Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 August 25

= August 25 =

Why are human stools so offensive?
In comparison to other mammals, why are human droppings so offensive. Rabbit pellets leave virtually no odour. Horse droppings whilst larger are relatively benign and not stink out. Same with sheep and cow faeces.

Yet, human stools smell the worst, far higher up the ick and gross factor than any of the mentioned above. I mean, just try getting dog (or human) crap off your shoes compared to say sheep droppings. I was even reading about farmers using sewage fertilise their fields and a whole town had to practically wear clips on their nose. Sure normal farm muck spreading is bad, but there's like no comparison. And, as a vegetarian (not quite a herbivore but still) the stuff is still far, far more foul than say horse droppings.

So what gives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.198.8.129 (talk) 12:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm just making a WAG, but your non-smelly examples are all prey species, who want to avoid being noticed. Humans and dogs are predators, so that's not as much of a concern. Clarityfiend (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Might be also that predators have territories and borders and land ownership and such, and use them as landmarks. Akseli9 (talk) 13:50, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has an article titled disgust. It has a lot of good information which may help answer the question.  -- Jayron 32 13:23, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Surely it depends what the mammal ingests at the other end. Horses and rabbits tend to eat grass and other plants. Carnivorous or omnivorous mammals generally have foul smelling droppings; does anyone think that pig dung is "relatively benign"? Alansplodge (talk) 17:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Aye, blame protein. Breaks down into methanethiol, indole, skatole and hydrogen sulfide. Partially explained in "Beans, Beans, the Musical Fruit". InedibleHulk (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Some rabbit shit does stink, but they eat that stuff and just leave the "pellets" for us to smell, which are almost entirely fiber. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Two articles in Wikipedia (feces and human feces) briefly touch upon the topic of the offensive odor of feces for both humans and other animals. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

How much to tip at Michelin-starred restaurant in NYC?
I'll be visiting NYC in the coming weeks and heard from colleagues that the average tip at a sit-down restaurant is 20% of the bill either pre or post-tax. How much should one tip at a high-end Michelin-starred restaurant when dining with 2 people? Whether it be one or three-starred, would it be appropriate to continue tipping 20%? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 13:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * A 15 to 20% tip is standard in all restaurants in the U.S., as the wait staff receive lower wages than would be normal because a large percentage of their income comes from tips. This percentage does not vary whether the restaurant is a local diner or a three-star fancy place. The only difference is that some of the higher-priced establishments may already include a service charge on the bill (it will be clearly identified if that is the case). See Gratuity --Xuxl (talk) 14:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I basically agree with Xuxl, though I would say I am more likely to tip at 20% or higher in a low-end restaurant because workers in those restaurants earn much less in tips (and wages) than workers in high-end restaurants. If anything, my tipping percentage falls as the total bill rises, though it is expected that you will tip at least 15%, and probably a little more, for acceptable service.  Look at it this way:  A 20% tip on a $10 meal is just $2.  On a $100 meal, a 16% tip is a much more generous $16.  A 20% tip would be $20.  Did the waiter at the $100 restaurant offer service that was worth 10 times as much as the service offered by the waiter at the $10 restaurant?  I doubt it.  For that reason, I think it is okay to tip a little more modestly at high-end places.  At less expensive places, you might consider exceeding 20%.  Marco polo (talk) 15:19, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Waiters won't agree with you. They indeed provide a top-class service that not many of their colleagues are capable who work in cheaper restaurants, and that's why they could apply in the first place for the job in such a demanding restaurant. They receive big tips from rich people, and they think they deserve it and rich people agree that they give big tips to top-class waiters and that's the reason why they prefer to eat there, because the food is good and because the waiters are topclass. Akseli9 (talk) 15:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll echo what Akseli9 said. Restaurants that can command higher prices generally do so because the quality of service follows the quality of the food.  (Where that is not the case, one can certainly adjust the tip amount to reflect service that exceeds – or falls short of – expectations.)  But that's not the only consideration.
 * Higher-end restaurants that can charge much more per plate also tend to have more staff per diner. That is, each waiter is taking care of fewer tables and fewer customers, and so receives fewer individual tips.  A cheap-and-cheerful chain restaurant can run through an appetizer and main and flip a table every hour; the waiter could get tipped on three consecutive checks for one table during the dinner service.  Dinner at a fine-dining establishment serving a more relaxed meal (or a tasting menu) of three or more courses might run two or three hours; the waiter is lucky to get two checks from one table during the night and may only see one.  I'll leave aside the 'tipping out' costs associated with sharing tips with a proportionally larger back-of-house staff.
 * So...if the fine-dining waiter has half as many tables to serve, and turns those tables over one-third as often...to make the same amount in tips the fine-dining waiter needs to receive at least six times as much per tip just to break even with the cheap-restaurant waiter. And Marco Polo wants to knock the fine-dining waiter's tips down another 25% (from 20% to 15%)?  Ouch.  TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Just to confirm what all of the above have said; IF a restaurant is an upper echelon restaurant, the tip should STILL be the same percentage for several reasons 1) waiters at better restaurants are better trained, more experienced, and provide better service than those at your typical family restaurant. My brother works at such a restaurant (like $100 for a steak and lobster dinner sort of place) and they have very high standards for their waitstaff; he had over 15 years waiting experience before he got that job, and they wouldn't even look at applicants without at least 10 years waiting and with impeccable references.  2) Higher end restaurants have more waitstaff to pay out of tips for.  Your average diner has a waitress with 5-6 tables she's responsible for, and she does it all herself.  At a higher-end restaurant, there are less tables per waiter, and those restaurants also have non-table waitstaff, including food-runners, the guy who fills your water glass, a sommelier, bartenders, hostesses, etc. etc.  Guess what, they also get paid a cut of the tips as well.  When you short a waiter or waitress at a cheapo diner, you only short one person.  When you short the waitstaff at a higher-end restaurant, you're screwing a whole bunch of people over.  Now, that DOESN'T mean that you shouldn't alter your tip based on the level of service you receive (that is, if the wait staff does a bad job at an expensive steakhouse, you should lower your percentage accordingly), but good service should ALWAYS be met with the same percentage of tip regardless of how much the meal costs; largely because the more expensive restaurants ALSO provide more service and better service.  -- Jayron 32 16:31, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Americans disagree about tipping, and I'd rather agree to disagree. Of course, there is no harm done, except to your own wallet, if you want to tip 30% on a $300 check.  Feel free.  As for myself, I adhere to the convention that the tip should be no less than 15% for acceptable service. In practice, I never let it drop fully to 15%, since that is at the lower limit of what is expected. So I would tip something like $50 on a $300 table for two at a high-end place.  I agree that the waiter at the high-end place can't wait as many tables per hour and that he has to share his tips.  Still, tipping $60 on that $300 table seems wildly disproportionate if my 20% tip for good service at a $50 table for two at a restaurant with a kitchen that is not an assembly line yields the waiter (and the busboy and other staff) just $10.  The ratio of staff to table-hour at the high-end place is nowhere near six times the ratio at the decent but reasonably priced place.  At most the ratio is three times as large, which results in twice the pay per person, averaged across the (experienced) waiter and the Mexican busboy whose tiny share of the tip is not much greater in dollar terms than at the cheaper restaurant (meaning that the waiter probably gets at least 3 times as much).  Really rich people can do as they please, but I don't like that kind of income inequality, and I think it is perfectly reasonable for me or anyone else to use a sliding scale when tipping.  Marco polo (talk) 17:29, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No one ever claimed that you should tip 30%. Your objection noted immediately above is the first time anyone ever mentioned that number.  The standard is always 15-20%, based on level of service.  The expectation is that 15% would be for minimal service, and 20% for high quality service.  $50 on a $300 dinner would be exactly what was expected, no more, no less, and would be perfect.  However, to tip ONLY $45 on a $300 dollar dinner at one restaurant, and then tip, say, $20 for a $100 dinner at another for the same level of service would be wrong, given equal levels of service, one should tip the same %, regardless of the amount spent on the food itself.  -- Jayron 32 18:41, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * If you'd like some references rather than opinion, see Gratuity, the Emily Post institute guides to tipping, Fair_Labor_Standards_Act (see fact sheet here - it is legal to a pay a server $2.13 per hour in most states (including NY), provided that they earn $30/month in tips), and finally wage theft (e.g. here for how it's done to servers , ).
 * But - there is a way out of this confusing and unfair nonsense - go to a restaurant that doesn't allow tips! See e.g. here for a few examples in NYC . That way, you'll be supporting a business that actually pays its employees fair and living wages. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * However, based on the second source, it's very possible that these two restaurants are the only ones in New York to disallow tips. So this isn't really a feasible approach to take in general. -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:40, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed. However, similar "no-tip" restaurants are beginning to appear around the country: Chicago, San Francisco, Austin, Philedelphia, just to name a few I know of, and I thought OP an other readers would like to know that such establishments may be available for their patronage. Here's a few other articles about the rise of no-tip restaurants, one suggesting that we may see many more in the near future, influenced in part by changes and increases in local minimum wage - .  SemanticMantis (talk) 14:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * While feeding your staff a decent wage seems a good idea, even these examples (at least the original NYC one, didn't read the later article) seem to show how ingrained tipping is, since rather than simply having listed prices sufficient to cover this decent wage, they still have a surcharge. Nil Einne (talk) 05:37, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, at least a surcharge is clear and doesn't depend on weird subjective social norms and evaluation of service (e.g. some people will reward a chatty/friendly server with a good tip, other people hate that). The places I've been to just have a simple price list and a big "no tips accepted" sign (shout out to Black Star in Austin [www.blackstar.coop/] :) SemanticMantis (talk) 17:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I would point out that my tipping practices are entirely in line with the 15-20% range mentioned in the linked Emily Post article, except that I will sometimes exceed that range in restaurants with table service and low prices. I'm not sure I understand the source of the vitriol if I choose to give a 30% tip at the family-owned Thai restaurant where family members give great service and work long hours below minimum wage while I give a tip of just 16% (with a dollar value several times greater than my tip at the Thai place) at the Chez Grand Argent.  Marco polo (talk) 15:23, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no vitriol over increasing your tip. Actually there's no vitriol at all.  You're invited to, and allowed to, and to be commended for, tipping as high as you want; just don't lower your tip below the 15-20% range.  -- Jayron 32 15:26, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * In France, it is now officially since many years tips are not required anymore, alas, tradition is too strong and you still need to give a tip, otherwise you would look stingy. It is such a relief for me when I eat in a restaurant in Germany or in Finland, where tips don't exist and would be considered as offensive as corruption. Akseli9 (talk) 15:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For some reason, this topic seems to bring very extensive responses whenever it comes up. Link to previous discussion on this subject. --Viennese Waltz 08:09, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Source for patches
HI. I HOPE YOU CAN HELP ME. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW I COULD GET (BUY)  SOME  OF THESE PATCHES? I WAS IN FT. RIELEY -- 8TH INFENTRY REGIMENT IST DIV. WITH A FEW OF MY FRIENDS IN 1959 AND WE LIKE TO GET THE PATCH. PLEASE ANSWER ME ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. E-MAIL-- 

THANK YOU, JOHN P. THIS WAS MY OUTFIT MARCH 1959 ( 2ND PLT., CO. A, 2ND BG, 8TH INFENTRY, 1ST DIV. FORT RILEY KANSAS  The 8th Infantry Regiment of the United States, also known as the "Fighting Eagles,"[1] is an infantry regiment in the United States Army. The 8th Infantry participated in the Mexican War,American Civil War, World War I, World War II, Vietnam War and Iraq Campaign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:31DA:7570:A4F0:7909:FD9D:FD1A (talk) 13:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I have added a section title, reformatted the question, and redacted the email address to protect you from spam. But there is no way of answering, because the question does not say what type of patch you are looking for.  Probably you tried to include a picture with your question, but it didn't work. Looie496 (talk) 14:31, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * We have an article on 8th_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States), which shows a coat of arms and an insignia. Here are various sellers that offer an 8th infantry patch. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:51, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Being sent edited pages
I have been receiving notices (messages) claiming I had tried to edit two or more articles and I have never done this. I just use what I read as a tool to guide me through my book writing. I do not edit or would even know how to edit anything on Wikipedia. Please notify whom is the one responsible for misleading those in the two cases. Thank you, Heather — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.201.189 (talk) 15:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Heather. I expect that the notices are intended for another editor using the same IP address (though not 71.50.201.189).  You probably have an internet connection that assigns a different address each time you use it, and the address you have today will have been used by someone else yesterday.  You can avoid these unwanted messages by creating an account.    D b f i r s   16:01, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

You can see the edits made via your IP address here:. Of course, if you choose to register an account, it costs nothing, takes very little time and brings a number of advantages, so come on in, the water's lovely! --Dweller (talk) 15:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)