East Coast of the U.S. are not near the edge of the plate tectonics. Does that explain why house prices are somewhat high there? Because they are unlikely to crumble? Are houses nearer to tectonic plates generally cheaper? Jartgina (talk) 01:41, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I think your reasoning is flawed for a couple different reasons. First, not only are there expensive homes but also very poor neighborhoods.  New York City is an example of this.  Second, house prices are based on so very many things that, if anyone even considered plate tectonics, this would be only one consideration amongst many.  And finally, Western Europe and the Eastern US are littered with port cities which would supply large land masses.  There's a lot of wealth there which has a tendency to raise land prices.  Dismas |(talk) 01:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Beware of anyone attempting to sell you a split-level house in San Franscisco. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:22, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Someone should mention that most of Italy is an earthquake zone (see: List of earthquakes in Italy). There are other parts of Europe that are also earthquake-prone. In contrast, there are very few earthquakes in sub-Saharan Africa, but I don't see housing prices going through the roof (so to speak) there. --Xuxl (talk) 09:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * No: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Japan. μηδείς (talk) 02:42, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * As Dismas said, housing prices are effected by too many factors for plate tectonics to "explain" the high prices of real-estate in (parts) or Western Europe and Eastern USA; and Medeis has pointed out some obvious exceptions to the proposed "rule". That said, earthquake risk does have some effect:
 * This paper about land prices in Tokyo finds, "the price of the riskiest areas is discounted against that of the safest by around 8%"
 * This paper did a similar analysis for San Francisco Bay area and found that people paid 3.7% more for houses outside the risk-area.
 * Interestingly, recent earthquakes in the area make people more aware of and sensitive to the risk, for example the above paper shows that housing prices fell in Bay area by 2% following the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake quake, although this effect soon wears-off (yay, forgetfulness! :) )
 * Abecedare (talk) 02:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I would expect that recent earthquakes would also affect values in that people would be afraid houses in those zones had hidden damage. StuRat (talk) 03:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Oil field
Is it plausible that an oil field twice the size of Ghawar Field can be discovered? What about a gas field twice the size of South Pas? Jartgina (talk) 02:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know the answer. However, if you're asking because a spam email has told you about an "investment opportunity" then I'd save your money. --88.108.229.196 (talk) 07:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Plausible, in that it could happen, just extremely unlikely. A very underexplored area (and there's few of those around these days) such as the Arctic is the most likely location for supergiant discoveries. Mikenorton (talk) 08:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * But the Amazon is very unexplored isn't it? Jartgina (talk) 19:12, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, these days it isn't inaccessible. Personal speculation – it's possible that various oil companies have explored some, most or all of the Amazon basin for evidence of oil deposits, but such explorations would likely be effectively secret since (a) they might not have formal permission from the governments of the countries involved and (b) they would want to avoid tipping off their commercial rivals. Is there a Petrogeologist in the house? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 13:07, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, but oil prospecting isn't about finding some random point on the surface of the earth and drilling a hole to see if there's oil down there. Rather, they look at the surrounding geology and only drill in places where oil is likely to be found.  So if the amazon is indeed unexplored to the degree you imagine - then perhaps that's because they already looked at the geology using aerial photography and satellite imagery and decided there was nothing useful to be found there.  Our article on Hydrocarbon exploration says that you can get information from gravitational and magnetic information (which can be done from orbit).  However, I doubt your premise...a Google search using "oil and gas exploration in the amazon" turns up a LOT of information about people who are aggressively doing just that. THIS IMAGE suggests that a large portion of the Amazon has either already been explored and is in the production phase.  SteveBaker (talk) 13:04, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Portable Royal
What is the value of my Royal portable with case Serial # CD-2353 43  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.92.230 (talk) 03:56, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Probably around $80 to $100.


 * These are not particularly rare - and although typewriters are almost completely obsolete, people tend to hang on to them...and the good ones last for a very long time, so the popular kinds are easy to find. The Royal Portable is a classic of its kind - but it was insanely popular - so there are a LOT of them out there.


 * Looking at what people are selling them for on eBay kinda gives you an upper limit on "value" - but remember that they might not be selling at the asked price, so the value might be less. But if there are more than one or two on sale at around the same price, the value can't reasonably be more than that.  A quick search turns up perhaps one to two hundred Royal portables on sale on the USA eBay right now...some Royal portable typewriters are on offer at "Buy it now" prices of $29.99...most are up around $60...some 1930's era models are on offer at $150 - which seems to be the most that people pay for mass-produced typewriters.


 * This web page says that your serial number of "CD" followed by six digits is a 1943 "Companion" model. Those seem to be selling on eBay for around $100 in various states of condition (stuck keys, chipped paint, worn keys or case and missing or dried out ribbon are all negatives).  But, as I said, that's the ASKING price...what they are actually selling for could easily be less...and the ones that are actually up for auction seem to have zero bidders - so the real price is perhaps much less. Maybe if yours is in utterly pristine condition, you might get a little more.  SteveBaker (talk) 05:10, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You can go to 'completed listings' and find out what they actually sold for. --Viennese Waltz 05:40, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I believe that a Portable Royal is currently produced in Viennese Waltz´s capital city of London. The makers seem to be Middleton & Windsor.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Unless you're desperate for money, you should hang onto it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Why? On what basis are you saying that?  It's unlikely that other owners will throw their typewriters into the trash - because they are probably worth $100.  These machines are unlikely to get a lot of use, so solid machines like this one probably won't wear out or break for centuries to come.  A typewriter left in it's case at the back of someones closet will remain in pretty much the same condition it's in now.


 * Hence the number and quality of these machines is likely to stay the same for a very long time. Judging by the lack of bids for them on eBay, there is not a strong demand for them - and I doubt that the number of fanatical typewriter collectors will increase significantly over the coming decades.  The number of hold-outs who still like to type on a real typewriter rather than use a word-processing program will undoubtedly decrease over time as those people die off.


 * So it seems like supply will be more or less flat and demand will probably decline slightly - which suggests that prices will, at best, be flat for the forseeable future.  The only reason not to sell it is if you rather like having it around.  If it's worth more than $100 to you as an ornament or a conversation piece - then keep it, but otherwise, it's taking up space that could be occupied by something you actually need that costs $100.  SteveBaker (talk) 01:16, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It's always good to have a low-tech backup for contingency. That's assuming it's a manual. If it's electric, that limits your options. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:44, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
 * But without all of the infrastructure that went around with typewriters (fresh ribbons, carbon paper, white-out, a pool of typists in a nearby office, a tolerance for fixed-pitch fonts, a nice fat dictionary sitting on your desk), this is going to become increasingly difficult...and as time goes on, people will become more and more dependent on the ability to edit and polish their work. In the era of typewriters, you'd make notes about what you were going to write - organize your thoughts - outline like crazy.  When you had it all in order, you'd type out a good copy.  These days, we're encouraged to get our thoughts into the computer at the outset - then cut, paste, polish until the work is finished.  Furthermore, a finished work has to DO something - you want to email it, post it online, Tweet, Facebook or Google+ it.  It is increasingly difficult to live with typewriter - and it just isn't a "backup" anymore.  At any rate, to return to our OP's dilemma - I don't think enough people will agree with you on the absolute necessity of owning a typewriter as a "backup" to make a dent in the price of a 1940's machine.  Maybe just keep a pencil or two in a drawer someplace.  It's ridiculous to claim that prices will increase beyond inflation without any evidence - because logic says not. SteveBaker (talk) 02:48, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Franchise Start-up
I am looking to open a branch of a local food and drink franchise, but am not clear on how the pricing for doing so would work, how much I would need to put in up front, what they offer and when. As this affects how long I will need to save up for, it is something I need to have clear now, but yet their website is vague on the issue. From the look of things, they seem to be asking me to pick any amount to offer, or possibly to request from them (the phrasing is unclear on this point), and judge my request based on that, which is less than ideal, and until I have more information to go on, cannot even begin to plan, or even decide whether to go through with this or not. Since their website is also somewhat lacking contact information, aside from the standard application form, I will need to ask others that may know their way around the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.231.154 (talk) 10:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry I don't have an actual answer but you really need to contact the franchiser. All major franchisers will have processes to help people open franchises. They should be able to give specifics when they have specifics from you, which will certainly differ by state and country and probably will by size and location of what you are intending to open. -- Q Chris (talk) 11:23, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Start here: Franchising and specifically Franchising. The franchisor would expect you to have a Business_plan (not the greatest article) as well as done Market_research. From this you should know how much you need for premises, salaries and wages, stock, utilities, etc. and what sort of income you can expect to generate. If you have a viable plan the franchisor will be more inclined to hear you out. It's important to note that any assistance (financial, training, branding, advertizing, etc.) you receive will have to be paid back. Obviously the more of your own money you have up front the better. 196.213.35.146 (talk) 13:25, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * 82.132.231.154, please do be aware that Wikipedia cannot give you legal advice.
 * Please see Note: Legal or medical advice is prohibited and Wikipedia's legal disclaimer.
 * Thank you. --Shirt58 (talk) 13:50, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * You do, however, need legal advice. Franchise contracts are negotiable, although stronger franchisors, such as McDonald's, will give franchisees little leeway.  Franchisors that are not in such a strong position tend to be more flexible.  You should talk to a lawyer who is experienced with franchise contracts.  John M Baker (talk) 14:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Them not being able or willing to give you clear info on the price is a red flag. Most businesses are quite happy to help you give them money (it's after you pay the money where they lose interest in you).  But a business which won't even help you at this stage can't be expected to help you later, either.  I'd look for another company. StuRat (talk) 21:03, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * There are other things to consider too...some franchises will dictate prices - there were horrendous outcries a couple of years ago when McDonalds did a "Back to the 1960's" promotion where the prices went back to what they were in 1960 and the franchisees simply had to suck it up and make less profit for a while - they were furious at having this offer imposed upon them. Other franchises have small print that requires you to buy things like napkins, soda straws and paper cups from them - often at prices far higher than the going rate for plain or white or brown napkins or the free or steeply discounted cups obtained from the soda manufacturers with their logo on them.  You'll want to know whether they are allowed to jack the prices of those products up whenever they feel like it - or suddenly dictate a design change that requires you do discard whatever stocks of those things you have.  There are a large number of possibly unreasonable demands they may be empowered to impose upon you in the name of maintaining the brand image.  Another question is about no-compete clauses...a local Subway sandwich store near us was always packed with customers at lunchtimes...until a big WalMart opened up about 100 yards away with a Subway store right inside by the entrance.  Their customer volume collapsed literally overnight and now they are competing against an identical product being sold in a more convenient location and at prices they aren't contractually allowed to beat.  That's an almost untenable position.


 * So, are there rules about the franchiser offering new outlets within some specified distance of yours? Are there limits on the prices they can charge you for supplies?  Must you offer every cut-price deal they advertise?  That's just scratching the surface.  You should be armed with a TON of carefully thought-through questions before you start talking to them.  You really need to do your homework if you intend to go into this.


 * Could you possibly try to meet with someone else who owns and operates a franchise from that same company? That might be the best way to understand what the sticking points are.  SteveBaker (talk) 01:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * However, note that to the customer, it's genuinely annoying having every site of a franchise chain have different prices, menu items, sizes of the items, etc. They feel incredibly ripped-off if they get half the food at twice the price at one location, and as the franchise owner, you can expect endless complaints and little repeat business.


 * Also, the company offering the franchise probably doesn't want their franchisees to go out of business, although it is possible to have a chain that makes it's money solely from selling franchises and then driving them out of business, but I wouldn't expect such a predatory strategy to last long.


 * I'd suggest looking at the failure rate and average profitability of other franchisees in the chain, preferably not taking the word of the company trying to sell you the franchises. Talking to other owners of that franchise to see how they have been treated is also a good idea. StuRat (talk) 18:59, 1 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I've already mentioned that the Ref Desk is not for legal advice. I will tell you something for free, in the way of an anecdote: when I was at law school, and we started on this topic in contract law, the lecturer said:
 * There's a saying that "whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad", but for our purposes that should be "whom the gods would destroy, they first give bad franchise opportunities".
 * Can someone hat this please?--Shirt58 (talk) 05:03, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * And fix it if I did this wrong? --Shirt58 (talk) 08:51, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Bluetooth Car Stereo Problem
For reference: When I rented a car a few months ago, I paired the stereo to my phone. It loaded the music library on my phone and the stereo would play music from my phone whenever I started the engine and the stereo started up.

So... I bought a bluetooth stereo for my car. It is all hooked up. However, I cannot play music FROM the stereo. I can make all sounds from my phone echo through the stereo. I can play music on the phone and hear it through the stereo. However, I cannot simply sit in the car, start the engine, and start listening to the music. I have to take my phone out, start playing the music on the phone, and then hear it.

I asked the sales guy about it. He said that bluetooth doesn't work that way. You have to play the music by using the phone and you hear it on the stereo. I asked on StackExchange. They assumed that I was lying because there is no way that a stereo could tell a phone to start playing music. I know that it can work because it did work in the rental.

Related: When I plug in my phone to my computer using a USB cable, it asks me to choose a connection mode. One mode lets me search through the files using the computer. Another mode requires me to select files on the phone and "throw" them to the computer. Another mode makes a window on the computer (as long as I have the software running) that makes the phone look like a desktop device. So, I figure that I have somehow set my phone's bluetooth to "only play the audio from the phone, but don't let the other device control the phone" mode. I can't figure out where in the cryptic settings screens to find this setting and fix it.

So... other than repeating the sales guy and StackExchange and telling me that I'm lying about how it worked before, does anyone have any suggestions for making this work the way it did before? 209.149.115.179 (talk) 14:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * External Bluetooth devices can indeed control phones, even the cheap bluetooth speakers often have this facility, but it is possible that it is not implemented in the player that you bought. Does the car player control the volume and "next track" functions?  Have you checked the specifications?    D b f i r s   14:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Some car stereos have built-in "apps" that allow you to control the music player - these are usually for iPhone devices. My car stereo has a Pandora "app" through Android that allows me to switch stations, like or dislike songs, etc.  When I play music directly through the phone's music app, I need to start the app on the phone myself.  I also have to start Pandora on my phone if it's not already running.  You may want to check the manual for compatibility with your phone.  Justin15w (talk) 15:18, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I thought I might need an app (I didn't when I used the rental - it just worked). I read the instructions for the radio, searched the Kenwood website, and all I find is that they have apps to make USB connected phones work with the radio controls. It states that BT connected phones should just work - but for me, it doesn't. I also found out that by default the BT connection will only use the front speakers. I had to go into radio settings to make it use all four speakers. 209.149.115.179 (talk) 19:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Formating an English Address
I need help with formatting an english adress to which i need to order a set of books. I am not english myself, so i may not be familar with the adressing scheme. The adress is formated in the following way.
 * Mr. XY
 * 1A The Road
 * Something, Suite 2222
 * Village, Middlesex
 * TW1 1DG

I now have to fill it into the following fields:


 * Postcode - This is "TW1 1DG"
 * Building Name - "Something, Suite 2222"
 * Building number - "1A"
 * Adress - "The Road"
 * Town/City - Seems to be "Village"
 * County - "Middlesex"

Is this somehow right? I don't exactly know where i am supposed to put the suite number. Adivce would be greatly appreciated. --193.170.229.238 (talk) 15:28, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I would put the suite number in the Building Name field (most online address forms are rubbish for people who live in flats). And yes, "Village" in the Town field. DuncanHill (talk) 15:46, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree with DuncanHill, but I'd add that the specific location in the building should come before the address of it. English addresses go from most specific to least, so we start with the person's name and end with the county, followed by postcode, which is a Jonny-come-lately, there to help machines. --Dweller (talk) 16:11, 29 April 2015 (UTC) Ooh look, a redlink. --Dweller (talk) 16:11, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * So, the address would be:
 * Mr. XY
 * Suite 2222, Something
 * 1A The Road
 * Village, Middlesex
 * TW1 1DG
 * Note that I've also reversed the order of the room number and building name. and the redlink is now blue --Dweller (talk) 16:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Actually "Mr." is an Americanism. It should be "Mr" without a full-stop. The Americans seem to think there are more letters after the "r" that are being abbreviated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.44.170.143 (talk) 14:35, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with Dweller, but add that the town and the county normally go on separate lines, with the town in capitals -
 * Mr. XY
 * Suite 2222, Something
 * 1A The Road
 * VILLAGE
 * Middlesex
 * TW1 1DG


 * And yes, as noted below the county is no longer required by the Royal Mail, but most online address forms shew little regard for post office preferred formats. DuncanHill (talk) 17:45, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: The postal service does not require most of this data; it's usually possible to route a letter correctly using only building number (and everything more specific than that) plus postcode. Obviously the road and the name of the town are helpful. Postal regions don't align well with counties, and there is no requirement to put a county on a letter. The county of Middlesex has not existed for 50 years; its use in postal addresses is an affectation. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:16, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Though Middlesex was a postal county until 1996, and some businesses still include postal counties in their addresses. Marco polo (talk) 17:22, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Royal Mail's postcode finder will give you a list of valid (and correctly formatted) addresses for a given postcode. The list for TW1 1DG gives a mixture of plain street numbers (presumably residential addresses) and company names & addresses. Spooky coincidence: I used to deliver letters to that very street when working on the Christmas post from the Twickenham sorting office many years ago. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:22, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * (ec)That's right.  You only need to etch your door number and postcode on valuables.   But these counties still exist.   Even after the 1964 reorganisation there were still telephone directories for Outer London:  South - East Essex, Outer London:  North - East Kent and Middlesex.   Here's one for you:  does MCC signify the Marylebone Cricket Club or the Middlesex County Cricket Club?   And yes, Essex still play at Ilford.
 * Common mistake. MCC and MCCC. The confusion is made worse by the fact that MCCC are tenants of the MCC. --Dweller (talk) 13:01, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Think DuncanHill has got the format right (except forgetting to add UNITED KINGDOM in caps). There are a lot of  Business Centres in that part of  Twickenham, thus a lot of suites. This may be the Access Business Center at 1A Rugby Road. In which case that would be the building address. You also need to add UNITED KINgDOM. Yet the OP asks about filling 'fields'. This sounds like its in an  Business Centre so the fields would be something like:
 * Postcode - TW1 1DG
 * Building Name - leave blank (unless you know its the Access Business Center), (there is only one BS at 1A)
 * Building number - Suite 2222
 * Address – 1A Rugby Road
 * Town/City - Twickenham
 * County - "Middlesex"
 * UNITED KINGDOM (in caps)
 * To be doubly sure: Email 'them' to say your ordering from abroad and need to know what their ruddy address is! --Aspro (talk) 20:51, 29 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Or even email the shipping company asking them why the hell they can't accept addresses in post office format! He knows their address, it's the sodding shippers who don't know how addresses work. DuncanHill (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Falsehoods programmers believe about addresses. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 23:03, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * To clarify, whatever else you do always make sure that the postcode is by itself on the last line of the address. 156.61.250.250 (talk) 11:09, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I note the OP is posting from Austria.  I would guess (although I don't know) that in that case the last two lines of the address would read


 * TW1 1DG
 * UNITED KINGDOM

156.61.250.250 (talk) 11:17, 30 April 2015 (UTC)


 * The reason why the first 'entry' field is the post code, is because some sites try and make it easier by then displaying a drop-down menu of all the streets in that post code, so that all you have to do is click on the right street and all the other fields get automatically filled in for you -without anymore typing. Fine, 'if' the site happens to have on its database all that info for that country. This one obviously doesn't. On saving the field address window -its proper address format should then appear as if by magic. The post code and country should then appear last. Try it. Watch to see and make sure that it does not commit you to confirming your order before this however. It should only ask that later but I haven't used this site so I don't know about this one. If they do want confirmation of order first and before the address, then do as Duncan suggest and email them with some feed back saying that their site is not fit for purpose when ordering from overseas. Might mention to, that it has been queried on Wikipedia. --Aspro (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)